Hmmm...guess burn-in is real...
Jun 10, 2006 at 10:21 PM Post #181 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoobies
Electrons forming a path? Current flows or it doesn't. It doesn't "kinda flow" or "sort of flow." I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at.


I'm just talking bollocks, ignore me
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my head is full of this crap atm:

Full paper here

Visual evidence such as nitrogen fluorescence confirms the presence of low-level energetic electron beams emanating from a localized position or positions. These beam electrons are collisionally produced knock-on electrons. The spilling electrons form a beam path that bends due to the weak stray field surrounding the plasmoid. The collision rate of beam currents with thermal electrons at the inside Mantle’s edge is proportional to the knock-on beam currents (amperage) ejected from the Mantle. It is possible to measure this emerging beam current using the current’s induction effect on the rotation of polarized laser light induced within well-placed multi-turn fiber optics loops that surround the emerging beam. This same technique applies to the measurement of slowly time changing external (stray poloidal) field in the surrounding blanket. This is the residual field that was created by diffusion early in formation when the sheath was resistive.

Occasionally, acceleration or jerk (d<acceleration>/dt) is induced by inductive effects of residual formation current that repels the forming plasmoid. As the forming plasmoid becomes hyperconducting, any infiltrating field produced by the continuing current is forced out, producing a sudden reaction force or jerk. Here the bubble thin bow-shock wave generates a bright flash that obscures the flying plasmoid within. The plasmoid has reached an upward velocity of 50 kilometers per second. This demonstrates that the effect of a sharp one-dimensional acceleration is not disabling. The jerk was applied only for a couple of centimeters or less. Next Step Experimental Program The next experimental effort will be to form PMKs with substantially higher energy (25cm diameter at STP in atmospheric air) and with a static lifetime of one to five seconds. The capacitor storage bank will be operated at 10 to 16 kV, and, the use of a large solid-state crowbar will allow for longer and more reliable runaway electron acceleration time.

The presently existing Pulse Forming Network (PFN) includes a five hundred microfarad bank rated at 20kV with the high energy density section rated at 22.5 kiloVolts. To produce the enhanced PMKs, the bank will be operated at up to 85 percent of maximum rated voltage. An additional restriction on “Current Versus Time” for the high energy density section is that the current from each capacitor will be limited to a maximum, not to exceed 50 kilo-Amperes. In addition, each of these capacitors will be fitted in parallel with both a fuse (to limit peak current) and a resistor (to soak stored energy if the fuse interrupts the main discharge current). The resistor will be inductively wound and of sufficient energy rating to handle the energy soak up with a safety factor of three. All energy storage capacitors will discharge through a pulse forming LiCjnetwork and rail-gap switch. The current will then feed into the HID with a slight delay after the front-end capacitor discharge. The high-speed front-end capacitor will feed directly into a coaxial spark gap switch to produce a preferred fast rise time current into the coaxial HID. Once the current reaches a peak value, then a large semiconductor crowbar will fire, preventing the current discharge from recharging the energy storage capacitors and extending the flow of current through the forming plasmoid. This will allow runaway currents to reach and exceed relativistic values. It will also allow the forming plasmoid to efficiently capture magnetic energy stored within the plasmoid and provide the desired size of the fully formed PMK. Using this PFN, Prometheus II will produce PMKs approximately 25 cm in size and with lifetimes of 1 to 5 seconds. The PMK as an Innovative Confinement Engine for Fusion We anticipate the production of soccer ball or basketball sized, long-lived ( 1 to 5 seconds), highly compressible and efficiently acceleratable, high internal energy magnetoplasmoids. If formed of fusionable fuel, the PMK is ideally suited as an MTF target that is capable of being mechanically fluid compression heated within a boron burn chamber. The system’s compactness, simplicity, and efficiency may allow cycled operation at sixty Hertz. Direct injection of the aneutronically heated compression blanket through an Inductive MHD generator will produce electric power with exceptionally high efficiency.

Total bollocks.
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 4:25 AM Post #183 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb
Enough said - absurdity has met its match. Todd, Tyl, AKG, and Ultrasone will be glad to know your opinon of their "listener impressions." So will the University of Helsinki and all their hard data on headphone data. Apparently, they had another HATS (Head And Torso Simulator) they didn't know about.
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Just what is it about the term "hard data" that you're not understanding? I'm not talking about materials properties, esoteric engineering discussions, or pretty calculations. There hasn't been a single bit of CONCRETE information posted in this thread showing data that represents measurable audio changes in headphones, cables, or amplifiers that proves or disproves that burn-in of these devices exists. If there has been and I've missed it then please, post a link. Otherwise, we can do without the sanctimony and the name dropping. And might I point out that everyone you mentioned (other than the U of H) has a vested interest in selling headphones, cables, or amplifiers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb
P.S. No offense, but if you choose not to materially participate in a discussion, you are better off not posting at all.


I'm not materially participating? Why, because I don't agree with you?
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Please. All I'm saying is show me the money. Why do you feel that's an unreasonable position to take? Burn-in has been debated to DEATH. These arguments, pro and con, have all been heard before. Do you really think that this thread is breaking any new ground regarding the subject? Hardly.
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 5:22 AM Post #184 of 278
Darn it, this thread's topic is worthless; you have violated TOS #8! We don't want opinions; we need FACTS!

lol this is what one gets after spending three hours @ Hydrogen Audio.

