[Roasty]

ah yes.. I was just wondering when the susvara amp discussion would come round again!

brace yourselves for Susvara 2 discussion, coming soon!

 

[chrisnyc75]

What do you want out of the Susvara? Did you want details and soundstage? Strong bass impact? Strong smooth mid for vocals? There is an amp that focuses on each of those. You want something that has 2 of the 3 well then you are looking at 15K plus. If you want all 3, not gonna happen. At least 2.5 is the best you can get at the 20K plus budget.

Are you sure about that? Let's be realistic here.

 

[psy472]

Are you sure about that? Let's be realistic here.

There are amps that try to achieve all 3 and those are all expensive. Some are better than others at the sweet spot that appeals to people. There also people who enjoy different aspects of sound and music which is why we have such diversity in sources, headphones, and accessories. At the end of that journey you got gear that colored a song so much, making it a lot better than live performance.

 

[AussieMick]

Can I throw in a little loudspeaker-world thinking here?
It would be extremely rare for someone to consider buying a boutique, flagship loudspeaker from Focal, Wilson Audio, YG Acoustics, Magico, etc without also planning to purchase electronics, cabling and power treatments of commensurate quality. Sure, not all at once, but definitely in the planning. There’s little chance of a dealer of those flagships demonstrating them with amplification or a source at a fraction of the price. Even the old adage of “spend twice as much on the speaker as the amplifier” has fallen out of favour.
As a result, the idea of “scaling up” just isn’t a part of the language. The thinking would come from the other side, “you’re only getting half your investment in sound if you use that amp, so just don’t”.

With Susvara it seems that as a group we’re quite fond of saying one of the Susvara’s admirable qualities is how well it scales up. Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Maybe we’re saying that because we’ve gone out and bought a Susvara without also considering what electronics we need to actually recoup our investment in sound? Then every little change we hear easily because Susvara is so damn capable of resolving the tiniest change. Now, that gives us the dopamine hit and we like it, for a while, until we start looking for more…

I’ve stated in this thread before that I’d rather a beautifully balanced $3k system than a Susvara running off electronics that can’t hope to show you what this magnificent headphone can do. You don’t use E10 fuel and K-Mart tyres with a Testarossa.

Having said all that, I don’t believe you need the most expensive amplification to hear Susvara sing and sound balanced and enjoyable. The current LTA Z10E is a great example. It’s price matches the headphone well and is thousands cheaper than some suggestions here. The Bliss. Cheaper still and sounds amazing.

The other aspect that some people seem to forget is that what you’ve already heard really does inform what you think possible and what you’ll be happy with. A set of BHK electronics sounds quite incredible, but then you hear top of the line Audio Research and your world view crumbles.

In the end, you’ve got to find something you can afford and that you really love listening to. However, if we’re finding our headphones “scaling up” with every change, perhaps it’s a sign that they’re not being used as intended to give of their best?

I bought Susvara before I had the amp to drive them (a really good used bargain), but did so knowing I’d need to add the amp at a later stage. I was never happy (they sounded unbalanced with some things great, some okay, some not good, and kept going back to Utopia until I found an amp that would do the Susvara justice.

These TOTL headphones are all incredible and deserve the best. I stand by my “balanced system” preference being best for musical enjoyment. Is Susvara inherently better that HEK? Of course it is, but we all know we can make it sound worse with substandard electronics.

(But how good is upgrading! I’m always wondering what’s next…)

 

[paradoxper]

ah yes.. I was just wondering when the susvara amp discussion would come round again!

brace yourselves for Susvara 2 discussion, coming soon!

It never ends.

