[huxleyhawke]

Hi everyone. I've lurked on this forum for a while and decided to make an account because I really need some advice. I wasn't able to find exactly what I was looking for.

I listen to a lot of electronic music. Mainly electro, future bounce, future house etc.

Are there any headphones out there that fulfill most of the criteria below?
1. Have a detailed punchy bass without sounding muddy
2. Have a bit of a V-shaped signature
3. Have detailed highs without being fatiguing
4. Can be cranked up to very loud volumes without distorting (I know it's almost a sin around here, but I like it loud some times)
5. are comfortable enough to wear for hours

Even though I love bass, I don't want it to drown out the rest of the frequencies too much.

My current headphones are the Hifiman Sundara paired with an Arcam rHead. I really like how they sound except that the bass is too flat for me. I tried to EQ them but that didn't work very well. I've also owned a pair of sennheiser HD25s, which I thought sounded pretty fun even though they were far from perfect.

These are the models I've been looking into buying:
-Fostex TH-900
-Sony MDR-Z1R
-Denon AH-D7200
-Audeze LCD-X or XC (I've heard that they aren't very comfortable though)
-ultrasone pro 900

Closed or open doesn't matter too much to be, but I prefer over ear

Are there any cans I should know about that that might suit my needs better?

Thank you so much for reading this wall of text. Sorry for being a bit of a newbie.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi everyone. I've lurked on this forum for a while and decided to make an account because I really need some advice. I wasn't able to find exactly what I was looking for.

I listen to a lot of electronic music. Mainly electro, future bounce, future house etc.

Are there any headphones out there that fulfill most of the criteria below?

Beyerdynamic T5p or AKG K712

That said...

1. Have a detailed punchy bass without sounding muddy

That's partly on the amp. Given a driver with a diaphragm that isn't total crap, the amp controls how the diaphragm moves.

It's kind of like how you can build a car or a bike with a stiff and light chassis, good suspension geometry, good suspension mechanicals, good steering, etc, but the quality of the engine and transmission isn't just for going in a straight line or top speed. Those also determine how you can go around corners once you get back on the throttle.

3. Have detailed highs without being fatiguing

I'm confused.

Do you want what people call "V-shaped" or do you want non-fatiguing?

"V-shaped" ie like a cursive V (may trail off below 50hz, but everything between 50hz and 150hz is boosted, along with 4000hz to roughly 10000hz) or just an absolute V implies that the treble is boosted.

Boost that and the cymbals tend to get moved forward, sounding like they're right outside your ears. If anything the HD800 can register a boost there but it's not necessarily fatiguing since its imaging is good, ie, the cymbals are still pushed back instead of sounding like they're crashing right outside the ear canals or by your temples, but that's because they image well enough.

Add to that how some people want V-shaped because anything that isn't sounds dull, while there are those who can feel like a relatively flat but still somewhat stronger than midrange response treble just grazes instead of stabs their ears outright.

4. Can be cranked up to very loud volumes without distorting (I know it's almost a sin around here, but I like it loud some times)

First off...it's not automatically a sin. What would everyone be doing with 3watt per channel amplifiers, even for anything with sensitivity well over 90dB/1mW? Cranking it isn't automatically bad. You just need to avoid clipping to not destroy the headphone drivers or the sound; you just need to avoid distortion to not destroy the sound; and you need to avoid insanely high output or high output for too long. Cranking it up for a couple of songs at a time is fine.

Second, this isn't up to the headphone beyond the drivers' capability to resist physical deformation while moving and sensitivity. It's mostly up to the amp. The best a headphone can do is not have really crappy driver design and maybe have high sensitivity so as to make the most out of what power it does get. All this though screws up the balance between the driver being tough, the driver being easy to move, and the driver being affordable, plus whether the driver has the sound you want. As it is you want a "V-shape" as opposed to "generally flat," so while the HE400S has low impedance but very high sensitivity like a Grado, has a response like an HD600 with much lower impedance and a wider flatter response than a Grado, doesn't etc, it's not a "V-shape."

