[milkpowder]

Nate, I don't wish to start a war here!

Thanks Ray for the clarification!

Here's a newbie question from me

I often read claims that adding an amp to a line-out (eg iPod) takes away the hiss. Why is this? I thought hiss in -> amplifier -> more hiss out, or is there something to do with Zload:Zsource?

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptionTrader /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL. Yeah, the test would have been quite extreme had I not used a "silence" file to play for the test. I'd have to ask Ray about the Hornet gain, but the Predator's max gain is 11. When listening to music, they seem similar. If it turns out that the gains are significantly different between the two, I would have to agree that the test would perhaps be pointless. In any case, both of the amps are extremely quiet.

Sounds like you're answering my question: if I don't need the DAC feature, then do you think the Hornet will sound about as good as the Predator???

 

[webbie64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's a newbie question from me I often read claims that adding an amp to a line-out (eg iPod) takes away the hiss. Why is this? I thought hiss in -> amplifier -> more hiss out, or is there something to do with Zload:Zsource?

Milkpowder,

I'm no expert here but I believe it has to do with the way the amplifier attenuates the signal. It effectively eliminates the hiss whilst boosting the signal.

Like I said, I'm no expert so I can't explain how BUT I can confirm it works

Like oicdn I can hear hiss through the Livewires with all my RSA amps (SR-71, Hornet M, Hornet OG, Tomahawk, each to varying degrees) BUT only at what would be approaching maximum volume - which obviously I only hear without a signal going through ATST

Even then, though, the hiss is far less than that I get direct from either the iRiver H140 or the Sony NW-HD5.

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by webbie64 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Milkpowder, I'm no expert here but I believe it has to do with the way the amplifier attenuates the signal. It effectively eliminates the hiss whilst boosting the signal. Like I said, I'm no expert so I can't explain how BUT I can confirm it works Like oicdn I can hear hiss through the Livewires with all my RSA amps (SR-71, Hornet M, Hornet OG, Tomahawk, each to varying degrees) BUT only at what would be approaching maximum volume - which obviously I only hear without a signal going through ATST Even then, though, the hiss is far less than that I get direct from either the iRiver H140 or the Sony NW-HD5.

this is not a "slam to OICDN, but I loaned him my Portaphile for a review he was doing and he said he heard hiss in it too. I've never heard hiss in it or any of RSA ampsm, altho Idon't listen very loudly and I'm using ety4p and Beyer 880s. So could be the loudness level and the 'phones I use

 

[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnmike1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif this is not a "slam to OICDN, but I loaned him my Portaphile for a review he was doing and he said he heard hiss in it too. I've never heard hiss in it or any of RSA ampsm, altho Idon't listen very loudly and I'm using ety4p and Beyer 880s. So could be the loudness level and the 'phones I use

I'm not the only one who hears hiss in RSA amps, mrarroyo and Vorolon1 also hear hiss in all of them. Mrarroyo AFAIK listens at lower levels, but I can't speak for how loud Vorlon listens at. There are others I remember stating the same thing. And all are to varying degrees of audibility.

The hiss also gets louder when you switch gain modes. i.e. it's VERY VERY hard to hear in low gain, but becomes more noticeable when you switch modes, albeit it's still fairly subtle.

I listen at a moderate level, loud enough to get my foot tapping and ignore everything else, but not loud enough to cause hearing damage over extended listening.

When I'm hearing the hiss is on black moments, or when there's gaps between songs. It's only when I'm critical listening, it's not like 2nd gen shuffle hiss and audible all the time. I know there's a hiss when I can hit pause, and pull my headphones out and it gets BLACKER. My definition of hiss may be a little more critical than others, as I'm overly critical with most EVERYTHING. Don't call it a PITCH BLACK background if I can differentiate between when my headphones are plugged in or not on a silent moment of a song. May just be circuit noise, but it's noise none the less.

