[Stereolab42]

It really is necessary for Audeze to respond at this point IMHO. If this thread had been up a month ago right before I bought my LCD-3 I would have waited to audition the Ether and HE1000 instead.

 

[goobicii]

They changed diagram material with fazor? I wonder if the bass loss comes from the fazor or the new material

Any theories on why they break so much while the Hifiman from China doesnt as often
..

 

[zilch0md]

I suspect, just guessing, that we're not reading about Audeze interviewing or surveying the customers who have had driver failures because they already know precisely why the drivers are failing. Their warranty already gives them an "out" should they find evidence of abuse, but I've not read of anyone being challenged on that condition, either.  The driver failures are being "processed" without resistance by Audeze.  
 
This leads me to conjecture that Audeze has already determined that there is no affordable, permanent fix for the LCD-3, by nature of its design. They are no doubt far more miserable, swimming in this whirlpool of failures than any one customer could be.  Again, I'm only conjecturing, but I suspect they will be rolling out a new model eventually, with a design that completely abandons use of the component(s) that have been failing in the LCD-3.
 
Meanwhile, except for reimbursing shipping costs, which would benefit the overseas customers, especially (but is not commonly offered for RMAs), Audeze has bent over backwards to do everything possible to guarantee customer satisfaction. It's obvious to me that they want to retain customer loyalty, and Duke40's testimony of five driver failures, combined with his recent decision to get an LCD-X, shows me that Audeze has been handling this very well.
 
Having owned a flawless LCD-2 rev.1 for nearly four and a half years, I am a big fan of Audeze, but I don't feel I'm revealing any bias when I predict they will survive this, thanks to how well they are treating their customers - well enough to retain customer loyalty, for sure.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

  I suspect, just guessing, that we're not reading about Audeze interviewing or surveying the customers who have had driver failures because they already know precisely why the drivers are failing. Their warranty already gives them an "out" should they find evidence of abuse, but I've not read of anyone being challenged on that condition, either.  The driver failures are being "processed" without resistance by Audeze.  
 
This leads me to conjecture that Audeze has already determined that there is no affordable, permanent fix for the LCD-3, by nature of its design. They are no doubt far more miserable, swimming in this whirlpool of failures than any one customer could be.  Again, I'm only conjecturing, but I suspect they will be rolling out a new model eventually, with a design that completely abandons use of the component(s) that have been failing in the LCD-3.
 
Meanwhile, except for reimbursing shipping costs, which would benefit the overseas customers, especially (but is not commonly offered for RMAs), Audeze has bent over backwards to do everything possible to guarantee customer satisfaction. It's obvious to me that they want to retain customer loyalty, and Duke40's testimony of five driver failures, combined with his recent decision to get an LCD-X, shows me that Audeze has been handling this very well.
 
Having owned a flawless LCD-2 rev.1 for nearly four and a half years, I am a big fan of Audeze, but I don't feel I'm revealing any bias when I predict they will survive this, thanks to how well they are treating their customers - well enough to retain customer loyalty, for sure.

 
Well said, and I strongly agree.
 
I was just looking around Audeze's site - does anyone know where the details of the warranty are stated?  I can't seem to find it...

 

[CanadianMaestro]

   
Glad I found this tread, as I was hot to get some Audeze product in the near future. I'll stick with a tried and true companys, such as Oppo or Sennheiser. I've run my HD650's daily for 11 years with zero issues.

Don't let some of the posts here deter you. Audeze makes fabulous HPs, esp LCD-2. Had one fault-free for 2.5 yrs, sold it because too heavy for me head.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

   
Defending a company that is knowingly selling a defective product, is very Skewed indeed. And my view of this sort of business practice would be the same for any other brand.

Not sure anyone's "knowingly selling a defective product", especially Audeze. There's no direct evidence for that. The HPs leave the factory in good shape, I believe. What happens to them thereafter, in many different owners' hands, is a tremendous variable that Audeze cannot possibly control for.

