[iFi audio]

I'm totally with you there @jlbrach. But if an individual doesn't hear that much difference, then good for them...they get to save some coin.

To us here at iFi Susvara proved to be a higher-tiered headphone than HE-1000/v2/SE, but I agree. If someone doesn't hear a big difference, that's money saved right there.

 

[Articnoise]

I'm totally with you there @jlbrach. But if an individual doesn't hear that much difference, then good for them...they get to save some coin.

It is also true that we are in an area of diminishing returns. Given that much of the gen pop is perfectly happy with compressed music on wireless earbuds, all of this is in rarified air.

Although I do think that the ability to distinguish more subtle differences can (although is not necessarily guaranteed) come with experience and exposure to many different products.

Sure if someone doesn't hear much difference after properly have compared their TT2, Master 9 etc against some good speaker amps first. The problem is all those that think they know without have tested driving Susvara or HE6 with a good speaker amp.

 

[OneEyedHito]

How Would you imagine wa22 running as preamp for moon 430ha would be? Just stock tubes

The ahb2/wa22 pairing is a very very powerful, neutral, linear amp with a tc tube amp with upgraded tubes to add some depth and weight to the notes, is my experience. Is the moon amp those three things? If so then I’d imagine the synergy would be great.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Could you quantify the upgrade from your previously owned examples in a percentage?
Based on your sig it seems like you moved onto E-Stats but have a Primaluna Evo 400 pre-ing into the Schitt Jot A or you swap between the two. (assuming swapping due to lack of “>>” and choice of adding “/“. Curious as you mention to have the AB1266, I imagine you drive it single ended off the Primaluna Evo 400 or does it drive off the Jot A?

Susvaras are 83db/mW while AB1266 88db/mW, figured they’d be in the sameish ballpark.

I hate using percentages, as it's just so arbitrary and the math doesn't really work lol, but using just my journey solely I can see how it could help as a visual. BTW, this is my second stint in the hobby, I took like a 10 year hiatus.

Anyways, had a Woo Wes (got a really good price used) and HE60, and added the 009 and 007 as well. Using a Chord Hugo 2 as a DAC. Both the amp and dac in summit fi would probably be regarded as mid-grade, but even the performance here gets you a foot in the door of top tier sound. Upgraded the Woo to a BHSE, which maybe felt like a 15% jump with the same headphones. Much more open and a bit more resolving.

Then I added the Sus, TC and OG Utopia through the GSX Mini, which is just incredibly capable for the price. Easily as enjoyable as my stat rig at the time. From there I upgraded to the WA33, which I would say gave another 15% jump over the Mini. Kind of gives an idea of how this hobby works, $7k more give or take, but still a relatively small jump. But I really enjoyed the WA33. It was absolutely the perfect pairing for the TC (still don't know why lol), and drives the Susvara well and properly. The only thing is the WA33 is just a bit softer in bass compared to similar level amps, and that drives the difference in bass performance between in the TC a bit wider than it should be.

Then I upgraded to the Mscaler that I used with the Hugo 2, felt like maybe another 10% jump. Next I upgraded to the Dave, which actually felt really substantial in combination to the Mscaler. Probably one of the biggest upgrades I've made, (along with the T2/Shang Sr.). Maybe felt like a 20-25% jump in performance. I would have to assume a similar jump to some of the other top DACs out there.

Then I moved to the EVO 400, and that's when I spent that absolute most time with the Susvara. From the Woo and my HSA1b (which came close enough to the WA33's performance for the price), maybe felt like squeezing the last 10% out of the Susvara. A bit more open and spacious, and bass was improved (but it wasn't a huge bass improvement).

My sole opinion here is that once you get to this level of performance it's mainly a matter of preference and synergy matching. You can always find a more premium amp, with upgraded parts or specialty builds, but the law of diminishing returns basically goes into overdrive. Now the combination of the EVO and WA33 + the Dave/Mscaler, together really yield a much more refined and better sounding system than the GSX Mini and Chord Hugo 2, despite the improvements of each individual component only being so much as described above. But I never felt as if anything was lacking with the latter, and enjoyed a ton of hours with the TC and Susvara on it.

Last thing I'll mention, if someone experienced tells you that a budget amp won't power the Susvara and they're speaking from either experience or a technical standpoint, I'd definitely listen. There are at least five generally affordable amps that have been repeatedly mentioned in this thread that can drive it that people have signed off on. I'd simply go with one of them until you can/or desire to upgrade.


