[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Instead of looking for somebody's else's proof on how power cables work or not. Create your own proof. Best way to know for sure? At it would be really cool if others were there to check out you findings? Get multiple posts from other head-fiers. That would be cool!

Wow, You are already talking about "creating your own proof." That is so biased already that is not even funny. A more biased vocabulary would be hard to come up with. You are starting from a position of total conviction on a result, yet suggesting the worst possible methodology to test the claim at stake.

If you tried to "create your own proof" about the moon illusion not being an illusion, because you believed it truly looks bigger near the horizon, and asked fellow "creators of their own proofs" to share with you the results of said own proofs, how do you think that will turn out? How much closer to the truth do you think you'll get that way?

:/

Obviously, you are not getting it.

Believing that the "best way to know for sure" is to check for yourself, just listening, with your own sensory and cognitive machinery and their limitations and biases, and with no proper methodology, and to check with fellow uncritical believers, is at the very core of the problem.

You will not be proving absolutely anything that way. You are just proceeding in a way to make it easy for your biases and beliefs to be confirmed, to keep believing whatever you already believe, or to validate what you want to believe. It's not a way to truly test a claim in an objective and unattached, unbiased manner.

What you suggest is actually the worst possible way to truly test the matter at stake.

 

[rsaavedra]

And in case you don't know about proper attempts of testing whether cables make a difference, why would you think anyone would miss $1 million dollars if they simply had to prove (under appropriate testing conditions) that they can hear differences with cables?

Pear Cable CEO Calls James Randi's $1 Million Offer a Hoax - JREF Forum

Pear Cable Chickens Out of $1,000,000 Challenge, We Search For Answers | Gizmodo Australia

What is more, that challenge was related to comparing speaker cables. Power cord cables, which are plugged on the other side of an AC-DC power supply (that is, clearly outside of the signal path), are way farther removed from affecting the final audio we perceive than speaker cables or interconnects.

 

[BIG POPPA]

Thinking practical? For example, I just get my Woo 3+. The idea pops in my head " an upgraded power cable may help the sound of my amp". What do I do next? Read all the threads on the 3+ to get an idea what other people are using with the amp. Define the sound I am looking for. This is the most important part. Do I want to soften the sound, bring the music forward, etc,etc,etc. Next, ask someone who I trust to point me in the right direction to achieve the sound I am looking for. Then I buy the cable or parts to make the cable I am looking for. If I like the cable great, if not, return or sell it. If the DIY cable doesn't sound what I was looking for, just try it again.
There is no way to learn something absolute with out spending money to hear for yourself on your rig. You can go to meets, and I highly recommend this you will save money.
But to read about DBT on gear to see if they really work is a waste of time in this hobby because it all breaks down to 2 things. It will work for your rig or it won't. How you get there is up to you and I will try it first before telling people it doesn't work. More fun that way.

 

[haloxt]

The difference between you and anticablers is you have fun testing cables and they have fun telling you you're wrong. You keep saying you perceive a difference, and they keep demanding objective proof immune to subjective fallacy (to put it euphemistically) when you aren't interested in providing it.

 

[BIG POPPA]

Another thought. I have a Woo3+ modified and an Arcam 73t. Both can use an upgraded power cable. What is the way to get the best cable for each? How does everybody else get a power cable?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you tried to "create your own proof" about the moon illusion not being an illusion, because you believed it truly looks bigger near the horizon, and asked fellow "creators of their own proofs" to share with you the results of said own proofs, how do you think that will turn out? How much closer to the truth do you think you'll get that way?

That's a bad example for illustrating your position. It's a fact that the moon appears to be bigger near the horizon. The appropriate analogy would be an altered sonic perception.

I haven't heard a clear difference between different power cords (none of them high-end, though) so far, therefore I'm still skeptical in this regard. But the best thing you can do is listen to components in your own setup with an open mind and the necessary caution in terms of placebo effects. It's not a perfect evaluation method, but the only practicable one.
.

 

[sachu]

I just replaced my over 3 decade old wall receptacle with a new Hospital Grade Hubbell 20A one...wowzers..what a difference!!

 

[BIG POPPA]

Try an Oyaide R1. That is what I have in my wall.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a bad example for illustrating your position. It's a fact that the moon appears to be bigger near the horizon.

And why is that a bad example again?

People do believe it does look bigger near the horizon, but it really does not. It appears to look bigger. The key word there is appear. Optically speaking it can be shown that it does not really look or appear any bigger there, in spite of what our eyes tell us.

It might happen similarly with other perceptions. It might appear that things sound different one way or the other, when they actually don't. Our senses can fool us. Anecdotical and personal empirical "evidence" proves nothing. That's the point.

PS. By the way, about the appropriateness of the moon illusion analogy in this context, here's what someone else had to say about it in the JREF forums: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...&postcount=576

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif And why is that a bad example again? People do believe it does look bigger near the horizon, but it really does not. It appears to look bigger. The key word there is appear. Optically speaking it can be shown that it does not really look or appear any bigger there, in spite of what our eyes tell us.

Well, I thought you were talking about atmospheric distortion. However, if you're talking of an illusion caused by the optical proximity of distant objects on the horizon, this doesn't have an appropriate analogy in music reproduction.
.

 

[KingStyles]

Why do we need proof of anything. If you dont believe that it will make a difference than be happy that you are saving money. If you do believe it will make a difference than be happy that you found something that can improve your system. There isnt a right or wrong answer here. Hearing can be subjective or even a placebo. What one piece of proof says cant happen another persons ears will say it is happening. So we end up going around and around on a forum to justify our views untill everybody gets frustrated and quits. Thus hardening there views on the subject even more allowing even less chance of ever being persuaded that the other side might be partially right also. Then there will be a new post on it next month. Why do we keep fighting this battle? Im going to experiment myself with power cords and make up my mind myself. Then I wont be persuaded either way and allow myself to further have the opportunity to see the other side if I dont find a diference at first.

 

[haloxt]

It's like watching the waves move up and down a beach for a few hours hoping to see something different. Some people still think the wave might swallow the land, or the ocean will disappear if they look hard enough or try hard enough, but all that ever happens is the same back and forth movement -_-.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's like watching the waves move up and down a beach for a few hours hoping to see something different. Some people still think the wave might swallow the land, or the ocean will disappear if they look hard enough or try hard enough, but all that ever happens is the same back and forth movement -_-.

That is true. Yet, I'm really not doing this for fun. Some people do appreciate clear explanations and getting their eyes opened. I've seen it happening before, not just in audio but in some other contexts of life. And in any case, it's always right to challenge dubious claims (a.k.a. BS) and make people aware of when things claimed to be factual are really far from that.

 

[haloxt]

All of us know there's not yet been DBT proving audible cable differences, and that the claim is based upon anecdotal evidence. You keep asking for proof when we don't care to provide it. I'm all for opening eyes, you should try it sometime and realize this fact.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif All of us know there's not yet been DBT proving audible cable differences, and that the claim is based upon anecdotal evidence. You keep asking for proof when we don't care to provide it. I'm all for opening eyes, you should try it sometime and realize this fact.

No, you misunderstand my aim. I'm not actually asking anyone for proof. I'm merely making people aware of the state of the claim that expensive power cord cables make a difference, and what would be needed to truly prove such a dubious claim. In other words, I'm repeating the boiler analogy and the challenge to such claim, because people keep repeating the claim as if it was fact. That's all. Just keeping a critical thinking mind and trying to share critical thinking. Combating BS, instead of trying to spread BS. That's all.