 

[Sweetmeat]

  I suspect, just guessing, that we're not reading about Audeze interviewing or surveying the customers who have had driver failures because they already know precisely why the drivers are failing.

 
I think it is a certainty that Audeze does know why their drivers are failing. Since they are all single-point open failures (they just stopped working), it is easy enough to figure out.
 
A while back someone disassembled an LCD3 to the driver level, and documented it here on Head-Fi. This turned out to be very unwise because it broke the headphones. However, it highlighted a design flaw that could be the cause of these failures (since we are guessing).
 
All Audeze drivers are thin films containing a conductive trace pattern that runs through the highest areas of magnetic flux (next to the magnets). The lighter, faster drivers (LCD3) use thinner, narrower traces that result in higher driver impedance. The heavier, slower drivers (LCD-X)) use thicker, wider traces that result in lower driver impedance.
 
The LCD3 disassembly showed that the connection between the trace and the wire is via a conventional solder connection. When dissimilar metals are in contact in a corrosive environment, one of the metals experiences accelerated galvanic corrosion. This results in loss of material from the lower-order metal at the contact site.
 
Many (but not all) of the failed LCD3s operate in hotter, more humid climates (Duke40's down under, matthewhypolite in Caymans, me in Miami). And the thinner, narrower traces of the LCD3 make them more susceptible to single-point open failures caused by galvanic corrosion than say, an LCD-X. Since we are guessing.

 

[Exidrion]

Haha.  Thanks.  It's pretty disappointing.  That's the third time since Feb 2015 - there were bought new from a dealer (and thankfully have a warranty) in June of 2014.  I'm just glad they aren't my ONLY pair of headphones.  What I fear most is keeping them past their warranty period.  Right now I am getting an average of 4 months per pair.

The first time they replaced both drivers.  The second time, they sent me a brand new pair.  The service from Audeze has been generally good but the reliability of my LCD3's, so far, is really poor.

I have the patience of a saint, but even I would be pretttyyyyy angry if my 2 THOUSAND dollar headphones broke 3 times in 4 months.

I admire you.

 

[Mr.Tom]

  Not sure anyone's "knowingly selling a defective product", especially Audeze. There's no direct evidence for that. The HPs leave the factory in good shape, I believe. What happens to them thereafter, in many different owners' hands, is a tremendous variable that Audeze cannot possibly control for.

What variable do you speak of? Do you think people buy the 3's for music, then reach for them when they need a hammer? I'm pretty sure most everyone that buys them, will use them for one thing, playing music.
 
If they had so many returns for the same issue, they know of the problem. They have made the choice to sell them anyway, and hope for the best. And its more likely they look at there cost of the headphones, and figure even if
they need to repair 2 or 3 times, they are still money ahead.

 

[Mr.Tom]

Lifetime warranty? What planet are you from?
They already stated that they extend your warranty out to 3 years from the time if driver repair which is better than I'd expect from most companies.

I'm from this reality, not sure what reality your in? Here's an example of a responsible company. I had an issue with the dvd tray not opening on my dvd player. I took the 6 year old player to Oppo to get fixed. The replaced the tray assembly. When I went to pick it up and asked how much for the repair, they replied, it's a known issue and we cover known issues.
 
That sounds like an unspoken lifetime warranty to me, at least on the known issue.

 

[raybone0566]

The way the bass slams on audeze I'm not surprised they fail. Just like any another high-performance product, they require maintance sooner or later. By the way hifiman's headphone fail quite a bit as well.

 

[Stereolab42]

 
The LCD3 disassembly showed that the connection between the trace and the wire is via a conventional solder connection. When dissimilar metals are in contact in a corrosive environment, one of the metals experiences accelerated galvanic corrosion. This results in loss of material from the lower-order metal at the contact site.
 
Many (but not all) of the failed LCD3s operate in hotter, more humid climates (Duke40's down under, matthewhypolite in Caymans, me in Miami). And the thinner, narrower traces of the LCD3 make them more susceptible to single-point open failures caused by galvanic corrosion than say, an LCD-X. Since we are guessing.