T5P is kind of close to that but not soooo boosted as to hurt. Generally. Whether that's enough or still too dull for what you want is hard to determine before you actually listen to it. But in any case it's 32ohms and something like 99dB/1mW so you

5. are comfortable enough to wear for hours

That's hard to guess since there are too many variables.

K70x and ATH-ADx00X have self adjusting headbands that are comfortable on my head, but are still loose for others and exacerbates the perceived lack of bass response, and can't be tightened. They can't stretch beyond a certain head size and hair thickness either.

An all metal headband like on the T5P can be adjusted a bit both ways (easier to tighten this one though than to loosen it) but then the earpads can be a bit too small for your earlobe size.

Even though I love bass, I don't want it to drown out the rest of the frequencies too much.

My current headphones are the Hifiman Sundara paired with an Arcam rHead. I really like how they sound except that the bass is too flat for me. I tried to EQ them but that didn't work very well. I've also owned a pair of sennheiser HD25s, which I thought sounded pretty fun even though they were far from perfect.

These are the models I've been looking into buying:
-Fostex TH-900
-Sony MDR-Z1R
-Denon AH-D7200
-Audeze LCD-X or XC (I've heard that they aren't very comfortable though)
-ultrasone pro 900

Closed or open doesn't matter too much to be, but I prefer over ear

Are there any cans I should know about that that might suit my needs better?

I'm gonna go with the LCD-2F or LCD-3 or LCD-X if you can spend as much as what those cost

 

[Redcarmoose]

The posts considering amp power are a huge thing. I don’t know your complete set-up but can suggest you look at whole systems. The damping factor is due to power of the amplifier to both start and stop the driver diaphragm. This is most important as a concept as you will witness new members into EDM spending “bank” on TOTL flagships only to go from one headphone purchase to another being let down due to bass authority.

EDM is not just driven by bass but the pace rhythm and timing that’s created from great damping factor. This quality also maintains a specific timbre which only occurs with EDM which is specifically the delineation of bass drum when the sample uses multi-bass drum samples overlapping along with the actual electronic bass synth. What power does is create a lower bass definition “head-stage” where elements are specific to there own area and separate. This will actually sound like way more bass but in reality it’s only one dB of more bass. It’s bass definition!!

Under amping makes this component dissolve into an unheard fog. At times Head-Fi will downplay the importance of EDM due to feeling it’s cheap music and therefore easy to replicate on headphones. In reality it has very specific demands which when met are able to create an environment which lends itself to EDM replay. Again the emotions are in the details. Your basic STAX classical headphone enthusiast are at a lack of explanation due to lack of experience with EDM. Their feelings of system superiority will even blind their judgement, where basically they are a fish out of water and don’t know why their STAX system could potentially have a flaw........as it’s perfect?

Some believe EDM has it’s own demands and needs. I have been happy with the Fostex line with Woo 5LE 300B tube amp. Though the TH-900 may be bright? I used the Fostex built AHD-7000 by Denon.

I would suggest at least hearing the Sony MDR Z1R and MDR-Z7. Make sure you have a powerful amp. I use the Sony TA-ZH1ES desktop and it’s great with EDM.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Another use I did was using the MDR-Z7 with stock cables and Schiit Asgard One. Again a class-A amp which is renowned to be on the bright fatiguing side but was fine with the Sony MDR-Z7 and EDM.

I would also suggest the Kimber aftermarket cable with use with the Z7 or balanced with the Z7 or MDR-Z1R.

SONY MUC-B20SB1

 

[PointyFox]

Sony MDR Z1R, MDR-Z7, ZMF Eikon, Mr.Speakers VOCE, Stax SR-007A w/port mod, or Meze Empyrean.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I looked at your amplifier. It may work? Though my suggestion is to go to a Head-Fi meet. You need to spend time with systems to try and get a feel for how amplifiers are going to dial in the sound. There is nothing wrong with getting an idea as to what more power will do. Whole systems are just that whole systems with an accurate source and amp. Together they add a specific tone which will not be bright but detailed.

