How I Went from 'Disappointed with HD600' to 'HD600-liciously Happy!' 🎶

[MRC001]

The general recommendation seems to point towards upgrading my audio source.

While I don't have a set budget, I prioritize sound quality and avoid needless extravagance. Given that I already own the headphones, my logical next step appears to be finding a superior audio source component. For someone who's entirely new to amps and related gear, where should I begin? I'm aiming for a product that balances quality with a sensible price. To put it plainly, if the audio difference is negligible, I'd rather not spend an extra $3,000. ...

For a well designed and built headphone amp having more than enough voltage & power to drive the HD600, JDS Labs and Schiit are among the best that are inexpensive. The fact that they are small US companies with good support may also be important to some people.
https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/
https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-plus

 

[WorksUnit]

My main goal is to have headphones that faithfully reproduce my binaural recordings, and I'll occasionally use them for music listening.

Given that I would suggest visiting whatever pro-audio store nearby, take your recordings along and get some demo time...

 

[WILLJS]

i can't say the HD6xx did much for me either, a bit too characterless

 

[Monsterzero]

For someone who's entirely new to amps and related gear, where should I begin? I'm aiming for a product that balances quality with a sensible price. To put it plainly, if the audio difference is negligible, I'd rather not spend an extra $3,000.

The Chord Mojo ll has excellent synergy with ZMF dynamic headphones, which have very similar power requirements to your HD600. The Mojo ll is an amp/DAC combo that can fit in your pocket. It can also drive most other reasonably spec'd headphones too.

If you want something more desktop oriented, the Nitsch x Schiit Piety also has excellent synergy with ZMF dynamics. The Piety is about as bargain priced as I'd feel comfortable going with to drive the HD600. The Piety is just an amp, so you'd still need a computer to do the digital decoding.

All that said, no amp and/or DAC is going to magically transform a headphone you already don't like into something you will like. With good upstream gear feeding most any headphone you can expect better and tighter bass, better staging, dynamics and imaging, etc.....The tonality will largely remain the same.

If you want to skip all of that and just want another headphone that your computer can drive, there are literally thousands out there. I have an old pair of Fidelio X1s that I use occasionally for single player games and it can be driven by a potato. There is also the Meze 99 classics. Both will have more bass than what you're used to and whether or not you will like them is hard to say. You can also check into the low impedance versions of the DT line by Beyerdynamic. Dt770/880/990 all come in easy to drive versions. Beyers have more treble than most headphones out there, which may or may not appeal to you, and in the case of the 770 and 990, more bass than the HD600. They are more v-shaped sounding, whereas the mids of the HD600 are the star of the show. The DT880 is the most neutral of the three and is often used for mastering music as it's quite revealing and bass light.

Or, finally, the cheapest and safest route to go is simply get another pair of the 360s

 

[dbmathis]

The Chord Mojo ll has excellent synergy with ZMF dynamic headphones, which have very similar power requirements to your HD600. The Mojo ll is an amp/DAC combo that can fit in your pocket. It can also drive most other reasonably spec'd headphones too.

If you want something more desktop oriented, the Nitsch x Schiit Piety also has excellent synergy with ZMF dynamics. The Piety is about as bargain priced as I'd feel comfortable going with to drive the HD600. The Piety is just an amp, so you'd still need a computer to do the digital decoding.

All that said, no amp and/or DAC is going to magically transform a headphone you already don't like into something you will like. With good upstream gear feeding most any headphone you can expect better and tighter bass, better staging, dynamics and imaging, etc.....The tonality will largely remain the same.

If you want to skip all of that and just want another headphone that your computer can drive, there are literally thousands out there. I have an old pair of Fidelio X1s that I use occasionally for single player games and it can be driven by a potato. There is also the Meze 99 classics. Both will have more bass than what you're used to and whether or not you will like them is hard to say. You can also check into the low impedance versions of the DT line by Beyerdynamic. Dt770/880/990 all come in easy to drive versions. Beyers have more treble than most headphones out there, which may or may not appeal to you, and in the case of the 770 and 990, more bass than the HD600. They are more v-shaped sounding, whereas the mids of the HD600 are the star of the show. The DT880 is the most neutral of the three and is often used for mastering music as it's quite revealing and bass light.