 

[webbie64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif And all are to varying degrees of audibility... ...The hiss also gets louder when you switch gain modes. i.e. it's VERY VERY hard to hear in low gain, but becomes more noticeable when you switch modes, albeit it's still fairly subtle... ...It's only when I'm critical listening, it's not like 2nd gen shuffle hiss and audible all the time...

Agreed on all counts.

 

[Podster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nate, I don't wish to start a war here! Thanks Ray for the clarification! Here's a newbie question from me I often read claims that adding an amp to a line-out (eg iPod) takes away the hiss. Why is this? I thought hiss in -> amplifier -> more hiss out, or is there something to do with Zload:Zsource?

I'm glad you brought this up Milkpowder as I'm going to do some hiss testing on both my portable tonight. As far as hiss from mini to mini is a no brainer (you are amping an amped signal and the old addage trash in trash out applies.) When it comes to amping an amped signal I'm 4 sure in the camp of an external amp is of no real SQ value but it's a whole different story on the LOD out

Promise to report my findings tomorrow, I'm now curious if the hiss Oci hears in Rays amps are coming from the amp or the source material being fed to the amp

Of course if any of you are sitting there with your amp just put some IEM's on it without source in crank it and tell us what you hear

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not the only one who hears hiss in RSA amps, mrarroyo and Vorolon1 also hear hiss in all of them. Mrarroyo AFAIK listens at lower levels, but I can't speak for how loud Vorlon listens at. There are others I remember stating the same thing. And all are to varying degrees of audibility. The hiss also gets louder when you switch gain modes. i.e. it's VERY VERY hard to hear in low gain, but becomes more noticeable when you switch modes, albeit it's still fairly subtle. I listen at a moderate level, loud enough to get my foot tapping and ignore everything else, but not loud enough to cause hearing damage over extended listening. When I'm hearing the hiss is on black moments, or when there's gaps between songs. It's only when I'm critical listening, it's not like 2nd gen shuffle hiss and audible all the time. I know there's a hiss when I can hit pause, and pull my headphones out and it gets BLACKER. My definition of hiss may be a little more critical than others, as I'm overly critical with most EVERYTHING. Don't call it a PITCH BLACK background if I can differentiate between when my headphones are plugged in or not on a silent moment of a song. May just be circuit noise, but it's noise none the less.

OK, then perhaps I should reset my amps to lo gain to eliminate the hiss?? As I believe I mentioned here, my amps stay on "hi" gain, but perhaps I should change??? actually, I hear NOTHING from my supermacro IV LE, but will try the lo gain settings on it and the Portaphile.

 

[Jalo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Podster /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm glad you brought this up Milkpowder as I'm going to do some hiss testing on both my portable tonight. As far as hiss from mini to mini is a no brainer (you are amping an amped signal and the old addage trash in trash out applies.) When it comes to amping an amped signal I'm 4 sure in the camp of an external amp is of no real SQ value but it's a whole different story on the LOD out Promise to report my findings tomorrow, I'm now curious if the hiss Oci hears in Rays amps are coming from the amp or the source material being fed to the amp Of course if any of you are sitting there with your amp just put some IEM's on it without source in crank it and tell us what you hear

Just turn on my Predator with my UE10 connected, I find the followings:

1 Input switch to Input or line in, LO gain, Super cotton dock plug into input, no noise from low to max volume.

2 Input switch to Input or line in, High gain, Super cotton dock plug into input, moderate static noise from low to max volume.

3 Input switch to Input or line in, High gain, Super cotton dock removed, some static noise from low to max volume.

4. Input switch to Input or line in, Mid gain, Super cotton dock removed, some static noise from low to max volume.

5 Input switch to USB or DAC, LO gain, Super cotton dock plug into input, no noise from low to max volume.

6 Input switch to USB or DAC, Mid and High gain, Super cotton dock plug into input, moderate noise from low to max volume.

