Holo Audio Spring R2R DAC
Apr 30, 2022 at 2:17 PM Post #3,136 of 4,067
I've hesitated buying the Holo May DAC because of the hot 5.8 volt balanced output and possibly overloading my amp input. If I purchased a Spring 3 with it's Preamp option, could I plug it into my integrated tube amp (Balanced input) and control the level using the preamp? Are there any sonic disadvantages to this? The Line level out may work but I would like a backup plan in case it doesn't.

Yes, you can do that. I connect my Holo Spring 3 KTE (it has the preamp module), to a separate tube preamp and I use blend of the two preamps to attenuate volume. I compared to Holo direct to amp and cannot detect any loss in transparency when re-inserting my preamp. My preamp adds body, more three-dimensional holographic head stage, so it is a sonic win for me.

To be clear, the Holo preamp module is very good, so I am not suggesting anyone should buy a separate preamp. But if you have a very good quality preamp already at your disposal, experiment and see what you think. It is free to try.
 
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Apr 30, 2022 at 2:38 PM Post #3,137 of 4,067
My Spring 3 KTE will arrive next week. I will use its balanced outputs to go into my Luxman p750u headphone amplifier. I can't imagine that 5.8 volts would be that damaging. My current DAC outputs 4 volts via balanced and it's never been an issue.
Am I wrong?
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 7:57 PM Post #3,138 of 4,067
Yes, you can do that. I connect my Holo Spring 3 KTE (it has the preamp module), to a separate tube preamp and I use blend of the two preamps to attenuate volume. I compared to Holo direct to amp and cannot detect any loss in transparency when re-inserting my preamp. My preamp adds body, more three-dimensional holographic head stage, so it is a sonic win for me.

To be clear, the Holo preamp module is very good, so I am not suggesting anyone should buy a separate preamp. But if you have a very good quality preamp already at your disposal, experiment and see what you think. It is free to try.
That’s funny because I literally just did the same thing but with a tube pre from a red wine audio Isabella - the built in preamp is super transparent but solid state sounding.

Adding a tube pre has just added a lovely sound to the already remarkable spring 3 KTE. Better sound stage, more holographic presentation and that added meat to the midrange. Really lovely combination.
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 9:34 PM Post #3,139 of 4,067
Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC review
(& comparison with Denafrips Venus II)

INTRODUCTION
Everything you will find in the following review applies to my own stereo setup in my listening area and pair of my own ears. I have not tested these dacs on any other setup and it is possible that the results of the comparison may be different in another setup or/and in another listening space.

Here is my setup:
4x4m acoustically treated room
Power filter: Shunyata Hydra Triton v1
Source: Aurender N100H streamer via internal HDD library
DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, Denafrips Venus II
DDC: Denafrips Gaia, Matrix Audio X-Spdif 2
Amp: Simaudio Moon 600i
Speakers: Diapason Adamantes III 25th
Cabling: Siltech Classic Anniversary


283B895C-8CF4-488A-A7B7-6A6C44A66126.jpeg


HOLO AUDIO SPRING 3 KTE
I like appearance of Spring 3 a lot. Great build quality, nice, not too big but heavy, all metal chassis. Decent connectors on back panel, nice and responsive front buttons and display nicely readable from my listening position. Remote is also nice. The only thing I would like to change would be dedicated button for each input on remote and dimmable display (there is only on and off option).
Before I start talking about sound quality I must mention that this dac really needs quite a long time to burn in. And the difference before and after burn in is in my opinion a big one. I let it burn for 500 hours with continuous 24/7 signal from the streamer, which consisted of playlist with the same amount of frequencies based on 44.1 and 48KHz. Differences during burn in process were most notable in bass region (from “no bass” to “great bass”). For better understanding of specific burn in progress of Spring 3 I created following graph.

