How much damage did I do to my ears?
May 30, 2018 at 2:23 PM Post #31 of 46
Geez. How safe or unsafe are IEMs? I'm using them for the first time and today for the first time I'm noticing tinnitus during the day (after waking up so no recent use of headphones or IEMs). I'll notice it going to bed and wonder how I don't otherwise, but it's definitely there right now.

Well, you probably want to keep your maximum listening level below 85 dB, A-weighted. Unless you build a measurement rig for your IEM it's hard to figure it out. I do have a calibrated measurement mic and a flat plate coupler for full sized headphones, so I measure 85 dB with a full sized can, then try to match that level approximately by ear with my IEM and take note of what volume setting that is for a given IEM/source combo. Personally I use Z weighting and try to keep peaks below 88db, which on most modern brickwalled music works out to about 85db on average, Z-weighted. People have made rudimentary measurement rigs for IEM's using acryllic tubing and UMIK-1 or behringer ECM8000 type mic like this, although it's pretty tricky to get internal volumes correct. Probably better than nothing though.

Depending on your level of interst, it might be worthwhile to get a miniDSP E.A.R.S.
 
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May 30, 2018 at 3:31 PM Post #32 of 46
Apparently, they may. Especially IEMs. You guys should have a look at this publication (http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15786). Basically it states that when sound waves get trapped in sealed ear canal, air pressure builds up inside and can boost the signal even up to 50dB! This leads to ear drum excursions up to 1000 times greater than in normal listening conditions. That's pretty scary to say the least. To make things worse, this build up triggers Stapedius reflex, which makes you perceive the loudness much lower than it actually is. This publication is pretty new and I really hope that more proper studies will be made in the near future regarding IEM safety, because now it looks like we still know very little.

No, there's only a "problem" with in-ear headphones that completely seal the ear canal and don't let any pressure escape.
The 50 dB boost, quite frankly, is a bit ridiculous. Of course you'll lose a lot of bass if you break the seal of an in-ear headphone. But there's no boost on top of the sealed frequency response. That's like saying that an open full-size headphone boosts the bass by 50 dB if you take it from the desk and put it on your head, but omitting the part with the desk.
frown.gif

Thoughts on this? I'm quite spooked by the ringing I'm experiencing today. I raised the volume of the IEMs I got to enjoy music and didn't think it was excessive but it seems my ears may be disagreeing. I use the white tips of RE600, if anyone has experience, and have noticed that perhaps those can create additional pressure. Was on the verge of buying a Shure se846 but now I'm backing off.
 
May 30, 2018 at 9:34 PM Post #33 of 46
what's relevant is how loud some signal will be for your ear. I don't know if we can increase the pressure and output by 50dB thanks to compressing the air inside the ear canal, but obviously when we do we notice how much louder it is. +10dB feels about twice as loud already, so +50dB isn't the kind of stuff that would ever stay unnoticed. :astonished:
for any headphone or IEM you adjust the loudness yourself so who cares about how sensitive or how different acoustic situations could increase the output when fed with the same amp. it's irrelevant as you obviously set the loudness to whatever you feel comfy with.
what is relevant is how loud and how long you spend listening to music. quiet listening, regular pauses with as much silence as possible, will give you no reason to fear anything. but loud is dangerous it always will be and the longer you listen loud the worst the effect.
aside from those captain obvious generalizations of mine, if you insert and take out the IEM like a barbarian, it's clearly not good. another issue I've encountered is that an IEM may have a signature where you feel like it's not loud overall, but maybe there is that one spike that ends up 10 or 15dB louder and can in the long run damage the cells for that frequency. most people here have experienced IEMs they found rapidly tiring, and even some that did increase their tinnitus. I've had a few like that myself.
the last issue is simply about having a foreign object in your ear canal. some people really can't stand that, and a few have some reaction to the physical pressure, or how the ear stays humid and hot.

about the RE600, the obvious thing I can think about is how it doesn't isolate well, so if you're in a noisy environment, you probably naturally push the volume up so the music will cover that noise. and that's how we usually end up doing dumb stuff for our ears. try to be self conscious about the volume settings you're using, maybe test that at home in silence to decide what is pretty loud. and force yourself not to go over that limit when you're in a noisy environment. and if you need to go louder to enjoy or simply hear the music, then give up and get yourself something that isolates better, or wear earplugs when you're at those very noisy places.
in any case, I'm back as captain obvious, but if you notice a direct link between using your IEMs and ringing or other issues, I'd say: stop using the IEM.
 
May 31, 2018 at 4:48 AM Post #35 of 46
gently ^_^
 
May 31, 2018 at 4:53 AM Post #36 of 46
...I don't know of another way. Could stuffing larger tips into your ear explain what happened? The RE600 appear to be bass-light so I've been trying to maximize the seal.
 
