[GoldenSound]

@GoldenSound i wanted to ask a curiosity of mine:

when taking measurements with equipment such as the Audio Analyzer APx555, is it possible that the household electricity (cleaner or more polluted) influences the measurements or does it not change anything on the result?

Thank you!

I've unfortunately not really had the chance to check.

The power here is quite clean anyway, and I don't currently have a method of generating consistently 'dirty' mains power.
I run my measurement setup on an AudioQuest Niagara 3000 though so all the stuff I test should not be influenced by mains noise even if they otherwise could be.

 

[stemiki]

I've unfortunately not really had the chance to check.

The power here is quite clean anyway, and I don't currently have a method of generating consistently 'dirty' mains power.
I run my measurement setup on an AudioQuest Niagara 3000 though so all the stuff I test should not be influenced by mains noise even if they otherwise could be.

Thanks for your kind reply.

However, my question was not posed to question your measurements.

I wanted to understand if in general the measurements that are published in various magazines, specialized sites or by the manufacturers themselves can have different results due to the current that powers the measured object and also the instrument itself if it works with Alternating Current.

This could perhaps be the cause of different measurements taken for the same audio component, measured with the same precision instrument such as APx555 but by different people in their laboratory/home.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

T

Thanks for your kind reply.

However, my question was not posed to question your measurements.

I wanted to understand if in general the measurements that are published in various magazines, specialized sites or by the manufacturers themselves can have different results due to the current that powers the measured object and also the instrument itself if it works with Alternating Current.

This could perhaps be the cause of different measurements taken for the same audio component, measured with the same precision instrument such as APx555 but by different people in their laboratory/home.

They can and they do, you can alter the results as well and actually cook the numbers based on settings in the audio precision console.

 

[stemiki]

They can and they do, you can alter the results as well and actually cook the numbers based on settings in the audio precision console.

One thing is certain: the possible damage caused by alternating current, understood as a worsening of the sound performance, can be considerable, depending on how dirty it is.
I can therefore understand those who preferred the TT2 to the DAVE, which is much more sensitive to disturbances introduced by the network.

 

[GoldenSound]

Thanks for your kind reply.

However, my question was not posed to question your measurements.

I wanted to understand if in general the measurements that are published in various magazines, specialized sites or by the manufacturers themselves can have different results due to the current that powers the measured object and also the instrument itself if it works with Alternating Current.

This could perhaps be the cause of different measurements taken for the same audio component, measured with the same precision instrument such as APx555 but by different people in their laboratory/home.

Generally speaking mains noise is not going to have much of a meaningful impact on measurements except for in the case of setup issues such as having a ground loop or the device itself having a horrifically designed PSU.

Measurements published in different places are done using different analyzers, so that alone will result in small differences. Measurements taken on a 2722 or standard ADC instead of an APx555B for example are likely to show higher distortion than is actually there in reality.

But also, setup configuration makes a substantial difference. I've done a couple seminars on this topic at canjam and have a dedicated online version of it coming, but in order to directly compare measurements you need to be sure they were taken in the same way. If one person is measuring using a 20khz filter and another is measuring using a 40khz filter then the results cannot be compared. This is why I always include a 'full report' document attached to my measurement posts which includes full details about exactly how my analyzer was set up and configured for each individual test. The fact that many places provide measurements with no info about setup configuration is extremely frustrating and confusing to me.

 

[stemiki]

Generally speaking mains noise is not going to have much of a meaningful impact on measurements except for in the case of setup issues such as having a ground loop or the device itself having a horrifically designed PSU.

Measurements published in different places are done using different analyzers, so that alone will result in small differences. Measurements taken on a 2722 or standard ADC instead of an APx555B for example are likely to show higher distortion than is actually there in reality.

But also, setup configuration makes a substantial difference. I've done a couple seminars on this topic at canjam and have a dedicated online version of it coming, but in order to directly compare measurements you need to be sure they were taken in the same way. If one person is measuring using a 20khz filter and another is measuring using a 40khz filter then the results cannot be compared. This is why I always include a 'full report' document attached to my measurement posts which includes full details about exactly how my analyzer was set up and configured for each individual test. The fact that many places provide measurements with no info about setup configuration is extremely frustrating and confusing to me.

Thank you and congratulations for your passion and professionalism in carrying out your work!

 

[Reactcore]

Another marvelous album for HMS.
If one cant hear its depth and transient effect with these drums.. nothing will.

 

[thePhones]

Another marvelous album for HMS.
If one cant hear its depth and transient effect with these drums.. nothing will.

Thanks for sharing, I love drums and the depth on the drums is indeed nice. I was just a bit distracted by the other instruments hard left/right panning. But really good recording over all.
More of this please I really enjoy the recent sharing of good recordings

 

[macfan]

Hello everyone - As I zero on which way I will go with the Hugo TT2 or Hugo 2 to pair with an M-Scaler, I have a general question.

Do you feel best results would be obtained by sending original, non-upsampled, digital information vs. the use of so called hi-res files we can source from the likes of HD Tracks, Qobuz or whatever source they might be from. It would seem that in many cases the providence of these hi-res tracks could be questioned due to the vintage of the recording and the ease of use of software upsamples (whose quality might not always be great).

It is one thing to play an original tape of some kind thru a high quality ADC to create a new hi-res file. At least with this method there is an opportunity to capture information from the source that was previously missed due to the available ADC's at the time it was orignally captured. But simply upsampling without other considerations seems like the result is to simply have a hi-res file.