25AAA41B-DA06-4669-99ED-41914A8545F2.jpeg


After 500 hours of burn in I began with listening to each input except for optical (I have no decent optical cable). Inputs are definitely not equal in sound quality. Spdif Coaxial is good, same with AES/EBU. I2S is quite better than both Spdif, but for my surprise, in my current setup best sounding input is USB (directly connected with streamer).
As my streamer is USB output only, other inputs were tested using Gaia or X-Spdif 2 DDC. Unfortunately I am still not able to test I2S input via I2S output from Gaia, because, as I already mentioned in previous post, none of four Springs I2S pinouts are compatible with Gaia. There is I2S pinout function on Gaia with newest firmware, but I am still unable to flash this firmware to my unit and still resolving this issue with Vinshine Audio. So for testing of I2S input I used X-Spdif 2 DDC, which is pity, because Gaia is far better sounding DDC.
From the moment I realized USB is best sounding input (for now) I have further tested and compared Spring 3 using only this input.
EDIT: PLL function was enabled all the time on Spring 3.

Spring 3 KTE sounds really good. Very good dynamics with great details and nice soundstage. No region is emphasized. Separation of individual instruments and voices is exceptional. Voices are very real and very tightly focused. Sound character is right in the middle between analytic and euphonic. But in my opinion this focus on neutral sound character goes sometimes little bit against overall fluidity of sound as whole. There is no apparent flaw in sound quality, yet in my setup I still feel like I'm missing a little bit of smoothness. Which allegedly was not the case with previous model Spring 2. But I have not compared the two in my setup, so this is just a guess. See more detailed explanation of this in following comparison.

COMPARISON WITH DENAFRIPS VENUS II
Denafrips Venus II is exactly in the same price and quality range as Spring 3 KTE. You can consider these two as direct competitors. And indeed, in many areas these two DACs are surprisingly close in sound quality. All comparison was made in NOS mode on both devices (I have to mention I don’t care if Venus II is “true” NOS or not).
Firstly I will name the areas and characteristics which are almost the same on both:
-great dynamics and punch
-rich harmonics
-very good and similar sized soundstage (little bit wider on Venus II)
-great timing (Spring 3 little bit quicker)
-very good detail retrieval
-VERY realistic rendering of human voices
-no sign of brightness or dryness on highs

And now I'll try to explain the differences. Venus II is definitely smoother and overall sound is more fluid. At first I thought it was caused by over emphasize lower midrange and mid-bass region on Venus side. But after long listening session (and dozen switching between Spring 3 to Venus II with the same music material) I realized that it is not the case here. The amount of bass, mid-bass and low midrange is the same on both DACs, but bodies of acoustic instruments (double bass, violin, Spanish guitar) and human voices are bigger and fuller on Venus II. On the other hand same instruments and voices on Spring 3 are in better focus. So maybe more focused individual instruments (may be even too focused) and voices lead to lack of overall smoothness. On more complex recordings this is not apparent after first listening, but on recordings where there is only one or two acoustic instrument (solo double bass for example) Venus II sounds full bodied, filling all listening place, while Spring 3 sound little bit thin, but with better pinpoint location of instruments.
So this effect gives Venus II noticeable more amount of sweetness, but at the same time little bit less of transparency.

CONCLUSION
There is no clear winner between Spring 3 and Venus II. Both are excellent DACs. Venus II is more full bodied and sweet sounding, but never too sweet (as for example my previous DAC Simaudio Moon 380D was). On the other hand Spring 3 is bit more transparent, which is very useful quality for future changes of any gear in your setup. Another advantage of Spring 3 is fabulous USB input, so there is no need to use DDC. Both DACs share many great sound characteristic and differences are not big enough to name the winner.
All this of course, as I wrote at the beginning, could be system dependent, because amplification, speakers and not least - listening room plays a big role in final quality and character of sound.
I'm at around 120 hours, and I've recently noticed the first super palpable improvement, which matches Koso's helpful chart. Good, in Koso's likely more seasoned DAC world, is fabulous to me, so I'm already freaked at what R2R can organically do compared to Delta Sigma. I'm only a 1/5 up the climb...crazy
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 11:02 PM Post #3,140 of 4,067
My Spring 3 KTE will arrive next week. I will use its balanced outputs to go into my Luxman p750u headphone amplifier. I can't imagine that 5.8 volts would be that damaging. My current DAC outputs 4 volts via balanced and it's never been an issue.
Am I wrong?
I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.
 
