[FallenAngel]

Few things of note:

1) 5th Gen iPod (WM8711) can only output 40mW into 16R

2) I didn't say anything about impedance matching to amp, 300R is a VERY easy load to drive (current-wise), though it's necessary to have enough voltage swing. You can get 100mW by with 10V and 10mA of current or 1V and 100mA of current output, problem is, only one of these will sound good.

 

[weibby]

I believe the design of the circuitry is more important.
If the design is great - well tested and properly designed, it can withstand the test of time - look at the mini3 and the ppa, millet max etc.

All these are DIY amps that have evolved to suit the headphones of today.
The cost only escalates when you use quality parts and more aesthetically pleasing finishing to the chassis etc.

Good quality parts are expensive yet they last and don't give much problems compared to the cheaper amps which use sub-par components.
Also you have to factor in the cost of quality craftsmanship vs mass market production.

All this cost money and no body is running a charity.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif A system can really only be as good as its weakest component, whether that be headphone, source, or amplifier.

So your saying an HD580 will sound about as good as a skull candy out of an ipod, because your limited by the ipod? NO Way, I have and listen to both out of an ipod and the HD580 is many times better. MANY MANY times. I have heard this statement before and its nonsense. This is what I am talking about and why I started this thread, to discuss some of these absurd things you hear on head-fi like this.

I think this is what you get for the money:

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif So your saying an HD580 will sound about as good as a skull candy out of an ipod, because your limited by the ipod? NO Way, I have and listen to both out of an ipod and the HD580 is many times better. MANY MANY times. So I can't agree with that statement at all. I have heard this statement before and its nonsense.

I'm not saying this, because the iPod is not total garbage as most Skullcandy models are. In that case, your headphones are most likely your limiting factor. Most headphones ~<$100 don't generally benefit tremendously from amping, IMO, for two reasons.

A) Most external amps up to that price point are crap unto themselves, especially if you're including a LOD in that price (which is necessary to realize the benefits of an external amp).

B) Most headphones up to that price point are built with the iPod listener in mind, meaning that they're easier to drive, and therefore, won't benefit as much from amplification.

You need to look at your entire rig to determine your weak link. My weakest point, ATM, is obviously my source. Once I upgrade that, most purchases will mostly be sidesteps until I reach a significantly higher price point.

 

[gbacic]

Nothing wrong with you liking your HD580 out of your ipod.
Personally, my SR60's demolish my HD650's out of my ipod, but can't stack up when the HD650's are amped.

To each his own.

 

[Spareribs]

 

[Crazy*Carl]

I also have a problem with the idea on these forums of more, more, more. and "sorry about your wallet" A good audio rig can last a long time, and you shouldn't always have to be on the lookout for something new. These forums really are as much of a marketing place as they are to discuss about audio.

That being I said, I know no ones forcing me to get anything, and I should be more concerned with enjoying what I do have. I have learned alot here and am grateful for that. But there is some frustrations that a beginner can get here, especially since most begin coming to head-fi when they are ready for that first real audio rig. You of course can't afford a 1000 dollar rig, and you have people making comments like 400 dollar headphones should be accompanied by no less than 2000 dollars worth of equipment, no joke, I have heard this.

I love my HD580, I still am impressed on a daily basis of what they can do. I look forward to the day I can attend a hi-fi met and really get some kind of an idea why people could spend so much on a headphone amp.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbacic /img/forum/go_quote.gif my SR60's demolish my HD650's out of my ipod, but can't stack up when the HD650's are amped.

More fuel to the fire. Another gross exaggeration most likely.

 

[kayaker3057]

well, the way I look at it is: my wife understands the difference between SD and HD, but she could care less. So to her there is no difference. Me however, it makes a HUGE difference. It is just the details that we care to spend time with.

Coming from car audio, having demo'd many many different setups, I can tell you that amps make a difference in the performance of a speaker. This is directly applicable to headphones. Using the precedence of the ipod, I recently was between the dt770 and the 840srh. The dt770(250 ohm) was unplayable and the 840srh(32 ohm) sounded excellent. An amp will make a difference.

 

[anetode]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my experience the HD600/650 certainly DO benefit greatly from high quality amplification, when the higher levels of fidelity are the goal. I don't think, however, that the specs indicate these headphones are in any manner difficult to drive adequately for less demanding applications.

Adequacy is anathema to audiophiles. There's this perception that if an audio component is to do something, it must be capable of doing it at 130db. If the hi-fi market is to persist, manufacturers must insist on distorting the well-researched standards for audibility to sell increasingly complex electronics at pricing that outpaces the rate of inflation. Beyond adequacy the only math that matters is found in economics.

 

[gbacic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif More fuel to the fire. Another gross exaggeration most likely.

It's really not. I can't even get them to a decent volume, never mind make them have the same detail and impact that the SR60's have.

The SR60's have an impedance that is almost 10 times less than the HD650 (more than 10 times at some frequencies). The HD650's sound dead when not amped properly, while the SR60's sound amazing. (And the HD650's don't sound dead when amped well, even decently.)

 

[tintin47]

If driving high end phones with an ipod makes you happy, so be it. The problem I have with the idea is rooted in the fact that you are not driving the phones as they were designed to be driven.

The way I see it, if you are going to go high end, you go high end-- not sort of high end.
If you want great sound from an ipod, you get phones designed for an ipod: iems and portables.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbacic /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't even get them to a decent volume, never mind make them have the same detail and impact that the SR60's have. )

That is surprising. My ipod shuffle can make my HD580 so loud that I would never consider listening anywhere close to that level.

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I love my HD580, I still am impressed on a daily basis of what they can do. I look forward to the day I can attend a hi-fi met and really get some kind of an idea why people could spend so much on a headphone amp.

Well, FWIR, an EF2 ain't too shabby, so you already have quite a nice amp. Spending is all about balance. After I got my HD650s (all my equipment is used, to save money, and purchased after months of research and waiting), I knew that I wanted a DAC, but I could still get tons of enjoyment out of my rig as is, and to focus on expanding my music collection. I haven't bought a new component in 9 months, and I'm still loving it. Someday (soon, probably), I will take the plunge to try to maximize my current rig. Deeply buried moral of the story, you don't need the top-of-the-line everything to enjoy the music.

 

[swbf2cheater]

You can't watch high definition shows or movies on a non HD tv and expect them to look good. The amp is the second part of the equation to headphones. It is almost a requirement for anyone who feels sound is remotely important.