Or, finally, the cheapest and safest route to go is simply get another pair of the 360s

Thank you for pointing out those items. I did consider getting another PC360, but eventually realized I didn't need the mic after my company provided me with Jabra Evolve 75 SE as a replacement for the PC360s. While they're not the best headphones, they suffice for Zoom meetings.

 

[dbmathis]

For a well designed and built headphone amp having more than enough voltage & power to drive the HD600, JDS Labs and Schiit are among the best that are inexpensive. The fact that they are small US companies with good support may also be important to some people.
https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/
https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-plus

A close friend recommended the schiit too. Thanks.

 

[Monsterzero]

A close friend recommended the schiit too. Thanks.

Schiit gear is a safe bet as they have a HUGE name within the hobby, so if/when you decide to sell Schiit gear for whatever reason, it will get snapped up quickly.
Coming from somone who has both the Piety and the Magni, I'd highly recommend the Piety. It has a tube-like quality to it that the Magni does not, giving a more holographic/3D quality to the equation that the standard Magni cannot touch.
FWIW, the Piety was designed by Schiit, but due to limited part supplies they were unable to produce it en masse, so they gave Nitsch their blessing to build it. It's well worth the asking price IMO.

 

[dbmathis]

Schiit gear is a safe bet as they have a HUGE name within the hobby, so if/when you decide to sell Schiit gear for whatever reason, it will get snapped up quickly.
Coming from somone who has both the Piety and the Magni, I'd highly recommend the Piety. It has a tube-like quality to it that the Magni does not, giving a more holographic/3D quality to the equation that the standard Magni cannot touch.
FWIW, the Piety was designed by Schiit, but due to limited part supplies they were unable to produce it en masse, so they gave Nitsch their blessing to build it. It's well worth the asking price IMO.

I’ve decided on trying the Chord Mojo 2. Seems to tick the boxes I’m looking for. Portable, combo, low noise, inexpensive, good reviews, the things you said, etc.

 

[theveterans]

With HD600, Valhalla 2 will wake it up more than other Schiit amps within the reasonable price range

 

[hakunamakaka]

I’ve decided on trying the Chord Mojo 2. Seems to tick the boxes I’m looking for. Portable, combo, low noise, inexpensive, good reviews, the things you said, etc.

Mojo2 is a very good portable dac/amp and can be used in desktop mode. Plenty of power to drive your HD600 and you will quickly recognize the difference against mac only

 

[GREQ]

The PC360s are open. Just ask my wife about it, she will confirm . How did you make that graph? I wonder if I can make one using my 3DIO FS XLR mic?

Oh you're right... it's been a while since I measured it.

I made the graphs with a headphone measuring rig called the miniDSP EARS, using the free "REW" (Room EQ Wizard) software.

You probably should be able to get something similar using the 3DIO FS XLR, but since there is no headband rest for it, you may need to provide artificial clamping pressure with rubber-bands or a couple strips of clothing elastic tied into a ring.

The only 'problem' with using your microphone is that I believe 'Callibration Files' are not supplied.
Essentially a callibration file is a very simple set of data that turns the 'raw' output of the microphone into something humanly relatable.

Here are my measurements of the Sennheiser HD600 (Blue = left / Red = right channel)
I have removed the callibration from the Red/Right channel.

The microphone has it's own 'natural' peaks and dips as it is not a 'flat' recording instrument, so the callibration file aims to 'correct' that data.
In this case creating a curve that is closer and relatable to the 'diffuse field' target.
The reason being that the 'perceived' high amplitude at 4-5KHz is simply not a truthful representation of this headphones 'amplitude vs. frequency' (or frequency response).