Apr 30, 2022 at 11:04 PM Post #3,141 of 4,067
Yes, you can do that. I connect my Holo Spring 3 KTE (it has the preamp module), to a separate tube preamp and I use blend of the two preamps to attenuate volume. I compared to Holo direct to amp and cannot detect any loss in transparency when re-inserting my preamp. My preamp adds body, more three-dimensional holographic head stage, so it is a sonic win for me.

To be clear, the Holo preamp module is very good, so I am not suggesting anyone should buy a separate preamp. But if you have a very good quality preamp already at your disposal, experiment and see what you think. It is free to try.

Thanks for posting this. I guess its trial and error then on where the volume should be and will need to be set by ear. I would have no idea where 4 volts or near that would be.
 
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Apr 30, 2022 at 11:13 PM Post #3,142 of 4,067
I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.
Buy some XLR attenuators?
 
May 1, 2022 at 7:12 AM Post #3,143 of 4,067
I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.
Many preamps have a 7,8 or 9 volt output to an amplifier but the 5.8 volts to my headphone amplifier will be too much?
 
May 1, 2022 at 10:58 AM Post #3,145 of 4,067
I am about to buy a headphone tube amp, but I am wondering if the 11.6Vrms XLR output of the KTE preamp will be an issue.

If I turn down the preamp volume, will that help alleviate clipping issues?

I did non-scientific testing over the past few days, what I say is just going to be my opinion based on my subjective hearing, take it with a grain of salt.

First I must admit, at the start when I started noticing some distortions, I thought it was the power mismatch, but upon testing my other old dacs (schiit modi, topping d70), the distortions still appeared to be there, so I suspect its most likely just the songs. The brain is one hell of a drug.

There was a very minute difference when used 100% of the preamp's power (the full 11.6 vrms) into my FA-10 at step 100 vs step 80. I attempted to volume match the headphone's volume to the decreasing preamp volume, but as I don't have a proper multimeter or a good db measurement tool, I cannot prove it in full certainty.

Likewise, I dugout my old schiit magni and tested the preamp via RCA outputs, its behavior seems to be quite similar to a schiit modi in terms of distortion at max levels.

The obvious problem I have now is that both my unscientific tests are using solid state amplifiers, I don't know how true these will perform with tube amps (I am getting a Cayin HA-300b mk2, would be a shame if they didn't sound as good as when I tried them at my vendor's)

Reading and asking around, I do believe that lowering the preamp's volume will be sufficient to meet the common 4 to 6vrms input window, the problem is ascertaining which step actually fits the bill (any one of you fine gentlemen wanna get a good multimeter ? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ).

That said, I fully believe that the preamp module is competent, but I wish there was a bypass option.
 
May 1, 2022 at 11:00 AM Post #3,146 of 4,067
Many preamps have a 7,8 or 9 volt output to an amplifier but the 5.8 volts to my headphone amplifier will be too much?

But I'm talking about a DAC output, not a preamp output. Normally DACS have a line level fixed output. Preamps are normally used to drive power amplifiers, not necessarily integrated amp inputs since integrated amps already have a preamp. I've never seen a DAC with over 6 volts on XLR, especially since the standard is pretty much 4 volts.
 
May 1, 2022 at 11:02 AM Post #3,147 of 4,067
May 1, 2022 at 11:40 AM Post #3,149 of 4,067
I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.
For example,
Let's take a look at Chord, another very popular brand.

Chord Dave dac mode
-> 3 V unbalanced and 6 V balanced
(You can find this information in Chord Dave's user manual chapter 6.4 DAC mode)
https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Dave-User-manual-V1.1.pdf

I also have no idea about, if this is big problem, why Chord set 6 V balanced on Dave's dac mode?
Why Holo set 5.8V balanced on Spring3?
 
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May 1, 2022 at 1:10 PM Post #3,150 of 4,067
Both Chord Dave and Holo are outside the range of typical audio application. 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced have been the standard for decades now. Driving higher input voltage into preamp may clip some preamps.
 

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