 

[jlbrach]

ah yes.. I was just wondering when the susvara amp discussion would come round again!

brace yourselves for Susvara 2 discussion, coming soon!

as long as the susvara exists the amp discussion will dominate lol

 

[Spawn300Z]

Can I throw in a little loudspeaker-world thinking here?
It would be extremely rare for someone to consider buying a boutique, flagship loudspeaker from Focal, Wilson Audio, YG Acoustics, Magico, etc without also planning to purchase electronics, cabling and power treatments of commensurate quality. Sure, not all at once, but definitely in the planning. There’s little chance of a dealer of those flagships demonstrating them with amplification or a source at a fraction of the price. Even the old adage of “spend twice as much on the speaker as the amplifier” has fallen out of favour.
As a result, the idea of “scaling up” just isn’t a part of the language. The thinking would come from the other side, “you’re only getting half your investment in sound if you use that amp, so just don’t”.

With Susvara it seems that as a group we’re quite fond of saying one of the Susvara’s admirable qualities is how well it scales up. Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Maybe we’re saying that because we’ve gone out and bought a Susvara without also considering what electronics we need to actually recoup our investment in sound? Then every little change we hear easily because Susvara is so damn capable of resolving the tiniest change. Now, that gives us the dopamine hit and we like it, for a while, until we start looking for more…

I’ve stated in this thread before that I’d rather a beautifully balanced $3k system than a Susvara running off electronics that can’t hope to show you what this magnificent headphone can do. You don’t use E10 fuel and K-Mart tyres with a Testarossa.

Having said all that, I don’t believe you need the most expensive amplification to hear Susvara sing and sound balanced and enjoyable. The current LTA Z10E is a great example. It’s price matches the headphone well and is thousands cheaper than some suggestions here. The Bliss. Cheaper still and sounds amazing.

The other aspect that some people seem to forget is that what you’ve already heard really does inform what you think possible and what you’ll be happy with. A set of BHK electronics sounds quite incredible, but then you hear top of the line Audio Research and your world view crumbles.

In the end, you’ve got to find something you can afford and that you really love listening to. However, if we’re finding our headphones “scaling up” with every change, perhaps it’s a sign that they’re not being used as intended to give of their best?

I bought Susvara before I had the amp to drive them (a really good used bargain), but did so knowing I’d need to add the amp at a later stage. I was never happy (they sounded unbalanced with some things great, some okay, some not good, and kept going back to Utopia until I found an amp that would do the Susvara justice.

These TOTL headphones are all incredible and deserve the best. I stand by my “balanced system” preference being best for musical enjoyment. Is Susvara inherently better that HEK? Of course it is, but we all know we can make it sound worse with substandard electronics.

(But how good is upgrading! I’m always wondering what’s next…)

This is why when people ask for budget options I will always suggest the Bel Canto S300 or S500. You can find them on the used market very reasonable and really work well with the Susvaras. They are well know in the speaker world and make great equipment. Plus the form factor is a win also. But people are afraid not to go with the mainstream is saying.

 

[h2oglasses]

Seems that cayin will match your like, but feliks audio Envy is another great amp in this price range. I havent heard either but there is a lot of comments in this thread. In solid state flux labs volot seems to be the king in soundstage.

I see that Envy is getting very hot now. I wonder the gap between HA300MK2 and Envy, realizing there are very few thread of it in the Head-Fi. Thanks for the name of "Flux void" which is new to me. Will look into it.

 

[h2oglasses]

Not to complicate things too much, but you could also consider the WA23, too. I think if you’re wanting a tube-y sound, this is another great alternative and sounds phenomenal with the Susvara (listening to the combo right now). I listen to all genres, including classical and jazz. Retail it’s a bit more at $9K, but used you can find it for cheaper, like $7K.

Solid-state-wise, there’s the Enleum AMP 23R, though that’s quite colored in presentation. It hits like a truck, though.

Retail, if you’re willing to stretch to $9K the Zahl HM1 is another recommendation. Used, they do pop up and can be had for about $8K.

The WA33 and the Feliks Envy are fantastic tube amps and probably some of the most powerful, but they will also sound the more “solid-state.” WA33, though.

W23 looks very special, but don't know how good it works with Sus (enough power?). On the Si amp, I will look into both Zahl MH1 and Enleum. Thanks a lot!