So, without callibration, you will likely get some peaks and dips that are not a perfect representation, but measured against other headphones, you will be able to pick out differences between them, as long as they are measured with the same methodology/environment etc.

Chances are, a very similar microphone is used in your 3Dio thingy, so you could theoretically snag someone eleses callibration files + their measurement of the PC360 and then edit those callibration files to be as close as possible to the results you are getting.
I think there would be a bit of trial and error, AND a lot of effort (it's 145 lines of text with unique frequencies and amplitude adjustment values) but it's certainly possible.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

In 2018, my company gifted me a PC360 Headset. I was consistently impressed with the sound quality when using it with my Apple MacBook and Mac Mini. I remember thinking, "Sennheiser's audio quality is unparalleled. If I ever get a high-end pair from them, I'll be overwhelmed with emotion."

Recently, my PC360s gave out, so I decided to upgrade to the HD600. I was eager to try them out, given my past experience. To my surprise, they didn't live up to my expectations. I record 32-bit, 48kHz audio during my outdoor walks, and with the PC360s, it was hard to differentiate between reality and the playback. Listening to live recordings felt like being present at the event; I could discern every minor detail, be it a sneeze or a cough. With the HD600s, however, the experience felt akin to using a low-quality headset from decades ago. Did I receive a counterfeit pair from Amazon?

There are a number of things that could be going on there.

First off, with the exception of the early HD600s units with a rise in response at around 3500hz, if you got the ones with a smoother response but is weaker above 1000hz than the PC360, theny by comparison it will sound like it's deficient in detail.

That same response comparison can, when there's enough environmental noise, effectively make the PC360 closer to the Harman Curve that compensates for headphones vs speaker perception.

On top of all that you have a 300ohm headphone that runs better when fed with more voltage, which won't matter a lot at very low frequencies but once you have to crank it up, more so with the lower sensitivity on the higher impedance headphone, then it's going to feel like it's not "going," kind of like how a Civic Type R would feel better than a 5 series that isn't an M5.

Also if you're more used to listening to more treble then that just adds to perceiving an underpowered, smoother if weaker at the top end headphone as muffled or something.

Currently, I'm using them with a new MacBook Pro. Some sources suggest that an amplifier and DAC might optimize the performance, but others say a MacBook should suffice.

Power is a problem but in your case it is not the main problem.

Considering my basic understanding of headphone technology, I'm left wondering: would I be better off returning the HD 600s? Or can I enhance their performance with the right amp/DAC?

I'm going to bet you'd be better off with a Grado RS-1 unless you really need the advantages in imaging the PC360 has over the older driver design on the HD600.

There's the K702 but that's gonna need an amp more than the HD600.

My main goal is to have headphones that faithfully reproduce my binaural recordings, and I'll occasionally use them for music listening.

Honestly, I'm quite let down. Does anyone have insights or suggestions?

Maybe the K702 but you really will need to invest on an amplifier and a DAC to feed it. Or hey, an HD800.

Alternately you can just get an HD599 if you're not exactly looking to sit back and be able to point out where things are on an orchestra like a miniaturized speaker soundstage.

 

[dbmathis]

There are a number of things that could be going on there.

First off, with the exception of the early HD600s units with a rise in response at around 3500hz, if you got the ones with a smoother response but is weaker above 1000hz than the PC360, theny by comparison it will sound like it's deficient in detail.

That same response comparison can, when there's enough environmental noise, effectively make the PC360 closer to the Harman Curve that compensates for headphones vs speaker perception.

On top of all that you have a 300ohm headphone that runs better when fed with more voltage, which won't matter a lot at very low frequencies but once you have to crank it up, more so with the lower sensitivity on the higher impedance headphone, then it's going to feel like it's not "going," kind of like how a Civic Type R would feel better than a 5 series that isn't an M5.

Also if you're more used to listening to more treble then that just adds to perceiving an underpowered, smoother if weaker at the top end headphone as muffled or something.





