[plonter]

I agree with the OP about getting the headphones first. afterwards you can get a good amp to drive them. this way you can at least listening to music until you get the amp,and that way you will appreciate them much more after amplification.
the only problematic of getting a headphones first without amp is that if you like what you hear,you can allow yourself to stay with your current rig without upgrading the amplification. YOU CAN NEVER KNOW SOMETHING BETTER UNTIL YOU HEAR IT. this is why it is good to have places like head-fi where you can rely on other people opinios and learn from their experience.
if a certain headphone doesn't have to be amplified with a serious dedicated amp (although all headphones benifit from amplification...no doubt about it)
there will probably be talking and discussion about it here in head fi.

anyway,from my experience, there is not even a single headphone that don't sound better after a good amplification. every headphone I tried, sounded better through a dedicated amp, some less and some more.
a good amp means,that you have the best amplification possible, and mpst of the DAP's outthere and even the integrated recievers don't have good amp section to them, because the efforts and investing in other parts of the chain inside of them which is understandable.

 

[VALIENTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with the OP about getting the headphones first. afterwards you can get a good amp to drive them. this way you can at least listening to music until you get the amp,and that way you will appreciate them much more after amplification. the only problematic of getting a headphones first without amp is that if you like what you hear,you can allow yourself to stay with your current rig without upgrading the amplification. YOU CAN NEVER KNOW SOMETHING BETTER UNTIL YOU HEAR IT. this is why it is good to have places like head-fi where you can rely on other people opinios and learn from their experience.

I agree too. I assume that when I receive my new amp I will definitely more in love with my K701...Then I will save for a better source...Then cables... Sounds getting good to better to best. I love my headphones!

 

[Justin Uthadude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here at head-fi I was misleaded into thinking that headphones like the Sennheiser HD600, AKG k701, or other moderately high end cans need a expensive amp and source to sound good, and that without them they are not worth getting. I found this was not true at all. The sound I get out of my HD580 is significantly better than anything else I have heard even right out of an ipod..... Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?

I understand your point, and I understand the other view that ampless works, but not well.

When I plugged my SR60's into my Sansa Clip the first time I was amazed. I hate to admit this, but after much blind testing I ripped more cd's than I would care to admit at 192kbps because I thought anything higher didn't sound better and to use your words it was significantly better than anything else I have heard. But after getting an amp and dac, I found 192k kinda sucked and I could now here a difference compared to higher bitrates or lossless. So I agree with you; coming from marginal to adequate is pretty nice. But going from nice to adequate isn't. To quote Bob Seger, "I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."
.

 

[Zoldar]

I listened to my K701 on an Samsung Ypt 10 MP3 player and the sound quality much improved over the Senheiser cx 300 II earbuds. But I could barely hear it for the amp in the samsung could not drive the K701 at an even moderate volume. I cannot see why anyone would plug these cans directly into their ipod. Get an amp for that or buy other phones!

My integrated amp did drive the akg's nicely. The headpones alone opened up my music collection again. The single best improvement in sound quality for years. There were some gripes too and I solved those with an amp. But it's not a must have to enjoy them. But it did improve SQ by a mile.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoldar /img/forum/go_quote.gif I cannot see why anyone would plug these cans directly into their ipod. Get an amp for that or buy other phones!

Because it sounds excellent and drives to very loud volumes...

Now I do not listen to the HD580 out of an ipod regularly, I only did it for testing purposes. With that I use abominable skull candy's and man do they suck.

 

[TobaccoRoad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because it sounds excellent and drives to very loud volumes...

But what everyone's saying is that you won't know until you hear better. I don't see how you can make this claim (not the quoted post, but OP itself) if EF2 is the only amp you own. What is the best headphone and amp you heard so far?

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobaccoRoad /img/forum/go_quote.gif But what everyone's saying is that you won't know until you hear better. I don't see how you can make this claim (not the quoted post, but OP itself) if EF2 is the only amp you own. What is the best headphone and amp you heard so far?

Are you saying the EF2 is bad?

I have not heard any high end headamp yet because i would never fork that kind of cash out right now.

 

[JackRyan]

After debating this very same topic in home audio for a few years, I've come to the conclusion that beyond a basic level of technical competence, different speakers are not necessarily better, but just different. Nothing else determines the final sound of an audio system more than speakers. We can try to tame aspects of a speaker that we don't like through modifiers, but it's far more rewarding to search and find speakers that match wat we are looking for in the first place.

Perhaps nothing bore this out clearer to me than my stint with guitar tube amps. Technically speaking, all guitar tube amps and speaker cabs are horrible audio reproduction devices. They all have loads of distortion and nothing that resembles a balanced response curve. Nevermind finer points like impulse response and intermodulation distortion. But the distinct sound of each popular amp/speaker design has a healthy following of musicians. To a particular musician, that amp/speaker may be described as "better" than another, but to an outside observer, the amps/speakers are just different.