Jun 5, 2018 at 5:52 AM Post #37 of 46
OP here, I finally saw an ENT specialist and had a hearing test done today. I've been diagnosed with bilaterial mild hearing loss, but it could be just due to my age (44), prolonged exposure, or that particular incident that blasted my ears at full volume.

My left ear is worse - a -40 dB dip at 6 kHz and both ears show a -30dB dip at 8kHz. I'm also still suffering from the tinnitus that developed after the incident, it's been a month and show no signs of improvement.

My enjoyment of music has dampened since it happened. Music feels lifeless and soundstage feels compressed. I dunno if it's the tinnitus, the loss of high frequencies, or if it's just psychological. I haven't tried EQing the higher frequencies yet, but I'll focus on 6 and 8 kHz tonight when I get home and see if it improves.
 
Jun 6, 2018 at 11:04 AM Post #39 of 46
OP here, I finally saw an ENT specialist and had a hearing test done today. I've been diagnosed with bilaterial mild hearing loss, but it could be just due to my age (44), prolonged exposure, or that particular incident that blasted my ears at full volume.

My left ear is worse - a -40 dB dip at 6 kHz and both ears show a -30dB dip at 8kHz. I'm also still suffering from the tinnitus that developed after the incident, it's been a month and show no signs of improvement.

My enjoyment of music has dampened since it happened. Music feels lifeless and soundstage feels compressed. I dunno if it's the tinnitus, the loss of high frequencies, or if it's just psychological. I haven't tried EQing the higher frequencies yet, but I'll focus on 6 and 8 kHz tonight when I get home and see if it improves.

Glad you saw the ENT______truthfully now _____probably the 'damage is done'. Over the years/decades____companies kept selling larger, more powerful amps, when it only takes 5 watts or so to do permanent harm.
They still post numbers: "our system can put-out__20Hz to 20K Hz____at birth, if we were tested doubt if we could hear 20K Hz. ( our dogs can hear sirens maybe 10 miles away, then bark)
Redryder____since posting here in recent weeks, I have been testing using buds, with special tones. If I discover anything helpful will post ASAP.
Perhaps some slight help in near future.
All you posted above, is what I have missed for 40 years, sound-stage, imaging, etc.
Keep you posted.
 
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Jun 6, 2018 at 7:06 PM Post #40 of 46
OP here, I finally saw an ENT specialist and had a hearing test done today. I've been diagnosed with bilaterial mild hearing loss, but it could be just due to my age (44), prolonged exposure, or that particular incident that blasted my ears at full volume.

My left ear is worse - a -40 dB dip at 6 kHz and both ears show a -30dB dip at 8kHz. I'm also still suffering from the tinnitus that developed after the incident, it's been a month and show no signs of improvement.

My enjoyment of music has dampened since it happened. Music feels lifeless and soundstage feels compressed. I dunno if it's the tinnitus, the loss of high frequencies, or if it's just psychological. I haven't tried EQing the higher frequencies yet, but I'll focus on 6 and 8 kHz tonight when I get home and see if it improves.


Thanks for the update and sharing your experience. I think it is valuable to all of us. I am sorry to hear of your difficulties and I genuinely wish you the best.
 
Jun 21, 2018 at 11:44 AM Post #41 of 46
"...tinnitus is still fairly poorly understood and there's no way to know when/if your tinnitus will stop,"

I get tinnitus more often using IEM's than cans. I'm really careful but it sometimes still happens. Mine goes away in 24 hours. And, it's intermittent, not steady. YMMV. Good luck!
 
Jun 21, 2018 at 1:57 PM Post #42 of 46
If you are getting that from IEMs, I would recommend chucking IEMs and get headphones. No one should deliberately subject themselves to hearing damage. You'll wish you followed my advice when you hit 50 and you're putting hearing aids in your ears instead of IEMs.
 
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Jun 21, 2018 at 2:21 PM Post #43 of 46
If you are getting that from IEMs, I would recommend chucking IEMs and get headphones. No one should deliberately subject themselves to hearing damage. You'll wish you followed my advice when you hit 50 and you're putting hearing aids in your ears instead of IEMs.
Umm....... I'm 63. <smile> But you make a good point. I don't get tinnitus very often at all.
 
Jun 21, 2018 at 2:22 PM Post #44 of 46
You shouldn’t ever induce hearing damage
 
Jun 21, 2018 at 9:28 PM Post #45 of 46
If you are getting that from IEMs, I would recommend chucking IEMs and get headphones. No one should deliberately subject themselves to hearing damage. You'll wish you followed my advice when you hit 50 and you're putting hearing aids in your ears instead of IEMs.
Bigshot is 100% correct...i try to listen at lower levels. ...if you listen too loud your brain will turn it down and you will turn it up to no avail....and will still feel the need to turn it up....hearing loss will ensue with continued high volume....i am 58 and still enjoy music....so you might want to take mine and Bigshots word for it.
 
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