 

[CTR640]

3. Have detailed highs without being fatiguing
4. Can be cranked up to very loud volumes without distorting (I know it's almost a sin around here, but I like it loud some times)
5. are comfortable enough to wear for hours

Even though I love bass, I don't want it to drown out the rest of the frequencies too much.

.

Amiron Home or the Wireless version.

 

[huxleyhawke]

Thank you so much the replies! I really appreciate it. After reading the reply from ProtegeManiac and doing some more googling, I've decided to go with the T5p this time. The reason I didn't go for the LCD-X because I read multiple reports that they weren't comfortable enough. The next time, I'll probably look into some of the other suggestions in this thread. Also, a big thanks to Redcarmoose for the pointers and suggestions. They will definitely come in handy! I'll throw in an update once the cans arrive

 

[ProtegeManiac]

The reason I didn't go for the LCD-X because I read multiple reports that they weren't comfortable enough.

It's mostly because they're heavy.

For those who do nothing but listen, and likely these people have a high back chair, that's not a problem.

For others who have to do some other things to distract them from the music that is supposed to be so important to enjoy properly as to buy equipment (but apparently not to give them 100% attention), that's where the problem crops up since they can't lean their head against a seatback or the headrest so they can accomplish things more enjoyable than music.

 

[Monsterzero]

ZMF Verite closed with universe pads.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Thank you so much the replies! I really appreciate it. After reading the reply from ProtegeManiac and doing some more googling, I've decided to go with the T5p this time. The reason I didn't go for the LCD-X because I read multiple reports that they weren't comfortable enough. The next time, I'll probably look into some of the other suggestions in this thread. Also, a big thanks to Redcarmoose for the pointers and suggestions. They will definitely come in handy! I'll throw in an update once the cans arrive

Enjoy! The journey and curiosity is 1/2 the fun!

 

[Ryodan]

1. Have a detailed punchy bass without sounding muddy

3. Have detailed highs without being fatiguing

4. Can be cranked up to very loud volumes without distorting

the lcd 2 fazored are perfect for these 3 things imo, though they don't sound v shaped to me and they might not be comfortable for you.

 

[huxleyhawke]

Hi everyone. I'm back after owning the Beyerdynamic T5P for a week. I'm going to return them. Here's why:
-There is something loose in the right earcup. Maybe it's a tiny screw.
-The low end rolls off a bit early and even though it's thicker and deeper than the sundaras, it's not enough of an improvement.
-They don't perform well at loud volumes. They distort in a really weird way that I've never heard in another set of cans. They're also pretty fatiguing.
-I think they sound hollowed out. I don't know why, because I can't really pinpoint what's missing, but I think it has something to do with how the lower mids sound. It lacks a fullness and everything sounds so distant
They're also a bit small for my big ears, so comfort isn't great for me.
-I liked the imaging and the separation (Hoping I'll use these terms correctly), but they didn't sound very immersive. I think they sounded like everything was far away from you.

So guys, I'm now looking for another set of cans. Maybe I didn't actually know what I wanted when I made this thread.

I want them to be good all rounders, but shine a little extra on EDM music. I want them to be immersive, detailed and pretty fast/punchy. I want to be able to hear all the different instruments of a song so I guess kinda analytical. Maybe close to neutral, but a bit more fun on the bass side.

Would be great if there were such a thing that's similar, but a solid upgrade from the hifiman Sundaras/He-400i that can be played just as loud and does better on the bassy side without losing details.

I'm still wondering if the LCD-X is what I'm looking for.

the lcd 2 fazored are perfect for these 3 things imo, though they don't sound v shaped to me and they might not be comfortable for you.

