[waterlogic]

There are people who can see different colours when they are exposed to sounds and music.
A young lady from Switzerland Elisabeth Sulzer is the only human (as far as known to science todate) that can taste sounds and music and also see different colours for different tones, pitches etc...

She never goes to disco clubs, for the music there she says tastes so awful that she can not stand it.

I wonder what taste she might experience listening to power wire music - smoked reptile oil ???

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterlogic /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are people who can see different colours when they are exposed to sounds and music. A young lady from Switzerland Elisabeth Sulzer is the only human (as far as known to science todate) that can taste sounds and music and also see different colours for different tones, pitches etc... She never goes to disco clubs, for the music there she says tastes so awful that she can not stand it. I wonder what taste she might experience listening to power wire music - smoked reptile oil ???

This would make for a good forum game. What color would X brand headphones sound like?

What I hear of as Sennheiser's sound reminds me of blue or green. For some reason electrostats seem like they'd sound yellow.

A new level in the audiophile experience. Can't wait for genetics to advance that far.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you misunderstand my aim. I'm not actually asking anyone for proof. I'm merely making people aware of the state of the claim that expensive power cord cables make a difference, and what would be needed to truly prove such a dubious claim. In other words, I'm repeating the boiler analogy and the challenge to such claim, because people keep repeating the claim as if it was fact. That's all. Just keeping a critical thinking mind and trying to share critical thinking. Combating BS, instead of trying to spread BS. That's all.

As far as I can tell, the only person in this thread who did anything close to saying "what would be needed to truly prove such a dubious claim" was fzman, and he got the "I AM SCIIIIIIENCE" *Kill the messenger* treatment. Everyone here knows no DBT has proven cable differences, and anyone who thinks their subjective experiences are infallible are kooky beyond being helped by online forums. When this silly thread is dead we will have returned to the beginning without having learned anything.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as I can tell, the only person in this thread who did anything close to saying "what would be needed to truly prove such a dubious claim" was fzman

You might not have read all posts carefully enough:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Instead of looking for somebody's else's proof on how power cables work or not. Create your own proof. Best way to know for sure? At it would be really cool if others were there to check out you findings? Get multiple posts from other head-fiers. That would be cool!

With respect to your other comment:
Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif When this silly thread is dead we will have returned to the beginning without having learned anything.

I disagree though. I think the boiler analogy is or can be very instructive, as well as some other analogies I've written about related to electricity.

In this thread, as well as in the JREF forums (full of skeptical people) the feedback of some members is encouraging with respect to posts I've submitted like the ones below, which attempt to spread science and critical thinking, against the typical repetition of unfounded and highly questionable claims so commonly found in audio forums:

JREF Forum - Pear Cable CEO Calls James Randi's $1 Million Offer a Hoax - Post #566

JREF Forum - Pear Cable CEO Calls James Randi's $1 Million Offer a Hoax - Post #567

JREF Forum - Pear Cable CEO Calls James Randi's $1 Million Offer a Hoax - Post #585

 

[waterlogic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everyone here knows no DBT has proven cable differences, and anyone who thinks their subjective experiences are infallible are kooky beyond being helped by online forums. When this silly thread is dead we will have returned to the beginning without having learned anything.

Cca 80 % of all nerve comunication lines go from your brains to your hearing organ i.e. 20 % lines go in the opposite direction. Chances are that the brain tells your ears how and what to hear based on year long data/experience/learning about the outside world. That is why DBT is important if you want to come closer to what is as opposed to what it is not in your hi-fi chain (outside of your brain physical reality).

The moment a pseudo reproduction is wired into your brain you do not need a hi-fi chain and power-wire to feed it. You become a human music processing device and you can hear cymbals from haven etc i.e. whatever you can dream you can do, hear ... And this thread and also whatever human communication is not about this. For minimum communication between people they have to agree upon certain chriteria that can be behold by each individual beyond any doubt. DBT is such one chriteria.

And you learn all your life, inevitably you like it or not until you die.
You see, a feeling that you have learned nothing is your brain trick of trade to help you build a defense wall against unpleasant present feeling, but this will pass if you just let it go and start to communicate.

Cheers

 

[BIG POPPA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you misunderstand my aim. I'm not actually asking anyone for proof. I'm merely making people aware of the state of the claim that expensive power cord cables make a difference, and what would be needed to truly prove such a dubious claim. In other words, I'm repeating the boiler analogy and the challenge to such claim, because people keep repeating the claim as if it was fact. That's all. Just keeping a critical thinking mind and trying to share critical thinking. Combating BS, instead of trying to spread BS. That's all.

What do you consider an expensive cable? Dollar amounts would help in your opinion . Expensive is a relative term. What is expensive to you may not be to somebody else.
What gear did you find that the "expensive" cables did not work? What cables where they? Just trying to understand your opinion.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you consider an expensive cable? Dollar amounts would help in your opinion . Expensive is a relative term. What is expensive to you may not be to somebody else. What gear did you find that the "expensive" cables did not work? What cables where they? Just trying to understand your opinion.