Man, good thing the HA peeps don't run this place...they'd be blown out from the burn-in theory.
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 5:46 AM Post #185 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by spinali
I'm not a Senn guy, but I've been curious about these. Have the phones broken-in satisfactorily since your first post? How would you describe the sound? Please update us.


I don't notice anything different at this point. It was really just the bass that was giving problems. And I don't know how to describe the sound...
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 5:55 AM Post #186 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by AtheisticFreedom
Darn it, this thread's topic is worthless; you have violated TOS #8! We don't want opinions; we need FACTS!

lol this is what one gets after spending three hours @ Hydrogen Audio.

Man, good thing the HA peeps don't run this place...they'd be blown out from the burn-in theory.



I dont think the HA people would have a problem with the hypothesis of burn-in, but would ask for some objective evidence, instead of all this useless wordage and platonic non-science (say that last hyphenated word quickly and you will get my meaning).

h
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 6:40 AM Post #188 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by EightyOne
I don't understand what kind of science you'd expect. All I can say is that the bass used to be:

BRMMRMMRMMRMMRMM

Now it's a nice:

BMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

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I guess where we have to disagree is that I think your subjective observations (that is the BRMBRM to BMMMM bit) is not to be trusted. It is not that I dont trust you specifically. I have just seen too much evidence that humans are easily fooled and their memories are not to be trusted. This includes me.

So I want an objective test.

To test this on you I want 10 pair of burnt in headphones (BI), and 10 not burnt in ones (NBI).

You get a pair of headphones, one BI and one NBI, and you listen to them, and know which you are listening to. Then you are given one of that pair randomly, and you dont know which it is.

You have to listen to it and say which it is.

If you get it right 8 times out of the 10 pair, then I will think you are on to something.

But if you tell me that you remember the sound differently, I will still think you have more work to do to convince me.

h
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 6:44 AM Post #189 of 278
Well, I must admit this is better time spent fighting over the existence of burn-in instead of the existence of God.
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Maybe this post will be the catalyst to closing the thread...it's gotten way out of hand anyway.
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 6:48 AM Post #190 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by AtheisticFreedom
Well, I must admit this is better time spent fighting over the existence of burn-in instead of the existence of God.
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I think the evidence presented to demonstrate the existance of burn-in by its proponents in this thread is of roughly the same quality of that presented for the existance of god......

h
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 6:52 AM Post #191 of 278
Naw, God exists; I'm just joking around. Ever see South Park? Man, and I thought my last gf looked bad...
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Jun 11, 2006 at 7:18 AM Post #192 of 278
Quote:

Naw, God exists; I'm just joking around. Ever see South Park? Man, and I thought my last gf looked bad...


The only thing is that, in South Park, the only souls that get to go to heaven are Mormons.

Fittingly, sometimes reading this thread is like experiencing hell.
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Jun 11, 2006 at 7:42 AM Post #193 of 278
Horse guy, why not just conduct the test for yourself? I'm not out to convince anyone, and I couldn't care less what anyone else believed. I used to think that the people who said burn-in is real were also full of it, but it's right there in my face. *shrug*

I know I don't have a perfect memory, but any fool can remember something sounding so bad one day that they are forced to put it away, while being able to listen to it contentedly the next. This isn't an issue of getting "used to" anything (unless someone intends to seriously argue that I can adjust to warbly bass in what amounted to less than half a day of actual listening time), nor do I have psychological desire to believe in any improvement--I can return them in 30 days, and I will do so if I think it should be, just like I did with my K701 (which is supposedly a better pair of headphones, although I think it's a piece of ****).
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 8:28 AM Post #194 of 278
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb
No harshness intended, and it certainly wasn't in reply to anything you posted. I probably let my frustration show at someone's insistence of essentially claiming to know more than the headphone mfrs and suppliers themselves.
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Prejudice exists in many technical discussions. It is also an accurate way to describe consumer preferences about headphones, for instance. It wasn't meant in any way outside of that context.



See, this kind of topics are funny. Having prejudices has opposite meanings if the discussion is taking place in a scientific or profession-audio environments and in audiophile forums. The only thing I could define prejudice is when someone show me scientific proves, accepted by the majority of the scientific world and I don't want to see it. I can't call prejudice the fact someone's opionion is different than mine, while we are discussing about our listening experience. The latter case is exactly like talking about what is your favourite city to live in and I post you a lot of links about how wonderful is San Francisco climate.
 
Jun 11, 2006 at 8:22 PM Post #195 of 278
Anyone who says burn-in is not real has GOT to be crazy.

When I first got my DT880 and K701, bass was anemic on both. The bass is still kinda anemic on the K701 (how long does it take?!), but relative to the K701 the DT880 is now a bass beast. There's no comparison. Its highs have also developed greater power as well.

So if someone told me "That's not burn-in, it's a psychological effect or placebo!" I'd look at them as if they'd lost their mind.
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