How do they compare to the X? I'm also wondering if the hifiman Ananda's might be for me? So far, I have a good experience with open planar headphones

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi everyone. I'm back after owning the Beyerdynamic T5P for a week. I'm going to return them. Here's why:
-There is something loose in the right earcup. Maybe it's a tiny screw.

Definitely get that replaced.

-The low end rolls off a bit early and even though it's thicker and deeper than the sundaras, it's not enough of an improvement.

The Sundara stays flatter deeper into the bass. What dynamic drivers have is an upper bass hump.

Ya know...the left side of the "V" in V-shape.

What people don't realize about the terms they use on the forums is that "V-shaped" actually means "cursive V."

-They don't perform well at loud volumes. They distort in a really weird way that I've never heard in another set of cans.

No problem on my Meier Cantate.2 when I tried that, but not even on an Ibasso DX100. There might be some issue with that amp when driving this headphone.

They're also pretty fatiguing.

That would be the right side of the V. Where it goes up at the 6000hz to 10000hz range.

-I think they sound hollowed out. I don't know why, because I can't really pinpoint what's missing, but I think it has something to do with how the lower mids sound. It lacks a fullness and everything sounds so distant

That's kind of the point of the V.

Left peak at upper bass, goes down down down down, starts going back up up up later at the treble.

I called some of them "W's" like the HD330 and it didn't gain any traction though.

And then there's the angled mounts that try to get all the sound farther out from the ears and create a spatial impression...but when the response from the drivers start out like this, well, that's where it ends up.

They're also a bit small for my big ears, so comfort isn't great for me.

I personally think the most comfortable (ie no need for a high back chair to take the weight off the neck) headphone is the HD800 but it doesn't fit your sound profile requirements.

-I liked the imaging and the separation (Hoping I'll use these terms correctly), but they didn't sound very immersive. I think they sounded like everything was far away from you.

They're trying to sound like speakers.

That's basically what most people mean when they ask for "imaging."

Some mean "I want the cymbals right up against my ears like I'm on the stage," ie Grados.

Both agree the HD600's imaging ie soundstage is very narrow...and my contention that it's proportional ie you don't have cymbals waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out to the flanks and forward where the guitars are as on Grados hasn't caught on yet, just like the "let's clarify that as 'cursive V' or 'actually a W'" bit.

So guys, I'm now looking for another set of cans. Maybe I didn't actually know what I wanted when I made this thread.

I want them to be good all rounders, but shine a little extra on EDM music. I want them to be immersive, detailed and pretty fast/punchy. I want to be able to hear all the different instruments of a song so I guess kinda analytical. Maybe close to neutral, but a bit more fun on the bass side.

Would be great if there were such a thing that's similar, but a solid upgrade from the hifiman Sundaras/He-400i that can be played just as loud and does better on the bassy side without losing details.

I'm still wondering if the LCD-X is what I'm looking for.

Depending on your earlobe shape, the earpad opening might not be wide enough. The earcup looks large from the outside but the actual pads look like this - you can see how much wider it is on the outer perimeter but there's only a rectangular cut out for the driver.

And then if you want long-wearing comfort, expect to need or eventually have a neck and shoulder tone like Brock Lesnar if you'll use it while doing anything other than listening ie you can't lean back against the headrest to take some of the weight off.

As for the sound...I guess it's kind of a "V." A very shallow one...

...kind of like the Sundara.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Comfort and musicality?

You'll know what i'm going to say.

Take a look at the affordable Quads. ^^
But, they're not V-shaped, nor w-shaped.
No matter what music you'll throw to them, they could handle with ease, imo.
Wether it's metal, edm, dubstep or classical.

With an additional after market cable and proper amplification, they'll fulfill most needs, i'm sure.
They're light weight for a planar and the pads are made for larger ears. ( 4.5cm x 7cm )

It's worth a look.

Red is velour pads, blue is angled sheep skin leather pads, which opens up the sound.