[bogi]

@rkt31 tell me which one you are interested in and I can give you more detail if I know. Because there are some specific things, like max. rate for direct DSD and support of 48k based DSD rates, which may be not visible in device specs.

Other source are devices tested and recommended by Jussi - see 'Recommended hardware' section on Signalyst page (you need to filter out hardware for NAA devices).

 

[rkt31]

@rkt31 tell me which one you are interested in and I can give you more detail if I know. Because there are some specific things, like max. rate for direct DSD and support of 48k based DSD rates, which may be not visible in device specs.

Other source are devices tested and recommended by Jussi - see 'Recommended hardware' section on Signalyst page (you need to filter out hardware for NAA devices).

A well measuring dac which is capable of dealing hqplayer modulated output natively ie the dac doesn't process it's own.

 

[Superunknown2]

Much has been said here about SDM/DSD not being a good fit for Holo DACs. I have to agree. I have a Holo Spring 3 and no matter what filters I use, SDM/DSD always sounds like I am listening in a tunnel. Good if you like the HD8XX sound, terrible otherwise.

I also saw that Golden likes sinc-L and sinc-Mx best, while the filter I see mentioned most here, what seems to be the most popular on this thread, is sinc-long. I tried going back and forth, and it sounds to me like sinc-L/Mx is more accurate and pure, while sinc-long's longness causes almost a grungy, weighty sound that I think sounds good with rock. Sinc-L/Mx sound almost thin in comparison with that kind of music in my experience. I also noticed that sinc-L/Mx sound like they have a wider soundstage than sinc-long, but they don't do layering and holographicness as well, at least not as far as I can tell with my setup. Maybe my perception is colored by the extra grungyness, but sinc-long does sound better with soundstage overall, other than being a bit smaller and somewhat colored in comparison to sinc-L/MX.

 

[bogi]

A well measuring dac which is capable of dealing hqplayer modulated output natively ie the dac doesn't process it's own.

That are all from the lists ... and SINAD 116 vs 120 does not tell about difference in sound and which one will sound better for you.

 

[bogi]

Much has been said here about SDM/DSD not being a good fit for Holo DACs.

Holo May is quite popular on AS forum in direct DSD mode. But it may require rest of chain which is not tuned too warm and relaxed. Then it is about finding filter/modulator combination you like with your music content.

I also saw that Golden likes sinc-L and sinc-Mx best, while the filter I see mentioned most here, what seems to be the most popular on this thread, is sinc-long. I tried going back and forth, and it sounds to me like sinc-L/Mx is more accurate and pure, while sinc-long's longness causes almost a grungy, weighty sound that I think sounds good with rock. Sinc-L/Mx sound almost thin in comparison with that kind of music in my experience. I also noticed that sinc-L/Mx sound like they have a wider soundstage than sinc-long, but they don't do layering and holographicness as well, at least not as far as I can tell with my setup. Maybe my perception is colored by the extra grungyness, but sinc-long does sound better with soundstage overall, other than being a bit smaller and somewhat colored in comparison to sinc-L/MX.

We are in land of subjective sound perception. Different people are using different chains, may be focused to different aspects of sound ... and there are so many filter/modulator combinations one can try. For example I am trying to avoid extra long filters - I mentioned some pages back that they are causing transient smear with music content containing fast transients. I also tend to use a bit different set of filters with two DACs from my signature (only D300 is direct DSD capable, E50 is ESS chip based).

 

[Louisiana]

if someone have the horsepower, try this out:

 

[genefruit]

if someone have the horsepower, try this out:

CF16M is on my short list of favorite filters, along with Sinc Mx, Sinc L, and PSGL.

 

[dudeX]

Much has been said here about SDM/DSD not being a good fit for Holo DACs. I have to agree. I have a Holo Spring 3 and no matter what filters I use, SDM/DSD always sounds like I am listening in a tunnel. Good if you like the HD8XX sound, terrible otherwise.

DSD on the Spring/May needs lots of good data (actually that's true for most DACs). That means finding the right filters (DSD 512 for me is fantastic but my meager Mac can't do it justice). DSD without good equipment sounds soft, less dynamic, and sometimes virtually indistinguishable from PCM.
But feed it a lot of data, and DSD should sound like it ought it to, that is very real, with pinpoint imaging, almost lifelike, with a real stage, and boundaries to the walls.

I don't get the tunnel effect at all, but I haven't experimented heavily with filters to find something that worse.

 

[Superunknown2]

DSD on the Spring/May needs lots of good data (actually that's true for most DACs). That means finding the right filters (DSD 512 for me is fantastic but my meager Mac can't do it justice). DSD without good equipment sounds soft, less dynamic, and sometimes virtually indistinguishable from PCM.
But feed it a lot of data, and DSD should sound like it ought it to, that is very real, with pinpoint imaging, almost lifelike, with a real stage, and boundaries to the walls.

I don't get the tunnel effect at all, but I haven't experimented heavily with filters to find something that worse.

I have a 2021 MacBook Pro (M1 Pro chip) going into a Holo Spring 3 and listening to a ZMF Caldera through a Holo Bliss, so I would think my equipment is good. I am running HQ Player out of Roon, and streaming Tidal through it, so I don't think there is any problem there. What do you mean by "DSD 512"? I don't see that option on my list of modulators under the "SDM" tab. Do you mean modulator DSD7 and bitrate of 512?

