[AussieMick]

that isn't a realistic option for me at least. but even if i were to try the susvara with a variety of totl gear, i doubt that i could quantify the differences in performance in a meaningful way. what you might regard as 80% of the susvara's potential could be more like 95% to me - it's so subjective. and how do you come up with a percentage figure without knowing the susvara's optimum level of performance? i took your other post to be referring to sound performance rather than other considerations like looks or comfort.

Oh, I agree it’s subjective, and if you can’t go listening to other things then the can’t form the subjective opinion. If you’re happy, you’re happy, and nobody can take that away from you. Or should anyone try. I’m just thinking it if I had to choose Susvara + electronics that didn’t get its full capability, and an HEK + a chain that got the most from it (each combo costing the same), I’d choose the latter. It’s just my personality that would always be thinking I was missing out on “what could be”. Hence my personal preference for a balanced system.

 

[psy472]

Oh, I agree it’s subjective, and if you can’t go listening to other things then the can’t form the subjective opinion. If you’re happy, you’re happy, and nobody can take that away from you. Or should anyone try. I’m just thinking it if I had to choose Susvara + electronics that didn’t get its full capability, and an HEK + a chain that got the most from it (each combo costing the same), I’d choose the latter. It’s just my personality that would always be thinking I was missing out on “what could be”. Hence my personal preference for a balanced system.

I would I agree but after listening to the Susvara, I started finding more flaws in my HEK that I didn’t mind or noticed before. That goes for my other cans too. Ugg maybe one day I’ll get bored of the Susvara and try other cans. I can’t even bother to order another ZMF and just ended up ordering another headphone amp instead.

 

[up late]

Oh, I agree it’s subjective, and if you can’t go listening to other things then the can’t form the subjective opinion. If you’re happy, you’re happy, and nobody can take that away from you. Or should anyone try. I’m just thinking it if I had to choose Susvara + electronics that didn’t get its full capability, and an HEK + a chain that got the most from it (each combo costing the same), I’d choose the latter. It’s just my personality that would always be thinking I was missing out on “what could be”. Hence my personal preference for a balanced system.

if you preferred the the susvara's sound signature with its 'compromised' signal chain over the hek with its 'optimum' signal chain, would you still choose the latter option? what do you mean by a 'balanced system'?

 

[sahmen]

$18,000 I heard but not 100% sure so don't quote me on it lol

Now speaking of getting blown away, I naturally prefer to get that from the sound, rather than getting that from price tag:

Blown away by the sound :

Blown away by the price:

Here's hoping that the makers of the limited run Envy realize the difference

 

[sahmen]

(Deleted)

 

[AussieMick]

if you preferred the the susvara's sound signature with its 'compromised' signal chain over the hek with its 'optimum' signal chain, would you still choose the latter option? what do you mean by a 'balanced system'?

I don’t put sound signature (if you mean frequency response?) out in front of everything else. Resolution isn’t everything. Timbre isn’t everything. Dynamics are not everything. Comfort isn’t everything. Everywhere it seems there’s a sacrifice to be made, and I think I’m reasonably pragmatic. If I can have a system that does everything pretty well (not brilliantly), I’ll take that over a system that does a few things brilliantly and few things poorly.
As for balance, I mean a system where no component in that system is taking away the some of the ability of another component. The classic one here is an amplifier that leaves the Susvara bass spongy and not as detailed/textured as the midrange. In that case, yes I’d rather an HEK matched to electronics and cabling that meant no one area really stuck out.
People put together systems that are wonderfully even with nothing sticking out to distract them from the music, and do so at every price point. Equally, people put together systems that make sone areas shine at the expense of others. It’s a choice we make for what we like personally. Me, I like the balance where nothing sticks out and I’m happy to sacrifice some resolution or dynamics or timbre to get that balance.
Mojo2 + DCA Aeon 2 closed. Great example. Limited dynamics. Not a ton of detail. But it just sings and some music is really engaging through it. I’d rather use that system than a spongy-bass/grainy treble/shouty mids under-driven Susvara.

(Don’t get me wrong, I love Susvara, just making the example)

 

[up late]

I don’t put sound signature (if you mean frequency response?) out in front of everything else. Resolution isn’t everything. Timbre isn’t everything. Dynamics are not everything. Comfort isn’t everything. Everywhere it seems there’s a sacrifice to be made, and I think I’m reasonably pragmatic. If I can have a system that does everything pretty well (not brilliantly), I’ll take that over a system that does a few things brilliantly and few things poorly.
As for balance, I mean a system where no component in that system is taking away the some of the ability of another component. The classic one here is an amplifier that leaves the Susvara bass spongy and not as detailed/textured as the midrange. In that case, yes I’d rather an HEK matched to electronics and cabling that meant no one area really stuck out.
People put together systems that are wonderfully even with nothing sticking out to distract them from the music, and do so at every price point. Equally, people put together systems that make sone areas shine at the expense of others. It’s a choice we make for what we like personally. Me, I like the balance where nothing sticks out and I’m happy to sacrifice some resolution or dynamics or timbre to get that balance.
Mojo2 + DCA Aeon 2 closed. Great example. Limited dynamics. Not a ton of detail. But it just sings and some music is really engaging through it. I’d rather use that system than a spongy-bass/grainy treble/shouty mids under-driven Susvara.