7 Input switch to USB or DAC, Mid and High gain, Super cotton dock removed from input, some noise from low to max volume.

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnmike1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, then perhaps I should reset my amps to lo gain to eliminate the hiss?? As I believe I mentioned here, my amps stay on "hi" gain, but perhaps I should change??? actually, I hear NOTHING from my supermacro IV LE, but will try the lo gain settings on it and the Portaphile.

well, I gotta thank Nate--oicdn--for this tip. Reset amps to lo gain and "hiss"--or something like it--disappeared. Don't know if i'd call it true "hiss" but the background, esp. in solo piano stuff, is totally quiet. So thanks for that tip. Thngs really show up when you Imod, v-cap, amp and all that stuff. wonder if I woould've noticed hiss with a standard ol' basic Ipod and a cheapy erbud???

 

[fhuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnmike1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like you're answering my question: if I don't need the DAC feature, then do you think the Hornet will sound about as good as the Predator???

anybody can help him, OR me

 

[Rico67]

Hornet and Predator haven't the same sound.
Hornet is clearer, more open, warmer than the Predator.
Hornet sound like a tube Amp.
Predator is more powerful and detail than Hornet.Dynamic is higher and bass deeper.
More sensitive than the Hornet at the quality of the source.

The choice depend on your preference and synergie with your audio equipement and cables.

But as i say, they are 2 differents Amps.
Only RSA quality and signature is on both product.

It's just my mind and else opinions are welcome.

 

[Blackmore]

So, Hornet warmer than Predator, o.k., but when you say clearer and more open, I can not think of that. Tell, how do you like your GS1000 with Hornet please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico67 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hornet and Predator haven't the same sound. Hornet is clearer, more open, warmer than the Predator. Hornet sound like a tube Amp. Predator is more powerful and detail than Hornet.Dynamic is higher and bass deeper. More sensitive than the Hornet at the quality of the source. The choice depend on your preference and synergie with your audio equipement and cables. But as i say, they are 2 differents Amps. Only RSA quality and signature is on both product. It's just my mind and else opinions are welcome.

 

[Rico67]

Blackmore, it's real.
Hornet is more clearer and open than the Predator.
Hornet have less detail, dynamic and punch, but sound warmer.
it's like you compare a tube amp and an powerful electronique amp.
but it's just my experience.
I love the sound and the synergie bw Hornet and GS 1000, but compare to Predator there is a lack of detail and energie.
For short session, predator and GS1000 is fun, but for long session, i prefer hornet and GS1000 witch sound more natural and warmer.

I think it's just a question of taste, 2 are greats and predator is more sensitive with sources.
But i compare my old Hornet ( more 1000 hours on it) with my new predator witch is always in the burning process.
140 hours on it with a burning load of 10 ohms.
So maybe things'll change with more time on it, because i thing predator have the potential to surpass my hornet if only it'll become more open and sound more natural.
It's possible, because sound change always until now (see my post ), even the dynamic have increase ( it was soon at a high level out of box )...

 

[Blackmore]

I do not have any reason do not believe you, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico67 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Blackmore, it's real. Hornet is more clearer and open than the Predator. Hornet have less detail, dynamic and punch, but sound warmer. it's like you compare a tube amp and an powerful electronique amp. but it's just my experience. I love the sound and the synergie bw Hornet and GS 1000, but compare to Predator there is a lack of detail and energie. For short session, predator and GS1000 is fun, but for long session, i prefer hornet and GS1000 witch sound more natural and warmer. I think it's just a question of taste, 2 are greats and predator is more sensitive with sources. But i compare my old Hornet ( more 1000 hours on it) with my new predator witch is always in the burning process. 140 hours on it with a burning load of 10 ohms. So maybe things'll change with more time on it, because i thing predator have the potential to surpass my hornet if only it'll become more open and sound more natural. It's possible, because sound change always until now (see my post ), even the dynamic have increase ( it was soon at a high level out of box )...