Let me rather say what was clearly not expensive: two Quail power cords I purchased in a group buy here on Headfi (here's another thread related to that group buy.) Awesomely built, shielded, hospital grade power cords. Not including shipping they were $10 a piece. (<-- That's ten dollars, no error there.) One of these is powering my Dynahi; the other is powering this PC I'm writing from.

 

[haloxt]

rsaavedra, I want you to copy and paste these questions to big poppa "Do you think there's been DBT proving cable differences?" and "Do you think your senses are infallible?"

waterlogic, I have never denounced DBT (okay, sometimes when I'm feeling cynical). You know that the mind can misinterpret, but that is not just an argument against our ability to hear minute differences. It is also an argument for being more careful in testing our ability to hear minute differences. I have seen some anticablers declaring there is conclusive disproof for conscious audible differences and citing dumb experiments as evidence. If you want a proper DBT, do it yourself, don't run around asking people on an audiophile forum to do it for your pleasure.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif rsaavedra, I want you to copy and paste these questions to big poppa "Do you think there's been DBT proving cable differences?" and "Do you think your senses are infallible?"

And haloxt, I want you to copy and paste the full contents of this thread into a text editor, then save it somewhere in your harddrive. Then find all spelling mistakes in it.

I just thought it was only fair to let you know what I wanted as well.

 

[rsaavedra]

You can see the Quail power cord on the right in this pic of my Dynahi:

PS. The cable on the left is one I made myself; carries the DC from the power supply module to the amp module. Made it with these, which IIRC are in total less than $10:

PS': For more pics of my Dynahi, check the link in my signature below.

 

[waterlogic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have seen some anticablers declaring there is conclusive disproof for conscious audible differences and citing dumb experiments as evidence. If you want a proper DBT, do it yourself, don't run around asking people on an audiophile forum to do it for your pleasure.

There is a problem/question :

How much does the power cable really do?

If we want to find an answer to this question first we have to agree upon, what mutually accepted methods are to be used.
DBT is one method (as you say you accept it, or?).
If you feel this is ok, but not good enough please suggest and explain which additional method(s) do you suggest. If you argument it, I do not see why I should not accept it ?
No need to run around other people, we can do it ourselves. Our findings will never be dumb since we will agree on the methods to test the influence of cable beforehand, or ?

This is the only way to solve the problem. So how can this tread be silly or useless?
Since you joined this thread I take it for granted you are eager to find the answer no matter what the result is, as much as I am.

There is only one human activity which per se does not allow for such testing it is Art/Imagination i.e. either I do understand your art (painting, piece of music etc) or I do not. Either I like it or not...

 

[BIG POPPA]

rsaavedra, The reason I was asking on price on the cables you were using is because I build my own cables using Oyaide Power Plug P-037 Silver Rhodium by Revolution Power
and
Oyaide 4781BSR Silver Rhodium IEC Connector by Revolution Power
with this cable
Furutech FP-314Ag - Silver Plated Power cable by Revolution Power

I like this cable for my tube amp. Have more that I have made using good parts. Even have a PS Audio Punch Power to use as a reference with the cables I make.

 

[haloxt]

waterlogic, I think DBT is fine, but it has to be properly implemented. Having ten minute tests where you have an audience try to hear a difference between mystery cable A and mystery cable B is not scientific proof of anything. If people are serious about doing a DBT, they should not try to stack the odds against people hearing a difference. They should do everything that is reasonably within their power to allow someone to show, if he can, that he has the ability to discern cable differences. But honestly though, I don't care if anyone proves it or not, there's a reason why cable discussions are like they are, and a reason why controversial topics everywhere else are the way they are. People don't care for science, they care for being right.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif waterlogic, I think DBT is fine, but it has to be properly implemented. Having ten minute tests where you have an audience try to hear a difference between mystery cable A and mystery cable B is not scientific proof of anything. If people are serious about doing a DBT, they should not try to stack the odds against people hearing a difference. They should do everything that is reasonably within their power to allow someone to show, if he can, that he has the ability to discern cable differences. But honestly though, I don't care if anyone proves it or not, there's a reason why cable discussions are like they are, and a reason why controversial topics everywhere else are the way they are. People don't care for science, they care for being right.

Yes, that's a good point and necessary to answer the question of whether or not there's a difference.

However, one shouldn't need more than ten minutes to answer the question of the thread title (which ultimately got pushed to the back of the line by the cable discussion bullies and believers). How much does the power cable really do? If one can't find the difference in ten minutes, then it may not be enough to warrant a purchase if there are still upgrades to be had elsewhere in the system.

 

[haloxt]

My hypothesis is better than your hypothesis.