[elmoe]

Yes it is a newer model from audio-gd, I've been following their 'new' stuff closely (since they seem to come up with new designs pretty often). For the price it looks like a pretty good deal.

 

[TopQuark]

For the Chinese prices listed, why not just get a USA designed and made upgradeable Schiit Bifrost for $349 or the crowd funded Light Harmonics Pulse X for $439 with a balanced output dual Sabre chips?
 
The manufacturers have very rich audio design history as well from the well regarded Sumo Audio, Theta Audio, to the Light Harmonics Da Vinci that is a $31,000 DAC!  At least you can be assured that these people knows what they are doing at Chinese prices! 

 

 

[elmoe]

  For the Chinese prices listed, why not just get a USA designed and made upgradeable Schiit Bifrost for $349 or the crowd funded Light Harmonics Pulse X for $439 with a balanced output dual Sabre chips?
 
The manufacturers have very rich audio design history as well from the well regarded Sumo Audio, Theta Audio, to the Light Harmonics Da Vinci that is a $31,000 DAC!  At least you can be assured that these people knows what they are doing at Chinese prices! 

 

 
The Bifrost is not DSD capable and I don't trust a company that sells USB cables for 2000 dollars (Light Harmonics).

 

[ag8908]

For the Chinese prices listed, why not just get a USA designed and made upgradeable Schiit Bifrost for $349 or the crowd funded Light Harmonics Pulse X for $439 with a balanced output dual Sabre chips?

The manufacturers have very rich audio design history as well from the well regarded Sumo Audio, Theta Audio, to the Light Harmonics Da Vinci that is a $31,000 DAC!  At least you can be assured that these people knows what they are doing at Chinese prices!   

Light harmonics is a 3 year old company. Are we sure they sell these 30k dacs or is that just a marketing gimmick?

 

[TopQuark]

   
... I don't trust a company that sells USB cables for 2000 dollars (Light Harmonics).

 
LOL. I'm not going into this for this thread. 

  So going for an unknown Chinese manufacturer over a US company that sells 2000 dollar cable is better.  Hmmmm.

 

[elmoe]

Yes. Because the amount of money spent is minimal and the parts used are shown and known to be decent, if they're not, it's on ebay and there's buyer protection, I pay via PayPal and get my money back.
 
Compared to a company that doesn't show the insides of their DAC on their website and sells 2000usd usb cables, I'm inclined to trust the Chinese ebayer more, especially considering most of them have flawless feedback from ebayers around the globe. Roll your blue faced eyes if you'd like, it's still more logical 

 
The biggest scams I've seen in audio (known to be scams, and not blatantly obvious) have always been from American or European companies, not Chinese. See the Singlepower fiasco if you need referencing. 

 

[TopQuark]

Light harmonics is a 3 year old company. Are we sure they sell these 30k dacs or is that just a marketing gimmick?

 
Google is your friend.  Da Vinci DAC reviews are everywhere.  Also, check the glowing reviews of their $119 kickstarter USB Geek Out that just started shipping out.
 
I still don't get the logic, though, of getting an unknown Chinese DAC without much reviews and known use of poor (or fake) components over a US company that practically opened their design methodology to everyone at similar or better pricing. 

 

[elmoe]

   
Google is your friend.  Da Vinci DAC reviews are everywhere.  Also, check the glowing reviews of their $119 kickstarter USB Geek Out that just started shipping out.
 
I still don't get the logic, though, of getting an unknown Chinese DAC without much reviews and known use of poor (or fake) components over a US company that practically opened their design methodology to everyone at similar or better pricing. 

 
To be fair, now that it's known that the components are poor or fake, I won't be buying one. That being said, I would much rather spend my money buying an Audio-gd DAC, with plenty of features, great parts and good engineering, with reviews where it's said to rival DACs costing thousands of dollars, rather than buying from a company that sells clearly overpriced cables.
 
Here is the logic: if they can be so unscrupulous as to charge you 2000usd for a cable which, by the looks of it, couldn't have cost them more than 200 to manufacture (and I'm being very generous here too), then there is absolutely no reason they wouldn't do the same with their cheaper DACs. As for 'great reviews', point me to any piece of hifi gear over a hundred dollars that doesn't have it's share of glowing reviews. Let me save you the trouble: you won't find any.

 

[TopQuark]

Originally Posted by elmoe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Compared to a company that doesn't show the insides of their DAC...

