[Cohiba]

I am fairly new to this forum and have spent the past few weeks reading hundreds of posts, especially anything concerning the Denon D2000 and Little Dot Mk V (which, because of this forum, I have just acquired). You are right about the sorry about your wallet part. I am already curious about the Little Dot Mk IV for my HD600.

Anyway. After buying the D2000 last winter (I needed a good pair of closed headphones at work) coupled with the Total Bithead (now just upgraded to the Little Dot Mk V) I see no way back to normal stereo speakers. I am member of a local high end club and have been lucky enough to listen to set ups in the $200 000 class (at home I have a 100 times cheaper rig).

However, these high end set ups do not come close to the D2000 and the Little Dot Mk V when it comes to dynamics and bass punch playing my favorite music. I mostly listen to progressive metal, gothic metal and symphonic metal. Yes, high end set-ups are superior playing blues and jazz (which I also like). But how come they cannot play metal?

I have always assumed it is because of the inferior quality of metal recordings. However, most of these recordings sound excellent through my Denons. And the frequency should be flatter and distortion about as low as the full-size set-ups I have been listening to.

So my questions are:

1. How come full size high-end set-ups make my heavier music sound boring?

2. What full size speakers and amp will provide the dynamic sound I know and love from my Denons? I mean, I do not even feel like listening to music through loudspeakers in my living room any longer *haha*

 

[Currawong]

Hi-end set-ups are often focussed towards detail and clarity. For many people, that takes some getting used to, and it doesn't benefit all music, especially the modern, compressed crap that comes out nowadays designed to sound good through cheap buds from an iPod.

 

[iriverdude]

I'm the opposite. Speakers > Headphones. If you like dynamic upfront sound checkout JM Lab speakers, Cobalt range.

 

[panda]

although many 'hi-fi' systems are indeed very boring sounding (atleast to my taste), you probably just like the signature that your setup gives you more than the other setups you have heard.

the speakers not as good as headphone topic on the other hand you have completely opposite but that's another story...

denon is not exactly a brand that's known for dynamics, but i havent heard the d2000. since you are asking about high end, you should be looking at grado rs-1 which are the most dynamic sounding fones. also, you need a great source and amp to get past the mid-fi stage.

 

[nlaudio]

Lots of "high end" systems are not really designed for "headbanger" levels. For one thing, the neighbors can't tolerate it.

If you want something that plays loud and dynamic, you need horns.

 

[nlaudio]

If you want an intensely dynamic speaker that you can buy off the shelf, I'd look at the Danley Sound Labs SH-50.

 

[Cohiba]

Thanks for the answers

Oddly enough, I am not into playing music really loud. I just enjoy having a dynamic sound at moderate levels. What I cannot figure out is how that is possible with my Little Dot Mk V amp, Total BitHead DAC/amp and Denon D2000, but not with a high end set-up.

I think Currawong has a good point with some of my music being compressed and made for mp3. However, the Little Dot Mk V has really good measurements and so do the Denon and Total BitHead. I realize this is not high-end, but how come there is such a huge different between this set-up and high-end set-ups when it comes to excitement?

I am so satisfied with my headphone set-up that I currently see no point in doing any other upgrades other than buying a better DAC. But am I forever stuck in mid-fi land when it comes to a system for my living room? I would really like a dynamic full size set-up, so that I can enjoy a huge sound stage in front of me instead of just inside my head.

I will check out the speakers mentioned here. I am curious about trying a Bryston power amp with something from Klipsch and see if that works. I hope there is some way to create as great a symmetry as I experience with my head-fi set-up.

 

[Skylab]

I, too, am not into playing music too loudly, and I too love headphones. But there is nothing that can compare with the sound of sitting in he sweet spot between my B&W N800's. They really make music come alive in a way I don't think headphones quite can.

Don't get me wrong - I think several of my headphone rigs come very close, and I listen to headphones far more often than speakers due to what another headfier rightly called "environmental issues" (meaning the environment I am in when wanting to listen to music). But when I am able to park my butt on the couch in the sweet spot - it's the best sound I get to hear anywhere, since it is a high-end system tuned for my tastes.

