[jlaako]

Is there a way to get around the fact that the client always has to be in the foreground?

I need to figure out the way around all the limitations Apple has placed on the way to make iOS practically non-multitasking OS. I think I will figure it out. But so far, Microsoft Surface Pro is example where the same thing works without extra trouble.

 

[jlaako]

Just to make sure I get this straight, when you talk about a transient, are you talking about something that is still within the bandwidth limit? If I understand what you're saying, you're referring to transients that have energy near FS/2 that trigger the "apodising" counter in HQPlayer, such as a cymbal hit.

Yes, many times if you have apodizing counter incrementing you would also have filter ringing in such cases. But apodizing counter focuses on other aspects though than filter ringing, since we are assuming you have a sensible non-ringing filter (analysis runs purely on the source data). IOW, if the apodizing counter is incrementing, you certainly wouldn't want to use a filter that is potentially ringing.

Main point of the counter is to indicate that the source needs corrections due to error signals. But you would certainly want to make sure you have something that doesn't ring to any notable amount. (refer to my earlier listening samples) Because you will otherwise introduce additional ringing.

 

[MLGrado]

That's totally incorrect.

Many delta sigma DAC chips provide direct DSD path possibility and many DAC manufacturers utilize that possibility with D/S chips. Just look at the DSD part of the AS list. DAC chips used in those devices are ALL of delta sigma design. You don't find ESS based DACs on that list but not only ESS chips are delta sigma design ...

Also discrete DSD designs like Holo, T+A, including Jussi's DSC1 and DSC2 ARE delta sigma design, since they work ONLY with delta sigma modulated input signal (what DSD actually is).

Look how Jussi described his DSC1:
"DSC1 is an Open Hardware, "discrete" delta-sigma D/A-converter specifically designed for 256x and higher sampling rates and optimized for seventh order modulators used in Signalyst HQPlayer."
DSC1 does not contain any delta sigma modulator. But it requires delta sigma modulated signal on its input. Like all direct DSD capable DACs. DSD signal is result of delta sigma modulation and no other than delta sigma based D/A section can accept such signal.
DSC1 and DSC2 open hardware DACs were inspirations for DAC manufacturers like Holo. They share the same design principles. That's all delta sigma. Just other way than is implemented in few dollar costing and hardware compromised chips.

Actually, it isn't 'totally incorrect'.

Some DSD DACs indeed provide direct paths and use a filter similar to what is in the Signalyst DAC. iFi, T+A, Holo Audio, and SOME implementations of AKM that allow for the bypass to be turned on.

Other types do NOT have a 'bypass' or direct mode, so yes, everything that is input to the DAC is remodulated with the internal DSM onboard.

 

[MLGrado]

Thank you for that explanation. That makes it seem like there is no benefit to DSD over PCM in HQPlayer, because of all that potential error. What is the benefit of DSD over PCM? Is there any benefit of using DSD instead of PCM on a NOS DAC like a Holo Spring/May?

There are benefits. The biggest one is the sound and personal enjoyment. Preferably you would use a DAC like the Signalyst DAC. (T+A, Holo, iFi, AKM if the engineer enables bypass mode).

Then again, DACs such as ESS will re-modulate the incoming DSD stream. The argument can be made that THIS is the best way, since the signal output will be once again multi-bit Delta Sigma, which means higher SINAD, SNR, etc. etc. For the measurements crowd. The downside? Extra DSP that may not be necessary.

I come down in the first camp. People argue about this all the time so passionately as if life depends on it. But, the only right answer is what sounds best to YOU. Which is why I miss the old days of being able to more easily audition things before committing to buy. As it is, you can use a trial version of HQPlayer, and purchase the DAC of your choice, and it you don't like it, or want to try something else, you certainly can.

 

[dericchan1]

I am a total believer in hqplayer that any dac purchase decisions will have to factor in how well it works with hqplayer - ie if it’s delta sigma dac does it support dsd direct…, if it’s R2R dac, does it support high sampling rate and do not have any dsp in the conversion process - (think Holo audio dac vs denafrips dac)

Through out the past few years, I have tried quite a number of dacs and I am left with ifi pro idsd and a holo cyan 2 in my systems …

 

[MLGrado]

Thoroughly enjoying some of the best sound I have ever heard this weekend. Finally got my DSC2 DAC back up and running with HQPlayer. Something is just 'right' about it. I finally have the E1DA Scaler to go with the E1DA ADC and APU, so I am going to be measuring it this week. I do have prelim measurements from a few months ago, but the impedance of the E1DA ADC isn't a match for the transformer output of the DCS2. The scaler fixes that.