And the same is true with headphones and headphone amps - focus on finding the pair of headphones that best fit the preference of your ears. And if you then find a headphone amp that happens to fix whatever shortcoming that the headphone has, that's when you have what people refer to as "synergy".

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Guitar amps rely on the speaker enclosures to resonate sympathetically with the drivers in them (three major types of enclosure, semi open back or baffle, open baffle and closed back sealed enclosure) whereas with audio speakers you want all box AND driver coloration eliminated (as much as possible). Comparing highly colored and narrowly targeted (in terms of freq response, THD levels etc) guitar amps to audio amps is like comparing elephants to apes...totally different animals using entirely different design goals

There is no correlation between the 2 other than they both make noise with one being far noisier (on purpose) than the other. In the early days of amps late 40's to late 50's distortion in an amp (for guitar and bass) was frowned upon big time. It was considered the poorest of form to overdrive your 4x10 Fender Bassman or 1 x 12 Tweed combo. Good thing that was ignored a decade later (but that's another kettle of fish entirely)

BTW I have both open backed Fender amps and closed back,classic stack 4 x 12 Marshall gear. The freq response of most guitar speakers (the great ones) is roughly 60 or 70 hz to 4500 or 5000 hz. The lowest note on a standard tuned (A = 440 hz) 4 string bass is 40 hz with the lowest note on a standard tuned 6 string is 82.4hz, the highest at 329.60 hz. It's a pretty narrow freq range that is taken into account with instrument amps....

Audio amps by comparison are much more stringent in design goals as are the speaker systems used with those amps (headphones are simpler in contrast) which adds complexity and cost vs the dead simple all tube guitar amp circuits.

I hope that helps a bit.

Peete.

 

[BIG POPPA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you saying the EF2 is bad? I have not heard any high end headamp yet because i would never fork that kind of cash out right now.

Check out a mini meet in your area. You will be glad you did. EF2 is OK, you can hear better if you plan to match the synergy of the headphones.

 

[midoo1990]

I agree with the OP that the 'myth' of headfi that we can't enjoy hd650 or k701 without a very expensive amp is not true.I am currently using my hd650 straight out of my iPod touch for 2 weeks now and I swear I get goose bumps just as I listened to them via my micro amp.the same goes with k701 and d5000.yes soundstage without amplification is smaller,bass is flappier,transparency drcreases,some details are lost,mids become a little bit thinner,headphones become slower,but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying my hd650 out of my touch until my wa6 arrives.so yes there is a little bit of exaggeration here that these headphones 'are unlistenable'

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here at head-fi I was misleaded into thinking that headphones like the Sennheiser HD600, AKG k701, or other moderately high end cans need a expensive amp and source to sound good, and that without them they are not worth getting. I found this was not true at all. The sound I get out of my HD580 is significantly better than anything else I have heard even right out of an ipod. Also, I am of the believe that this range of headphones ($250-500)will sound better than a $100-150 pair of headphones with a $200 amp and dac. I am not here so say amps are useless, rather say the best way about going this hobby is to start with reference headphones, then going to an amp. Ive heard things like, the HD600 are weak and boring without an $300 + amp, and this is not true. Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?

I dont think you were mislead. IME all of my headphones sound better out of my X-CANV8P, X-CANS than with the FiiO than straight out of an ipod.

It is partly misleading if people are claiming that the only way to decent sound is to buy an expensive amp. There are many many posts that state that is not true and people are happy with the sound straight out of an ipod. But those who have heard both and have the money do know you can get better sound with a better amp. Whether that amp is an expensive one is not so certain.

Of course you need to start off with headphones first. Then if you are really dedicated and have the money you can buy amps, very expensive amps and be happy.

 

[dweaver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRyan /img/forum/go_quote.gif And the same is true with headphones and headphone amps - focus on finding the pair of headphones that best fit the preference of your ears. And if you then find a headphone amp that happens to fix whatever shortcoming that the headphone has, that's when you have what people refer to as "synergy".

Yes exactly JackRyan! Thats what I think of when I think synergy. The main reason I like my amp is that it is analytical and slightly on the bright side which counteracts the warm almost to smooth aspects of the HD600 and IE8. I have had othe headphones that did not match up so nicely with the amp (AD900 being 1)

 

[TobaccoRoad]

The "myth" is referring to everyone's opinion, so it can definitely be true. Do I think HD650 sounds good in general out of a cheap amp? sure. Is that sound worth $400? No, and that's where it ruins the enjoyment for me it's that simple. Even if it sounded good the fact that I KNOW it's not being driven to full potential bothered the hell out of me which is one of the reason why I sold it. Now if you received the headphone as a gift I'm assuming you won't have troubles with this.

 

[Drag0n]

Sansa Clip > AKG K-1000

DONE!!!