How do I convince people that audio cables DO NOT make a difference
Status
Not open for further replies.
May 11, 2010 at 12:31 AM
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever measured the waveforms between two different cables? I know we have equipment capable of measuring different waveforms...and when you get down to it, that's all sound really is. Just a traveling wave of propagating/oscillating pressures through a medium (in this case air).

Taking two cables, stock and boutique, volume matching the headphones/speakers they are attached to, and measuring the waveform. Has anyone done that? Since we would be measuring the sound directly, it would provide an absolute, unarguable answer - one way or another.

The whole idea seems so simple that I can't believe I haven't thought of it before.

May 11, 2010 at 7:10 AM
Did nick_charles get around to measuring any expensive cables? Last I saw in his thread, he'd only tested cables below \$100 or so.

May 11, 2010 at 8:48 AM

Quote:
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever measured the waveforms between two different cables? I know we have equipment capable of measuring different waveforms...and when you get down to it, that's all sound really is. Just a traveling wave of propagating/oscillating pressures through a medium (in this case air).

Taking two cables, stock and boutique, volume matching the headphones/speakers they are attached to, and measuring the waveform. Has anyone done that? Since we would be measuring the sound directly, it would provide an absolute, unarguable answer - one way or another.

The whole idea seems so simple that I can't believe I haven't thought of it before.

I was going to suggest something similar - based on the theory that if there is a measureable difference then technically there is the potential we will be able to hear this, but each person is different and I cant see how you can ever reach a satisfactory agreement/conclusion on the matter.

May 11, 2010 at 9:39 AM

Quote:
Did nick_charles get around to measuring any expensive cables? Last I saw in his thread, he'd only tested cables below \$100 or so.

\$139 was the most expensive cable I tested - a Zu Mobius 0.5M. I tested solid copper, stranded copper, silver-plated copper and stranded silver, directional and undirectional, once I ironed out some protocol issues the differences in FR terms were negligible. The really really cheap cable and (oddly) the silver cable were marginally noisier, but noise was at a pragmatically undetectable level. However from what I have learnt subsequently I could do a slightly better job with the FFT analyses.

I am not however inclined to pusue this any further, the World Cup is coming soon, I spent a lot of money and time on this and I will happily pass the torch to someone else, all you need is a decent USB soundcard a source and a PC with Cool Edit Pro or similar...plus a spreadsheet program with charting capability.

May 11, 2010 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever measured the waveforms between two different cables? I know we have equipment capable of measuring different waveforms...and when you get down to it, that's all sound really is. Just a traveling wave of propagating/oscillating pressures through a medium (in this case air).

Taking two cables, stock and boutique, volume matching the headphones/speakers they are attached to, and measuring the waveform. Has anyone done that? Since we would be measuring the sound directly, it would provide an absolute, unarguable answer - one way or another.

The whole idea seems so simple that I can't believe I haven't thought of it before.

I don't have the knowledge to properly follow the science, but here are two articles which look at frequency range with cables

http://www.apiguide.net/04actu/04musik/AES-cableInteractions.pdf

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/cables/speaker-cable-face-off-1

May 11, 2010 at 1:51 PM
Off topic.

The bench of someone that seeks and finds awesome electrical circuits . . .

Jim Williams staff scientist at Linear Technology Corporation

May 11, 2010 at 3:57 PM
Quote:
Off topic.

The bench of someone that seeks and finds awesome electrical circuits . . .

Jim Williams staff scientist at Linear Technology Corporation

That's what I imagine the Grado RA-1 workroom looks like

May 11, 2010 at 4:02 PM
Quote:
Thank you.  I just don't have much to say to him about it and i don't want to get into an argument about what I hear or how i spend my money on my system.  I hear a difference or I would never have gone for the things I have.  I can tell you that there is one type of cable that I have not heard a difference in and I wasted my money, that is my usb interconnect to my dac.  If i had placebo effect, I would insist there was a difference in that too.  If there is a slight one I can't hear it.  On my headphones recables the difference is extreme though between copper and silver on both the ones that i can remove and go back and forth(for the HD800 and HD650).  If you or anyone else doesn't like or doesn't believe it then i could care less so just "uh huh",,,,,there wasn't much more for me to say about it.

I have worked like crazy to get a sound I like out of my system and I encourage you and the other with his comments to do the same, if you don't think cable changes anything, then put your cash toward a different component that you can hear a difference, but beware someone else may not.

Then go elsewhere?  This isn't a cable impression thread, you have those in your own "DBT FREE" cable sub-forum.  You're completely free to leave your spam there if you choose, I couldn't give a crap since I don't go there to troll like you apparently come here to.

You keep saying there's a difference, then prove it since it's so obvious to you.  All I hear are a bunch of children plugging their ears and go "nuh-uh, I don't wanna!" and claim the burden of proof is upon us that make no claims (though remain skeptical).

May 11, 2010 at 5:10 PM
May 11, 2010 at 10:27 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Thank you.  I just don't have much to say to him about it and i don't want to get into an argument about what I hear or how i spend my money on my system.  I hear a difference or I would never have gone for the things I have.  I can tell you that there is one type of cable that I have not heard a difference in and I wasted my money, that is my usb interconnect to my dac.  If i had placebo effect, I would insist there was a difference in that too.  If there is a slight one I can't hear it.  On my headphones recables the difference is extreme though between copper and silver on both the ones that i can remove and go back and forth(for the HD800 and HD650).  If you or anyone else doesn't like or doesn't believe it then i could care less so just "uh huh",,,,,there wasn't much more for me to say about it.