 
But why? Their mass market product just came out.  I, myself, will not post a picture for anyone to copy it.  Anyway, pics are all over.  Here's their USB version:
 

 
Anyway, the point I am making is, there seems to be a lot of misinformation about this company.  They are quite open.  Some asked for femto clock option.  They got it.  They have a website with a forum.  They have videos for updates, etc.
 
It's your money but don't get discouraged because of your past experience from other companies.  Criminals exists in Europe, US, or China.  Risk/reward is on everything.  But deeper research helps a lot.

 

[ag8908]

   
Google is your friend.  Da Vinci DAC reviews are everywhere.  Also, check the glowing reviews of their $119 kickstarter USB Geek Out that just started shipping out.
 
I still don't get the logic, though, of getting an unknown Chinese DAC without much reviews and known use of poor (or fake) components over a US company that practically opened their design methodology to everyone at similar or better pricing. 

Still not sure if anyone actually purchased one of this three year old company's $32,000 DACs.
 
Also, here's something I found on google, their president (a recent immigrant from China, by the way) not knowing the proper way to put on an HD800 headphone (or maybe that's the way audiophiles put it on, I don't know). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rneDi5dqlI See 2:50. Note that this is a kickstarter request for a measily $28,000. Edit: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gavn8r/geek-a-new-usb-awesomifier-for-headphones (do you want to buy a $32,000 DAC from a company that needs to e-beg for $28,000? you can get a Sennheiser Orpheus for that price)

 

[TopQuark]

  Here is the logic: if they can be so unscrupulous as to charge you 2000usd for a cable which, by the looks of it, couldn't have cost them more than 200 to manufacture (and I'm being very generous here too), then there is absolutely no reason they wouldn't do the same with their cheaper DACs.

 
Here's the deal.  Don't buy it!  As simple as that.  They have been honest enough to say that a 2000usd cable is not going to make any difference on a DAC that cost below 10,000usd or so.  It is for a niche market who are willing to spend that amount.
 
But that doesn't mean because they are selling a 2000usd cable, their $439 dual ESS Sabre balance DAC cannot be better than an equivalent unknown Chinese DAC.

 

[elmoe]

   
Here's the deal.  Don't buy it!  As simple as that.  They have been honest enough to say that a 2000usd cable is not going to make any difference on a DAC that cost below 10,000usd or so.  It is for a niche market who are willing to spend that amount.
 
But that doesn't mean because they are selling a 2000usd cable, their $439 dual ESS Sabre balance DAC cannot be better than an equivalent unknown Chinese DAC.

 
There are no absolutes but it doesn't make me confident in spending 439usd (actually, 489usd + linear power supply + clock upgrade + shipping, so alot more than just 489usd) according to this:
 

 
I won't say it isn't interesting but it doesn't have the features I'm interested in having, and I would also be paying for a headphone amp I have no need for. Thus going the audio-gd way with a DAC that has better USB capability (thanks to a USB module), a BNC digital input (which I need), 2 clock upgrades (for the DAC and USB), a linear power supply and looks overall less 'cheap' for a 600USD shipped price tag is my preferred choice.

 

[ag8908]

   
Here's the deal.  Don't buy it!  As simple as that.  They have been honest enough to say that a 2000usd cable is not going to make any difference on a DAC that cost below 10,000usd or so.  It is for a niche market who are willing to spend that amount.
 
But that doesn't mean because they are selling a 2000usd cable, their $439 dual ESS Sabre balance DAC cannot be better than an equivalent unknown Chinese DAC.

The $80 DAC that I linked and purchased earlier has a better Burr Forman chip than the Geek Out's BF chip, and it looks more substantial as well. Just saying.

 

[elmoe]

  The $80 DAC that I linked and purchased earlier has a better Burr Forman chip than the Geek Out's BF chip, and it looks more substantial as well. Just saying.

 
Not to mention the XMOS chip for better USB capability, DSD playback, an external power supply (so you don't have to power through noisy USB), sturdier built, a Japan ALPS pot for volume control, and less than half the price.

 

[ag8908]

   
Not to mention the XMOS chip for better USB capability, DSD playback, an external power supply (so you don't have to power through noisy USB), sturdier built, a Japan ALPS pot for volume control, and less than half the price.

Yeah I can't wait for it to come. However it sounds, I doubt it'll sound worse than $80.