 

[h2oglasses]

Flux Mentor, ideally 2 in a stack for dual mono (3,000 with all maxed accessories). Single works well too, costs 1,300 usd. No taxes because it’s from Ukraine. It has the benefit of black quiet background (great for instrumental separation), very detailed and impactful lows, detailed highs without sibilance, and large soundstage. As for the accessories, Flux is selling them at cost from expensive power cables to dual mono adapters. Heck even the remote control is a beast. That thing looks plastic but is secretly a solid metal weapon. The electric component is actually very slim and durable and the rest is reinforced steel.

It is also very neutral. As in it doesn’t color your music into something it’s not. Some like the coloring which is why there is such a big tube amp following. My Schiit MJ3 does just that (warmth, bass heavy, and very smooth), and does it well for the Susvara but you just don’t have the resolution that Flux has. You have detailed highs with the MJ3 (sounds like an expensive tube amp on top of that) but you lose the details on lows. Outside the Flux, you’ll need 8K+ SS amps to get those detailed lows.

Flux had to close down production recent due to being bombed by Russian missiles but they will be open for business in about 3 weeks.

Thanks for your insight. Regarding Flux, how do you see the difference between Mentor x 2, Mentor x 1, and volot? One of YouTube says that Mentor x1 is still attractive, but I want to understands those benefit based on my current SPL.

 

[Aetherhole]

W23 looks very special, but don't know how good it works with Sus (enough power?). On the Si amp, I will look into both Zahl MH1 and Enleum. Thanks a lot!

As long as you gain-stage from the Pre or DAC, it is just fine to power the Susvara. I’m using the Holo May which outputs 5.8v to the amp and that is plenty sufficient. I had asked Woo to confirm, the WA23 can accept up to 6v just fine.

 

[Chronos]

What do you want out of the Susvara? Did you want details and soundstage? Strong bass impact? Strong smooth mid for vocals? There is an amp that focuses on each of those. You want something that has 2 of the 3 well then you are looking at 15K plus. If you want all 3, not gonna happen. At least 2.5 is the best you can get at the 20K plus budget.

Have you heard the different amps with familiar sources at these different price points to come up with above generalization? I don’t think those price categories or attribute generalizations are accurate.

I think if it more of on a spectrum or a curve, rather than weaknesses. Because quite frankly, if I never heard the WA33 Elite, Zahl, etc. I would’ve been happy with a Ferrum stack, Bliss, MJ3, etc

 

[Aetherhole]

Have you heard the different amps with familiar sources at these different price points to come up with above generalization? I don’t think those price categories or attribute generalizations are accurate.

I think if it more of on a spectrum or a curve, rather than weaknesses. Because quite frankly, if I never heard the WA33 Elite, Zahl, etc. I would’ve been happy with a Ferrum stack, Bliss, MJ3, etc

This is on point. If you never hear the WA33 or Elite Edition, Zahl, Riviera, Mass Kobo, WA23, Feliks Envy, honestly, Bliss or Ferrum, are sheer power houses for the Susvara. Haven’t heard the Mjonir 3 yet, but hopefully next CJ.

Ferrum stack especially, Wandla (now Goldensound Ed) + Oor + Hypsos, would be a GREAT stopping point for those who don’t want to pay too much more than the what the Susvara MSRP is.

 

[joseph69]

Seems that cayin will match your like, but feliks audio Envy is another great amp in this price range.

This is the second time within a few days I've come across a post mentioning that the Cayin HA-300 Mk2 and Feliks Envy are within the same price range. The Cayin HA-300Mk2 is ~$4200.00-4400.00 retail--and the Feliks Envy is ~$7999.00 - $8999.00+ retail. That's not close at all too me.

 

[h2oglasses]

A used Zhal HM1 is your ticket!

For budget to get that aplomb bass, Enleum 23R is a great option

Thanks a lot. I am looking into those.