 
Plausible theory, but it makes no sense that Audeze wouldn't have found some replacement material for either the solder or the wire that doesn't suffer from this. We're not talking about advanced nanotechnology or protein-folded biotech drugs here... something just doesn't add up.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

I have the patience of a saint, but even I would be pretttyyyyy angry if my 2 THOUSAND dollar headphones broke 3 times in 4 months.

I admire you.

 
Haha.  Thanks.  At the end of the day, they are $2000 headphones.  What kind of spoiled person am I to be lucky enough to have something like that?  There are people worried about their next meal, never mind headphones.  I guess I just consider myself extremely fortunate.  My fancy headphones breaking doesn't change that.
 
 

 
I'm from this reality, not sure what reality your in? Here's an example of a responsible company. I had an issue with the dvd tray not opening on my dvd player. I took the 6 year old player to Oppo to get fixed. The replaced the tray assembly. When I went to pick it up and asked how much for the repair, they replied, it's a known issue and we cover known issues.
 
That sounds like an unspoken lifetime warranty to me, at least on the known issue.

 
Who's to say the LCD3's don't have the same unspoken warranty?  Did Oppo  triple the warranty of the DVD player after you bought it?  Nope.  Audeze did.  So point for point right now Audeze is ahead.  They may very well do the same thing that Oppo did.  They may not.  We as consumers have to decide if we are willing to give them that opportunity.
 

The way the bass slams on audeze I'm not surprised they fail. Just like any another high-performance product, they require maintance sooner or later. By the way hifiman's headphone fail quite a bit as well.

 
I think this thread exists because it seems to more common for the 3F's to fail than most any other headphones around.  If a headphone requires 'maintenance'  that's fine.  But we are talking driver failure after 2 months.  A car needs maintenance, fine.  Change the oil twice a year.  Okay.  This would more akin to having to replace the engine every 200 kilometers.  I'm not sure I would consider that maintenance...

 

[BeyerMonster]

  I'm from this reality, not sure what reality your in? Here's an example of a responsible company. I had an issue with the dvd tray not opening on my dvd player. I took the 6 year old player to Oppo to get fixed. The replaced the tray assembly. When I went to pick it up and asked how much for the repair, they replied, it's a known issue and we cover known issues.
 
That sounds like an unspoken lifetime warranty to me, at least on the known issue.

 
Sounds like is not the same thing as actually being one. If I wanted a lifetime of 

, the option is certainly there.
 
You don't buy a car and expect it to drive it every day and pass it onto your great grandchildren. Planars, orthodynamics, or whatever you want to call them aren't brand new, but they certainly haven't had as long a track record of volume production as dynamic drivers. Reliability is bound to be a bit more of a crapshoot. The 3 year warranty was something that I was willing to take a chance on and so far they did their best to make it right. Time will tell.
 
The gentleman with 5+ failures definitely seems like an anomaly. An interesting one nonetheless. It sounds like they haven't done a specific inquiry into his particular environment which is a bit odd, but they've tried their best to make him whole.
 
Wondering if he lives inside of a saltwater aquarium.

 

[Sweetmeat]

  You don't buy a car and expect it to drive it every day and pass it onto your great grandchildren. Planars, orthodynamics, or whatever you want to call them aren't brand new, but they certainly haven't had as long a track record of volume production as dynamic drivers. Reliability is bound to be a bit more of a crapshoot. The 3 year warranty was something that I was willing to take a chance on and so far they did their best to make it right. Time will tell.
 

 
Stupid me, I actually believed that I would get at least 10 years of service from my LCD3s. I have a pair of Stax much older than that, they are still going strong. Magnepans (ribbon technology) have been around just as long as electrostatics, they are very reliable as far as I know. I buy a pair of headphones like, once every 5 years. I absolutely would not have purchased the LCD3s if I knew they would break every year (for me) and going out of warranty after 3 years.