 

[bogi]

What do you mean by "DSD 512"? I don't see that option on my list of modulators under the "SDM" tab. Do you mean modulator DSD7 and bitrate of 512?

DSD512 means DSD bitstream at 512 * 44.1k = 22579.2k or 22.05M (regardless on modulator or other settings). HQPlayer setting is 44.1k x512.
An alternative 48k based DSD512 bitrate setting is 48k x512.

Why did you mention DSD7 modulator? Much more quality provide EC modulators.
What for filters and modulator are you using? At which bitrate?

 

[Superunknown2]

DSD512 means DSD bitstream at 512 * 44.1k = 22579.2k or 22.05M (regardless on modulator or other settings). HQPlayer setting is 44.1k x512.
An alternative 48k based DSD512 bitrate setting is 48k x512.

Why did you mention DSD7 modulator? Much more quality provide EC modulators.
What for filters and modulator are you using? At which bitrate?

I was trying different modulators but couldn't find one that stood out. Which one do you use?

 

[bogi]

I was trying different modulators but couldn't find one that stood out. Which one do you use?

It's about both oversampling filter and modulator. Choice of oversampling filter may depend on genre and recording played. Modulator is usually set once and then used for all content.

Set some good but not too demanding oversampling filter like poly-sinc-gauss-long.
Choose some 44.1k source content for start.
Try from ASDM7EC family in this order (your MacBook may be not able to handle the first ones): super 512+fs, light 512+fs, 512+fs, super, light
Try at first at 44.1k x512. If you get dropouts, try at 44.1k x256.
Then you can start to search for a suitable oversampling filter for your source content.
Give me some idea what for content you are listening to and what you are missing in sound.

 

[rkt31]

It's about both oversampling filter and modulator. Choice of oversampling filter may depend on genre and recording played. Modulator is usually set once and then used for all content.

Set some good but not too demanding oversampling filter like poly-sinc-gauss-long.
Choose some 44.1k source content for start.
Try from ASDM7EC family in this order (your MacBook may be not able to handle the first ones): super 512+fs, light 512+fs, 512+fs, super, light
Try at first at 44.1k x512. If you get dropouts, try at 44.1k x256.
Then you can start to search for a suitable oversampling filter for your source content.
Give me some idea what for content you are listening to and what you are missing in sound.

so you mean first oversampling is required then modulator is applied ? if both oversampling and modulator are too demanding like sinc L long with high quality modulator then will it work with i7 laptop ?

 

[bogi]

so you mean first oversampling is required then modulator is applied ?

No matter. Just to easier find the right modulator it is suitable at first to set some high quality but not too demanding oversampling filter, like gauss-long or gauss. Or for hires content some of gauss modulators which contain 'hires' in their name. Or some of poly-sinc-*-2s filters, best to choose middle length (not short, not long) for the first try. Simply choose one and search for a modulator you like most.

if both oversampling and modulator are too demanding like sinc L long with high quality modulator then will it work with i7 laptop ?

sinc-L or sinc-long are quite hard job for a computer without nVidia GPU and long filters have also some disadvantages (transient smear with source content containing fast transients), so I'm not sure it has sense to invest $$$$ to be able to run sinc-L, when there are so many other possibilities. I like more middle length filters like poly-sinc-mp, poly-sinc-hb-m, poly-sinc-gauss-halfband, poly-sinc-gauss and with some content (like prog rock of 70's) poly-sinc-short-mp. Just some examples. They are easier on resources than sinc-L and transient smear with 'fast sounds' is not present with them.

If somebody is able to distinguish between sinc-LI vs sinc-L and sinc-L considers as the best one worth of investment, then of course, an investment to hardware makes sense. One can try to compare sinc-Lm vs Sinc-LI vs sinc-L at DSD256 rate and based on that to decide, if it has sense to upgrade hardware for sinc-L to be reachable at 512 (or 1024).

@EMINENT has setup able of running the hardest load filters, he can help on this topic more.

 

[rkt31]

No matter. Just to easier find the right modulator it is suitable at first to set some high quality but not too demanding oversampling filter, like gauss-long or gauss. Or for hires content some of gauss modulators which contain 'hires' in their name. Or some of poly-sinc-*-2s filters, best to choose middle length (not short, not long) for the first try. Simply choose one and search for a modulator you like most.



sinc-L or sinc-long are quite hard job for a computer without nVidia GPU and long filters have also some disadvantages (transient smear with source content containing fast transients), so I'm not sure it has sense to invest $$$$ to be able to run sinc-L, when there are so many other possibilities. I like more middle length filters like poly-sinc-mp, poly-sinc-hb-m, poly-sinc-gauss-halfband, poly-sinc-gauss and with some content (like prog rock of 70's) poly-sinc-short-mp. Just some examples. They are easier on resources than sinc-L and transient smear with 'fast sounds' is not present with them.

If somebody is able to distinguish between sinc-LI vs sinc-L and sinc-L considers as the best one worth of investment, then of course, an investment to hardware makes sense. One can try to compare sinc-Lm vs Sinc-LI vs sinc-L at DSD256 rate and based on that to decide, if it has sense to upgrade hardware for sinc-L to be reachable at 512 (or 1024).

@EMINENT has setup able of running the hardest load filters, he can help on this topic more.

So what will be better a longer filter like sinc LL and pcm to pcm upsampling or a lighter filter with modulator to convert pcm to dsd?