(Don’t get me wrong, I love Susvara, just making the example)

what i mean by 'sound signature' is the sound of the headphone - its unique character or flavour if you will. every headphone that i've heard has one. i could have used the 'susvara's sound' or the 'susvara's presentation' instead. and thanks for explaining your point of view.

 

[jlemaster1957]

I don’t put sound signature (if you mean frequency response?) out in front of everything else. Resolution isn’t everything. Timbre isn’t everything. Dynamics are not everything. Comfort isn’t everything. Everywhere it seems there’s a sacrifice to be made, and I think I’m reasonably pragmatic. If I can have a system that does everything pretty well (not brilliantly), I’ll take that over a system that does a few things brilliantly and few things poorly.
As for balance, I mean a system where no component in that system is taking away the some of the ability of another component. The classic one here is an amplifier that leaves the Susvara bass spongy and not as detailed/textured as the midrange. In that case, yes I’d rather an HEK matched to electronics and cabling that meant no one area really stuck out.
People put together systems that are wonderfully even with nothing sticking out to distract them from the music, and do so at every price point. Equally, people put together systems that make sone areas shine at the expense of others. It’s a choice we make for what we like personally. Me, I like the balance where nothing sticks out and I’m happy to sacrifice some resolution or dynamics or timbre to get that balance.
Mojo2 + DCA Aeon 2 closed. Great example. Limited dynamics. Not a ton of detail. But it just sings and some music is really engaging through it. I’d rather use that system than a spongy-bass/grainy treble/shouty mids under-driven Susvara.

(Don’t get me wrong, I love Susvara, just making the example)

Thanks for sharing- this speaks to me as well. A couple of years ago I found this YT video by Andrew Robinson that speaks to your concern, from the angle of ‘you define what you are looking for audio-wise and what you want to do about it, and let the hype-trains just roll on by”

 

[jlemaster1957]

Or this one by Steve Huff- maybe is more cogent to the topic at hand. They are complementary, I found them both helpful on my own audiophile path.

 

[walterboss]

I've got a great deal available on a Susvara local to me, but I'm sitting here with Abyss 1266, Diana TC and ZMF Atrium.

Can anyone suggest what Susvara is going to bring to the party over and above these?

I understand from a few months of reading around the broad strokes of course. But I'm most interested in the Diana TC comparison to Susvara.

 

[up late]

I've got a great deal available on a Susvara local to me, but I'm sitting here with Abyss 1266, Diana TC and ZMF Atrium.

Can anyone suggest what Susvara is going to bring to the party over and above these?

I understand from a few months of reading around the broad strokes of course. But I'm most interested in the Diana TC comparison to Susvara.

i've not heard the zmf atrium. the susvara simply sounded 'natural' compared to the ab1266 and diana tc to me.

 

[nikkosjf]

I will try to suggest, as I too have the 1266, TC and Atrium, and I have a Susvara as well. They are all so different, in ways you will know, and the Susvara is different again. It is without a doubt an addition rather than crossing over into enemy territory in any way. If I had to pick, I would say that the TC is the closest, but even then they are plain different. The Susvara is the mature, wise one. Marry her to the right DAC and AMP and she can also kick some ass. I know this because when I first got her, she did not, she was too subdued, though brilliant in her subjugation. And now she is a menace when required. I cannot give you all sorts of technical details as I am not that kind of listener and do not possess that kind of knowledge, but the to the best of my ability the Susvara soundstage is not as wide as either 1266 or Atrium, but wide enough, instrument separation and imaging magnificent, but so are the 1266 and TC. Susvara bass won't quite thumb the way a 1266 does, I would say she is closer to the Atrium, that also has sublime bass. The biggest difference by far I would say is in the tonality and balance, where the Susvara is more grown up, and you would use her for different kinds of music; where the Abyss, whilst versatile enough to be good at almost everything, I would choose for Rock, and electronic and pop and just generally more in your face and upbeat music, the Susvara, whilst also being versatile enough to be good at almost everything, I would choose for Blues, and Jazz, and R&B, and classical, and country etc... Susvara you can also stick on your head and forget, whereas the 1266 doesn't let you rest in peace and dwell inside the music so effortlessly. In summary, the differences might be subjective to a large degree, but my word it will be different and if you are blessed enough to have all 4, you should allow yourself this experience, it is absolutely wonderful.