I have worked like crazy to get a sound I like out of my system and I encourage you and the other with his comments to do the same, if you don't think cable changes anything, then put your cash toward a different component that you can hear a difference, but beware someone else may not.

Then go elsewhere?  This isn't a cable impression thread, you have those in your own "DBT FREE" cable sub-forum.  You're completely free to leave your spam there if you choose, I couldn't give a crap since I don't go there to troll like you apparently come here to.

You keep saying there's a difference, then prove it since it's so obvious to you.  All I hear are a bunch of children plugging their ears and go "nuh-uh, I don't wanna!" and claim the burden of proof is upon us that make no claims (though remain skeptical).

Troll? First time I have been accused of that.  I was elaborating on the comment I made that was short due to the fact I didn't want to get into an argument about it.  Reason being, I don't want to convince anyone, that is the point. The poster thanked me for elaborating my position too(see below).

As far as posting goes, the science forum is not your own private area and I will post where ever I want,  just you stating that kinda shows who the troll is.

May 11, 2010 at 10:32 PM

Quote:
See, you should have posted this before, instead of "Uh huh". This is, no sarcasm intended, a very good post. It's also one echoed by severals others in both camps already, so please don't think that all the scientists are trying to take away your right to enjoy cables. I can't remember if I posted this thought before or not, but I've certainly agreed with it.

For me, my money is better spent elsewhere until it can be proved that cables can at least change the signal by an audible degree and significantly enough that it could be subjectively considered an "improvement". My purchase of the LC-1 cable from BJC did nothing to my ears, which may not be the sharpest but could certainly make out a worthy difference between the uDAC and a sound card. And if a \$38 does absolutely nothing, then I do not trust handing over \$500 for something that "will, we promise".

You are free to spend on what you want. Whether or not the change is real, if you can hear it then it may be worth it to you. I didn't hear it, and I'd like to understand why.

This is the comment after my post of clarification.  We are allowed to discuss things here you know Shike not just one sided back slapping and whining.

May 11, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Quote:
Troll? First time I have been accused of that.  I was elaborating on the comment I made that was short due to the fact I didn't want to get into an argument about it.  Reason being, I don't want to convince anyone, that is the point. The poster thanked me for elaborating my position too.  As far as posting goes, the science forum is not your own private area and I will post where ever I want,  just you stating that kinda shows who the troll is.

If you don't want to convince anyone, why are you posting in a thread whose title asks that very question?  Is there any answer to that question that does not involve you living under a bridge?

May 11, 2010 at 10:39 PM

Quote:
If you don't want to convince anyone, why are you posting in a thread whose title asks that very question?  Is there any answer to that question that does not involve you living under a bridge?

Because i think it is a funny premise for a thread.

May 11, 2010 at 10:48 PM
Quote:
Troll? First time I have been accused of that.  I was elaborating on the comment I made that was short due to the fact I didn't want to get into an argument about it.  Reason being, I don't want to convince anyone, that is the point. The poster thanked me for elaborating my position too(see below).

As far as posting goes, the science forum is not your own private area and I will post where ever I want,  just you stating that kinda shows who the troll is.

I could care less if Head Injury thanked you.  The president of the US could thank you and I wouldn't care.  Your post was spam, and you admittedly have zero interest in this thread.

You don't want to convince anyone, but you come in here spouting your impressions.  This thread isn't about you or your impressions sparky.

You're right, it's not my own private area and never claimed it was.  On the other hand there's this thing called a topic, and your posts haven't really added to it.

Besides this:

Quote:
Because i think it is a funny premise for a thread.

Shows you have no interest in the topic at hand.

May 11, 2010 at 10:58 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Troll? First time I have been accused of that.  I was elaborating on the comment I made that was short due to the fact I didn't want to get into an argument about it.  Reason being, I don't want to convince anyone, that is the point. The poster thanked me for elaborating my position too(see below).

As far as posting goes, the science forum is not your own private area and I will post where ever I want,  just you stating that kinda shows who the troll is.

I could care less if Head Injury thanked you.  The president of the US could thank you and I wouldn't care.  Your post was spam, and you admittedly have zero interest in this thread.

You don't want to convince anyone, but you come in here spouting your impressions.  This thread isn't about you or your impressions sparky.

You're right, it's not my own private area and never claimed it was.  On the other hand there's this thing called a topic, and your posts haven't really added to it.

Besides this:

Quote:
Because i think it is a funny premise for a thread.

Shows you have no interest in the topic at hand.

"Sparky"  Okay son, I think the premise of trying to convince someone that what they are hearing isn't so is funny, that doesn't mean the topic doesn't interest me kid.

Head Injury thanked me and he was who I was responding to so it did mean something to me, the person who I was communicating with at that point, who cares if you don't like the comments.

As far as impressions go and the premise of this thread,  if you are trying to convince someone that cables don't make a difference then you are going to have to address those impressions so it is a totally valid topic of discussion as well.

Status
Not open for further replies.