 

[jkroon]

One thing often overlooked with home stereo systems is room acoustics. The acoustics of your room affect the sound every bit as much as your speakers do. That's one of the reasons I prefer headphones. If you're only asking about the speakers themselves, the bigger the better. If you want dynamic sound you need tower speakers (with a high efficiency rating if you listen mostly at lower volume levels). All of the speakers here can and do sound excellent depending on your preference for sound. While not considered "high end" in many circles, I've always been partial to Polk Audio speakers. Especially the LSi series that's out now. But, then again, room acoustics can change everything. A speaker that sounds good in my living room might sound "boomy" or "bright" in yours. The best thing to do is to find a dealer that either has an excellent return policy, or will allow you to audition the equipment in your home before purchasing.

 

[Skylab]

I agree with that - that's why setting up a speaker stereo is a long-term project in tuning and tweaking. But it can be oh-so-very worth it.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Don't judge gear by the price tag. $200k can get you a great system. $200k can also buy about $5,000 in raw materials tarted up as status symbols with the majority of the cost split between fat profits and marketing.

You have to get under the hood, see what's inside, do a parts cost count (allowing for overhead, etc., and even reasonable profit, which are legitimate costs) to see what you're really paying for. Forget the breathless reviews, glossy ads and message board shills hired by viral marketing agencies. One of the best indicators of value is how big the markup is. If someone is demanding $10k for $500 of parts, well, you'd be wise to take a close look at whether their product is legitimate or just a method to separate people from their money.

That aside, there's a huge range of loudspeakers available. I love (and continue to accumulate) headphones, but you can get the same levels of detail with more impact, soundstage and emphasis with loudspeakers. I'm not too up on speakers that rock, but if you can't find any, you can always build them yourself. One great thing about speakers is that a hobbyist can design and build his own. If you want tremendous bass, there are any numbers of subwoofers and woofers that you could, for instance, run in a line array. If you want top end detail, add ribbons, planars or AMTs up top. You can do anything you want.

You might want to look around with Google or through diyaudio.com or audiokarma.com to see if there are any nearby builders. I'd talk to one of them or even meet and let them listen to your headphones. They should be able to point you in the right direction for building your own pair with the exact sound you want.

I shouldn't cost you more than a few thousand in raw parts, either. Maybe less, maybe a little more. But what you're looking for either exists or you can make it yourself.

 

[piotr z]

it's a hard task to make speakers sound better than very good headphone setup - as for that - I was trying to put together speaker based setup recently but gave up :/ - it takes more than just buying cd player, IC, amp and headphones - You have to take care for room acoustics and quite often pre-amp and another set of cables - so that multiply the things that change ss of your system making it lifetime task to get everything to sound almost flawless - and for your informations also - jmlab 927 beryllium based setup failed to sound close to what w5000 has to offer in therms of microdynamics, detail, clarity not even talking about bass coz to replicate that of these speakers was imposible - I'll need bigger utopias and... just to be a milionaire I'm guessing

 

[piotr z]

speaker setup on the other hand does one thing better - can make music live in your room and doesn't have major flaws like headphones setups do - as for taht I'm realy pleased to hear that HD800 may be plain and boring coz for me that means that they don't fake anything

 

[xaval]

I only listen to phones because of the noise of the speaker system, especially during the late nights - my speaker system is so much more entertaining it's hard to compare, really. Granted, microdynamics seem better resolved through phones due to the driver proximity but that's just it I guess.

As far as system "design" the most important factor is the way the speaker plays with your room - ok, this is subject to a lot of debate, but as far as I'm concerned, it's the truth. Find the "right" speaker and move... backwards! In this regard, more speaker money doesn't really that much more quality in sound and it's not even a parts value issue because of room interaction.
I don't know about the OP budget so I won't even try to recommend anything... are those Denons really THAT dynamic a speaker system cannot compete?

 

[brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cohiba /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...Yes, high end set-ups are superior playing blues and jazz (which I also like). But how come they cannot play metal?

They do play metal better because trey reproduce the recording more correctly. The problem is in the essence of the metal music - it's supposed to be aggressive and harsh sounding. And the unferior headphones usually tend to sound more harsh and less refined which benefits the "metal" sound

By the way I use my Omega2 with my metal recordings and I like them very much. I'm surprised how good may sound even the early albums of Slayer, Sepultura, Megadeth, Metallica, etc.