 

[walterboss]

I will try to suggest, as I too have the 1266, TC and Atrium, and I have a Susvara as well. They are all so different, in ways you will know, and the Susvara is different again. It is without a doubt an addition rather than crossing over into enemy territory in any way. If I had to pick, I would say that the TC is the closest, but even then they are plain different. The Susvara is the mature, wise one. Marry her to the right DAC and AMP and she can also kick some ass. I know this because when I first got her, she did not, she was too subdued, though brilliant in her subjugation. And now she is a menace when required. I cannot give you all sorts of technical details as I am not that kind of listener and do not possess that kind of knowledge, but the to the best of my ability the Susvara soundstage is not as wide as either 1266 or Atrium, but wide enough, instrument separation and imaging magnificent, but so are the 1266 and TC. Susvara bass won't quite thumb the way a 1266 does, I would say she is closer to the Atrium, that also has sublime bass. The biggest difference by far I would say is in the tonality and balance, where the Susvara is more grown up, and you would use her for different kinds of music; where the Abyss, whilst versatile enough to be good at almost everything, I would choose for Rock, and electronic and pop and just generally more in your face and upbeat music, the Susvara, whilst also being versatile enough to be good at almost everything, I would choose for Blues, and Jazz, and R&B, and classical, and country etc... Susvara you can also stick on your head and forget, whereas the 1266 doesn't let you rest in peace and dwell inside the music so effortlessly. In summary, the differences might be subjective to a large degree, but my word it will be different and if you are blessed enough to have all 4, you should allow yourself this experience, it is absolutely wonderful.

Thank you for such a wonderful and tantalising response! It is indeed this other experience I'm looking to fill in now.

 

[DJJEZ]

I've got a great deal available on a Susvara local to me, but I'm sitting here with Abyss 1266, Diana TC and ZMF Atrium.

Can anyone suggest what Susvara is going to bring to the party over and above these?

I understand from a few months of reading around the broad strokes of course. But I'm most interested in the Diana TC comparison to Susvara.

Compared to 1266TC, sus is

More natural
More airy
Better timbre
Better comfort
Better midrange
More laid back
Smaller soundstage width but more depth

Compared to atrium

Sus is in a whole different league for technicalities, not even close.
Sus more comfortable
Sus Better build quality
Everything sounds good on atrium, sus is way more fussy

 

[skhan007]

I will try to suggest, as I too have the 1266, TC and Atrium, and I have a Susvara as well. They are all so different, in ways you will know, and the Susvara is different again. It is without a doubt an addition rather than crossing over into enemy territory in any way. If I had to pick, I would say that the TC is the closest, but even then they are plain different. The Susvara is the mature, wise one. Marry her to the right DAC and AMP and she can also kick some ass. I know this because when I first got her, she did not, she was too subdued, though brilliant in her subjugation. And now she is a menace when required. I cannot give you all sorts of technical details as I am not that kind of listener and do not possess that kind of knowledge, but the to the best of my ability the Susvara soundstage is not as wide as either 1266 or Atrium, but wide enough, instrument separation and imaging magnificent, but so are the 1266 and TC. Susvara bass won't quite thumb the way a 1266 does, I would say she is closer to the Atrium, that also has sublime bass. The biggest difference by far I would say is in the tonality and balance, where the Susvara is more grown up, and you would use her for different kinds of music; where the Abyss, whilst versatile enough to be good at almost everything, I would choose for Rock, and electronic and pop and just generally more in your face and upbeat music, the Susvara, whilst also being versatile enough to be good at almost everything, I would choose for Blues, and Jazz, and R&B, and classical, and country etc... Susvara you can also stick on your head and forget, whereas the 1266 doesn't let you rest in peace and dwell inside the music so effortlessly. In summary, the differences might be subjective to a large degree, but my word it will be different and if you are blessed enough to have all 4, you should allow yourself this experience, it is absolutely wonderful.

Compared to 1266TC, sus is

More natural
More airy
Better timbre
Better comfort
Better midrange
More laid back
Smaller soundstage width but more depth

Compared to atrium

Sus is in a whole different league for technicalities, not even close.
Sus more comfortable
Sus Better build quality
Everything sounds good on atrium, sus is way more fussy

Fantastic, thank you both. I'm on the fence, as I cannot find really anything missing/lacking with my Abyss 1266. I understand the midrange comment, but a touch of EQ could be quite satisfying in that department. If I didn't already have and love my Abyss 1266, it would be no question about the Susvara purchase. Still going to think this over, as it's more about the finances for me. Selling off my ZMF headphones in anticipation of the Susvara; My VO just sold yesterday in fact, so I'm getting close.