Power is a problem but in your case it is not the main problem.






I'm going to bet you'd be better off with a Grado RS-1 unless you really need the advantages in imaging the PC360 has over the older driver design on the HD600.

There's the K702 but that's gonna need an amp more than the HD600.





Maybe the K702 but you really will need to invest on an amplifier and a DAC to feed it. Or hey, an HD800.

Alternately you can just get an HD599 if you're not exactly looking to sit back and be able to point out where things are on an orchestra like a miniaturized speaker soundstage.

Today, I played back a binaural recording of my living room, capturing both music and the distant clinking of dishes. Listening to the 32-bit 48kHz LPCM file recorded with a Zoom F6 with the HD600 via the Mac Mini was genuinely impressive, as if I was there. I know YouTube is diminishing my audio quality, but it's clear that there's a notable difference between the PC360 and the HD600. Like others have said, I might just need to get accustomed to them. I've decided to invest in the Mojo 2 and test it out with the HD600s. Maybe it will give it that extra I'm looking for? I also noticed that the buttons on the unit look like the jumping spider eye pattern in my profile picture. I think the universe is sending me a clear message here.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I've decided to invest in the Mojo 2 and test it out with the HD600s. Maybe it will give it that extra I'm looking for?

Hard to tell.

People tend to describe the sound out of the Mojo being practically magic, not just "I can hear more bass because of a blacker background/higher current performance/more voltage," since in two of those possible reasons it won't be true compared to a good desktop amp, but really just outright magic that in some cases I don't think it's the power or the clean signal but start to suspect it boosts certain frequencies.

Kind of like how Grado frequency response is all over the place but it sounds more "real," ie, the percussion gets boosted in just the right way (plus the high sensitivity gets it loud easily without hitting bad distortion and noise levels) so it really sounds lik the band was shurnk down and is now is inside your head.

 

[BS5711]

Today, I played back a binaural recording of my living room, capturing both music and the distant clinking of dishes. Listening to the 32-bit 48kHz LPCM file recorded with a Zoom F6 with the HD600 via the Mac Mini was genuinely impressive, as if I was there. I know YouTube is diminishing my audio quality, but it's clear that there's a notable difference between the PC360 and the HD600. Like others have said, I might just need to get accustomed to them. I've decided to invest in the Mojo 2 and test it out with the HD600s. Maybe it will give it that extra I'm looking for? I also noticed that the buttons on the unit look like the jumping spider eye pattern in my profile picture. I think the universe is sending me a clear message here.

I don’t want to complicate what has become a jumble of recommendations for all sorts of gear, however, I want to point something out for your reference in the decision making.

While the Mojo 2 will do a decent job it is technically at its best into a headphone with low impedance rather than high. Its maximum power output is into only 8 ohms and at 300 ohms of the HD600 it puts out only 90mw and something around 5 volts.

It will work just fine and will get plenty loud but I would not have thought it was anything close to a universal recommendation for a DAC/amp to make the most of the HD600.

Something like the rather more modestly priced iFi Zen Can is designed more with power output into a higher impedance load and puts out much more power into 300 ohms and something like 3 times the available voltage.

I use an iFi Diablo with my HD600 and it drives them exceptionally well despite being a battery powered DAC/amp. I would recommend one in principle but at the price it isn’t really a good starting point in your situation.

Of course you would need a separate DAC but iFi has several offerings and you could put together a little desktop stack for far less money than the Mojo 2 that is on paper better suited to the high impedance HD600.

Even the very modestly priced Zen Dac V2 would be a great starting point on its own and could provide DAC duties in a Zen Can if you wanted to try more power.

To make the most of these you would need a headphone cable with a 4.4mm balanced plug but they are easily available at all sorts of prices and you would have money left over versus the Mojo 2.

Just food for thought.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can/

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac-signature-v2/

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac-v2/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-can-review-headphone-amp.25224/