Now all I need is a better PC. I am limited to certain filters and modulators and speeds no higher than 256x. But it needs to be quiet. I will build it myself. Any good recommendations for quiet PC cooling? I am guessing water-cooled is the best way to go?

 

[MLGrado]

I am a total believer in hqplayer that any dac purchase decisions will have to factor in how well it works with hqplayer - ie if it’s delta sigma dac does it support dsd direct…, if it’s R2R dac, does it support high sampling rate and do not have any dsp in the conversion process - (think Holo audio dac vs denafrips dac)

Through out the past few years, I have tried quite a number of dacs and I am left with ifi pro idsd and a holo cyan 2 in my systems …

My two DACs that are keepers are the Signalyst DSC2 and I have the iFi iDSD PRO, too.

 

[jlaako]

Now all I need is a better PC. I am limited to certain filters and modulators and speeds no higher than 256x. But it needs to be quiet. I will build it myself. Any good recommendations for quiet PC cooling? I am guessing water-cooled is the best way to go?

My water cooling systems are not any quieter than air cooled ones... Since the water blocks still need fans.

My quietest setups are using Noctua NH-D15S cooler. It takes a big case to fit. But I'm using Fractal Design Define series full ATX cases, which also have built-in sound proofing on panels. BIOS set to Silent fan profile, meaning that it keeps the CPU just below thermal throttling, not running fans any faster than needed for that.

Maybe T-seriest Intel CPU? At the moment I have i9-13900T doing DSD512 with ASDM7EC-super 512+fs and default filters and highest loaded cores are around 50%...

 

[dericchan1]

My two DACs that are keepers are the Signalyst DSC2 and I have the iFi iDSD PRO, too.

Did you build the DSC2 yourself and where did you find the necessary parts?

 

[dericchan1]

My water cooling systems are not any quieter than air cooled ones... Since the water blocks still need fans.

My quietest setups are using Noctua NH-D15S cooler. It takes a big case to fit. But I'm using Fractal Design Define series full ATX cases, which also have built-in sound proofing on panels.

Maybe T-seriest Intel CPU? At the moment I have i9-13900T doing DSD512 with ASDM7EC-super 512+fs and default filters and highest loaded cores are around 50%...

I agreed. I am a big fan of the Noctua NH-D15S as well, you pretty much have to stand like 1 ft away from the pc to hear any hint of the fan

 

[MLGrado]

Did you build the DSC2 yourself and where did you find the necessary parts?

No I did not build this one. I purchased it second hand. Lucky me. Pavel built it. (I think)

I may trade out the Chinese transformers for Lundahl. Or maybe not. I used to really be into tinkering like that but I get carried away and can't stop once I have started haha

 

[dericchan1]

No I did not build this one. I purchased it second hand. Lucky me. Pavel built it. (I think)

I may trade out the Chinese transformers for Lundahl. Or maybe not. I used to really be into tinkering like that but I get carried away and can't stop once I have started haha

Lucky you!! Not a handy man myself, I would be totally thrilled to buy a already assembled dsc2 if someone has one…

Having said that the ifi pro idsd is a keeper for me, upgraded to a pair of WE396A, the musicality is touch to beat

 

[jlaako]

Here's i9-13900T + RTX2080 loitering at DSD512 from poly-sinc-gauss-long & ADSM7EC-super 512+fs.

 

[MLGrado]

Lucky you!! Not a handy man myself, I would be totally thrilled to buy a already assembled dsc2 if someone has one…

Having said that the ifi pro idsd is a keeper for me, upgraded to a pair of WE396A, the musicality is touch to beat

I have a pair of the Western Electric too. Right now I have a pair of Tesla 6CC42 running. The original Tesla before JJ bought the rights. They are super tubes as well. Right up there with the WE but much less expensive.

I agree with you on how good the iDSD PRO is. I spent an entire evening going back and forth between the iFi and the DSC2. Don't ask me to pick one lol. I will say that I am enjoying the Signalyst the most right now.

 

[Ghoostknight]

hmm interesting im looking into DIY a dac right now and i also saw the DSC lineup with DSC3 the most recent one
tho i kinda planned on getting a AKM board since its more versatile than then DSD only DSC, did you guys compare AKM dacs with DSC dacs (or similar DSD dacs)?

hardware resamplers like the AK4137 might be worth a try with DIY too, tho i probably have to look into a own pcb here with better clocks etc..