Enter the M-Scaler. Feed it an "original" 44.1 kHz file from a ripped CD that is "bit-perfect" and let the M-Scaler do it's thing to reconstruct the signal within the limits of it's capabilities. Based on what I have read and viewed in various presentations, it seems the goal is to not invent new information, but to more accurately represent the information that is actually there by following the Whittaker-Shannon sampling theorem as closely as possible.

Since the technology to achieve infinite taps is not currently available (with zero timing/transient errors), the M-Scaler gets as far as 1,015,808 taps, with the WTA filter algorithm optimized to address the accuracy of timing reconstruction within the scope of the tap length available.

Based on this, using "original" sample rates for a given source would appear to give the best results. For M-Scaler owners, what has your experience been? I find the tech behind this very interesting and have been trying to learn as much as I can about it.

Thanks

 

[Meridian7]

I've just posted a video demonstrating that not only can high performance oversampling indeed make an audible difference vs standard filters, but therefore DACs themselves even if 120dB SINAD can also still sound different and are in fact not necessarily 'Audibly Transparent'

@GoldenSound Thank you very much for that !

About 'merely academic and most people won't notice anyway' type of thinking:

I tend to goto loud parties where 90% is unaware of the term 'sound quality' and if stuff ain't wall reflected morbidly dead then they are happy as a bird in springtime. A hifi insensitive/non interested semi sound deaf crowd all together.

Yet it seems this jolly bunch is sensitive to zoning into a hypnotic tribe vibe atmosphere, e.g. what was tend to showcase in the cave party in the movie The Matrix before the machine-world attack. (Zion by Fluke)

Little to my surprise there is an extremely strong correlation, a direct link, between the quality of the sound system at hand, and the obtained tribe-ish fun factor experienced.

My point being: you don't necessarily have to be interested or trained for the auditorial differences to reach your inner-system, the therapeutical effects works behind the curtains of the aware mind, sort of.

Imho someone who fails to distinguish an A/B test failed merely on hearing/mind level, I believe the hearth listens along on a different scale, one hard to point to and quantity.

 

[MarkParity]

@GoldenSound i wanted to ask a curiosity of mine:

when taking measurements with equipment such as the Audio Analyzer APx555, is it possible that the household electricity (cleaner or more polluted) influences the measurements or does it not change anything on the result?

Thank you!

A loaded question as your signature implies you believe a battery source is better as you use one yourself.

My take on this no if the designer has done a good job then no the difference between powering with battery or clean mains electricity (the DNO stuff most people have in their houses) will make no "measurable" difference. Those measurements will have been done during the design and any issues fixed.

 

[Reactcore]

Do you feel best results would be obtained by sending original, non-upsampled, digital information vs. the use of so called hi-res files we can source from the likes of HD Tracks

Yeap i find mostly original 44.1 redbook to sound better than high res. versions.

I have quite some double albums.. one from HDtracks Qbuzz etc. and an old CD rip of the same where the latter Mscaled sounds easily hearable clearer with better depth. Rob's WTA algorytm does a much better job than most DSP'ed high res stuff you can buy/stream.

Its why i have such a big music collection on file and dont stream.

 

[JTbbb]

Hello everyone - As I zero on which way I will go with the Hugo TT2 or Hugo 2 to pair with an M-Scaler, I have a general question.

Do you feel best results would be obtained by sending original, non-upsampled, digital information vs. the use of so called hi-res files we can source from the likes of HD Tracks, Qobuz or whatever source they might be from. It would seem that in many cases the providence of these hi-res tracks could be questioned due to the vintage of the recording and the ease of use of software upsamples (whose quality might not always be great).

It is one thing to play an original tape of some kind thru a high quality ADC to create a new hi-res file. At least with this method there is an opportunity to capture information from the source that was previously missed due to the available ADC's at the time it was orignally captured. But simply upsampling without other considerations seems like the result is to simply have a hi-res file.

Enter the M-Scaler. Feed it an "original" 44.1 kHz file from a ripped CD that is "bit-perfect" and let the M-Scaler do it's thing to reconstruct the signal within the limits of it's capabilities. Based on what I have read and viewed in various presentations, it seems the goal is to not invent new information, but to more accurately represent the information that is actually there by following the Whittaker-Shannon sampling theorem as closely as possible.

Since the technology to achieve infinite taps is not currently available (with zero timing/transient errors), the M-Scaler gets as far as 1,015,808 taps, with the WTA filter algorithm optimized to address the accuracy of timing reconstruction within the scope of the tap length available.

Based on this, using "original" sample rates for a given source would appear to give the best results. For M-Scaler owners, what has your experience been? I find the tech behind this very interesting and have been trying to learn as much as I can about it.

Thanks

Not to interested in the tech myself, but the CD rip sounds better to my ears.

 

[LeeJB1970]

Yes, let the MScaler do the upscaling!

 

[stemiki]

A loaded question as your signature implies you believe a battery source is better as you use one yourself.

My take on this no if the designer has done a good job then no the difference between powering with battery or clean mains electricity (the DNO stuff most people have in their houses) will make no "measurable" difference. Those measurements will have been done during the design and any issues fixed.

If there is a clear improvement when listening, I assume there is also a corresponding improvement in the measurements. Maybe not all the measures, but just some parameters.

Whether this improvement is due to the use of a battery, a mains conditioner or a better power cable, I think it makes no difference.