[491326]

in general, like really general, (there are many cables that buck the trend) yes, in a sense. thick silver cables like the hydra that ive tried seems to tend to be more balanced thsn the typical bright silver but ymmv

thanks! could you list some of the cables that break that trend? thanks again!

 

[tim0chan]

thanks! could you list some of the cables that break that trend? thanks again!

Effect audio ares ii, the ares ii is a copper cable that's more energetic in the treble while the + ver(thicker) sounds warmer.

 

[Deezel177]

I'm still not experienced with cables partially due to budgeting reasons, but I wanted to ask about ways a cable changes based off wire count. I read somewhere that with the same material type, a cable loses its sound characteristics as the wire count increases, more so with copper cables. However, I'm more interested in trying out a silver cable so I wanted to ask. In general, do silver cables lose their sound characteristics as wire count increases?

As wire count increases, in my experience, what you’ll hear is better extension on both ends, resulting in significant improvements in headroom. I’ve used this analogy before, but it sounds like the same band playing in a bigger venue. The instruments stay the same in terms of location and size, but there’s more freedom and air within that stage that makes the entirety of the band infinitely easier to listen to and absorb.

With regards to how it affects a specific flavour or characteristic, I think it depends on what colouration it is in the first place. In my review of the 8-wire Lionheart, I described the sound as gaining more air to breathe, but losing the rich euphony and cohesion that defined the 4-wire's signature. This is because that feeling of closeness and musicality is directly related to how the wire count increase affects the stage. On the other hand, you have wires like the Ares II where the 8-wire version retains the natural tonality of the 4-wire with the increased headroom of the stage. So, it's highly dependent, but the only constant I've found - again - is increased headroom due to bidirectional extension.

 

[twister6]

As wire count increases, in my experience, what you’ll hear is better extension on both ends, resulting in significant improvements in headroom. I’ve used this analogy before, but it sounds like the same band playing in a bigger venue. The instruments stay the same in terms of location and size, but there’s more freedom and air within that stage that makes the entirety of the band infinitely easier to listen to and absorb.

With regards to how it affects a specific flavour or characteristic, I think it depends on what colouration it is in the first place. In my review of the 8-wire Lionheart, I described the sound as gaining more air to breathe, but losing the rich euphony and cohesion that defined the 4-wire's signature. This is because that feeling of closeness and musicality is directly related to how the wire count increase affects the stage. On the other hand, you have wires like the Ares II where the 8-wire version retains the natural tonality of the 4-wire with the increased headroom of the stage. So, it's highly dependent, but the only constant I've found - again - is increased headroom due to bidirectional extension.

Another important factor, as wire count goes up, cross section area of signal flow increases, and the impedance of the cable decreases. Material of the cable is important and will contribute, especially when you consider skin-effect (electric signal travels on the surface, not the core of the wire) of the plated wires, but what even more important is impedance measurement of the drivers/crossover across FR which in many cases is not constant and it will affect the sound in combination with output impedance of the source. The spec manufacturers provide of iem impedance is usually a number at one specific frequency, while it could actually vary across FR.

 

[olddude]

More wires more money. Thicker wires more money. Like everything else here, what YOU hear with YOUR equipment may be different from other's experience, as all of us hear differently and most of us use different equipment and have different sound signature needs. I have had the Ares ll and the Ares ll+, and they are indeed very different (although both 4-wire). The + was thicker in circumference, quite a beautiful cable. The sound? Less treble, more bottom-end. I thought it had a very apparent bass floor (the area below the mids), where the Ares ll is fairly well-balanced. The Ares ll 8-wire is very much like the Ares ll 4-wire except for, as mentioned above, all of the space the instruments and voices have to work in. It seems to me that I can hear more (which makes sense as everything has more room), and it feels a bit more impactful in the mids and below, which is probably for the same reason. It loses a bit of intimacy because of its space, but, depending on your music, it's no great loss. I've spent the past few days listening to the 8-wire using a wide (wide!) variety of my music and I've only found a few tracks or albums that aren't improved by it. And some of them just need some brain burn-in to get used to the differences. The cable itself is certainly thicker, but it is more solid and supple than is the 4-wire. Cables are one of the trickiest things to get into with your audio, as they can really change the sound in good ways or bad. I sold my Ares+ after a week, great cable but not for me. I had a Moon Silver Dragon for my Angie which sounded fantastic with my AK240ss but got really tinny-sounding in the upper end with the Astell SP1000ss. There is a certain amount of guesswork involved in choosing an upgrade, cable even when people tell you what they hear with it. Sometimes you just have to buy one and hear for yourself. The nice thing about Head-fi is you can always sell what you bought to someone else who will really like it even if you don't.

 

[SeeSax]

Another important factor, as wire count goes up, cross section area of signal flow increases, and the impedance of the cable decreases. Material of the cable is important and will contribute, especially when you consider skin-effect (electric signal travels on the surface, not the core of the wire) of the plated wires, but what even more important is impedance measurement of the drivers/crossover across FR which in many cases is not constant and it will affect the sound in combination with output impedance of the source. The spec manufacturers provide of iem impedance is usually a number at one specific frequency, while it could actually vary across FR.

This is an interesting point. Any idea how significant the decrease in impedance is? The reason I ask is that I use a Rhapsodio Zombie IEM (among tons of others) which is listed as 6ohm and have recently "upgraded" them to an 8-wire cable from a 4-wire cable. I was not blown away by the changes to say the least and I think I actually prefer the 4-wire cable. Interestingly, the cables are identical and from the same manufacturer and only differ in wire count. I guess you could say that I unreasonably expected my experience to be better with more wires

-Collin-

 

[twister6]

This is an interesting point. Any idea how significant the decrease in impedance is? The reason I ask is that I use a Rhapsodio Zombie IEM (among tons of others) which is listed as 6ohm and have recently "upgraded" them to an 8-wire cable from a 4-wire cable. I was not blown away by the changes to say the least and I think I actually prefer the 4-wire cable. Interestingly, the cables are identical and from the same manufacturer and only differ in wire count. I guess you could say that I unreasonably expected my experience to be better with more wires

-Collin-

Impedance decrease is something that needs to be measured, and it will depend on the type of wires material and the solder (everything contributes to extra resistance). Regarding the sound changes, too many variables in that equation, but one thing for sure - more wires or more expensive cable doesn't guarantee a better performance. I came across some pair ups where I set aside $2k 1960 4wire in favor of something like $500 Lionheart or $150 Ares II or No 5. There are formulas to factor in output impedance of the source, impedance of the wires, impedance of IEMs, etc., but at the end of the day it's your ears and good old trial'n'error cable rolling to find the best pair up synergy with everything you got. It's the same way how you look at similar shaped FRs of different IEMs and can kind of predict the direction of tuning, but they will still sound different despite "looking" the same.

 

[audio123]

Next up are reviews of all the Penon Cables. Enjoy reading!

CS819: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/06/11/penon-cs819/

OS849: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/10/22/penon-os849/

GS849: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/penon-gs849/

 

[honeyjjack]

Ermmmmm effect audio uses mundorf solder. Idk abt the alo. Pls RMB the sound is also affected by the solder

I will be using WBT 4% solder. Wonder if this should be fine or if i should go for mundorf.

 

[tim0chan]

I will be using WBT 4% solder. Wonder if this should be fine or if i should go for mundorf.

Id recommend following the manufacturer cos any changes will screw with the sound. Like how I tried to Diy my own plussound X series cable with mundorf, it backfired horribly, so I went with a different solder to fix it

 

[Blommen]

Guys, you who have access to and have tried a lot of cables, what cable will give me the most holographic /3d soundstage while still retaining bass and smooth highs??

I have just sold my Lionheart as I found it too mid focused for me and not a great pair with the EE Vantage, the Ares II actually sounds better here to me.

I am considering just getting a 8-wire Ares II or a Thor II 8-wire, which is prob the limit of my budget, 800$ - ish

Thanks!

 

[tim0chan]

Guys, you who have access to and have tried a lot of cables, what cable will give me the most holographic /3d soundstage while still retaining bass and smooth highs??

I have just sold my Lionheart as I found it too mid focused for me and not a great pair with the EE Vantage, the Ares II actually sounds better here to me.

I am considering just getting a 8-wire Ares II or a Thor II 8-wire, which is prob the limit of my budget, 800$ - ish

Thanks!

@PinkyPowers would recommend the thor if im not wrong. I second that recommendation.

 

[artpiggo]

There are various types of solder sold in the market both worldwide and Japan-orient. I have once obsessed with solder rolling by using ve monk to try out the sound differences. I know the methodology/temperature of soldering is also taken into consideration. But I would like to share for whoever interested in choosing solder. YMMV

Inter Brand
1. WBT: It is like plain milk. there is no add in any frequency. The most flat sounding solder.
2. Mundorf: It is "highly" upper-mid centric solder. If your IEM is bassy and you want some sparkles, this solder is for your consideration
3. Cardas: Sound like WBT but a little bit more in Bass, a little bit sweeter in mid
4. Viablue: It adds a little in treble until mid bass. seems to be very natural sounding solder. It is like mundorf but not have 'edges' like mundorf. Best match with its own viablu plug
5. Oyaide: Only adds treble, mid becomes no meaty, bass is reduced. In sum, least fav solder for me.
6. Wonder: The cheapest solder. warm mid but soundstage is reduced. (It is ok because it is half cheaper than oyaide)
7. Ranko1020 It is like Cardas but tighter bass and thicker mid
8. Furutech adds mid to subbass but not sparkle treble. For those who want more impact

Japan-grade
7. Rosenkranz: vivid sounding, a boost in treble and mid. not much bass
8. HUM: For me, best sounding ever, Good amount of bass and treble, natural vocal, fun sounding, not too plain/bright/bassy. Feel a little warmer..like tube.
9. Platinum gold nikkas: It is like mixing between Rosen and HUM. But towards Rosen side. Vocal is better than Rosen but not euphonic as HUM.

Again it needs to match with plug&connectors as well. YMMV.
However, I do believe that plugs/connector/solder comes with factory and manufacturer. That is the best sounding they can provide already. Solder rolling is just for those who don't have anything to upgrade but still have money to waste.

 

[491326]

i never paid much attention to dhc cables, but i was looking at their symbiote elite 19 and im particularly interested in the fusion cable off silver and copper. Anyone ever owned it? i cant really find that many reviews on it

 

[tim0chan]

i never paid much attention to dhc cables, but i was looking at their symbiote elite 19 and im particularly interested in the fusion cable off silver and copper. Anyone ever owned it? i cant really find that many reviews on it

I have their newest cable, the dhc clone fusion. It sounds really good, very transparent and the decay sounds very accurate