To close out, bringing this back to the Susvara, my last upgrade was the SGL Sr. and DIY T2, which is a path I went based on the love for the Susvara. To my ears, this gets you maybe another 15% or so (quite a bit more resolving and spacious, with a bit less bass impact), but at a huge premium. Comparing both side to side for months, the Susvara absolutely comes close and is definitely pure end game worthy at a more reasonable cost. So again, it's all a game of inches.

 

[bozebuttons]

I am listening to my Susvara and I am going to make a suggestion Of a cd I am listening to right now
Ray Charles Genius Love company with various duos concord records.
This Cd really shines with the susvara as well as my speaker system
My headphone chain Jays audioCD3 Mk3 transport feeding Lampi pacific Headphone amp Eddie current Studio T/High fidelity Heix Headphone module combo
Headphone Cable Dana Lazurus Ultra
If you are looking for Great recording to listen to especially for vocals & even instrument tone Highly recommended.

 

[orrman]

I am listening to my Susvara and I am going to make a suggestion Of a cd I am listening to right now
Ray Charles Genius Love company with various duos concord records.
This Cd really shines with the susvara as well as my speaker system
My headphone chain Jays audioCD3 Mk3 transport feeding Lampi pacific Headphone amp Eddie current Studio T/High fidelity Heix Headphone module combo
Headphone Cable Dana Lazurus Ultra
If you are looking for Great recording to listen to especially for vocals & even instrument tone Highly recommended.

That's a mighty chain you got driving the Susvara. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[BillinSF]

My 300b amp will have preamp out in case I need to sample some solid state monstrosity.

Funny!

Woo suggested I upgrade from WA22 to WA5-LE to drive Sus. But yikes, that's $6K plus another $4K in tube upgrades. I'd need my wife to get a third job!! Put teenage daughter on the stroll.

I've read a few reviews that say that WA22, with TOTL tubes, is the sweetest sound in the Woo line, even though not the most powerful amp.

I'll post reviews of Wa22=>AHB2 for Sus.

 

[orrman]

Funny!

Woo suggested I upgrade from WA22 to WA5-LE to drive Sus. But yikes, that's $6K plus another $4K in tube upgrades. I'd need my wife to get a third job!! Put teenage daughter on the stroll.

I've read a few reviews that say that WA22, with TOTL tubes, is the sweetest sound in the Woo line, even though not the most powerful amp.

I'll post reviews of Wa22=>AHB2 for Sus.

I loved my time with the WA22 (upgraded rectifier) preamped to the Ferrum stack on poweramp mode. Was great with the Susvara until I moved on to the Enleum that cost the same but was a simpler chain, provided support for speakers as well and had better control of the bass.

 

[BillinSF]

I loved my time with the WA22 (upgraded rectifier) preamped to the Ferrum stack on poweramp mode. Was great with the Susvara until I moved on to the Enleum that cost the same but was a simpler chain, provided support for speakers as well and had better control of the bass.

I do not have as much knowledge as some on this thread. But I do my homework and look up every amp someone mentions. There's always a pic on each webpage of it connected to Susvara!

 

[orrman]

I do not have as much knowledge as some on this thread. But I do my homework and look up every amp someone mentions. There's always a pic on each webpage of it connected to Susvara!

Looking at your signature you're doing awesome friend, great gear. Enjoy the music and the journey!

 

[Nooborghini]

Then I added the Sus, TC and OG Utopia through the GSX Mini, which is just incredibly capable for the price. Easily as enjoyable as my stat rig at the time. From there I upgraded to the WA33, which I would say gave another 15% jump over the Mini. Kind of gives an idea of how this hobby works, $7k more give or take, but still a relatively small jump. But I really enjoyed the WA33. It was absolutely the perfect pairing for the TC (still don't know why lol), and drives the Susvara well and properly. The only thing is the WA33 is just a bit softer in bass compared to similar level amps, and that drives the difference in bass performance between in the TC a bit wider than it should be.

That was very detailed, I appreciate your thoughts on that!
The talk about the GSX Mini got me questioning if I should introduce that to the equation.

I think I vastly enjoy my FiiO M15 sound over the EF400 due to its cleanliness and how spacious it sounds over the EF400 which I was expecting since it provided more power, was going to be the winner. Was the same with my SMSL SP200/M200 stack. Felt the SP200/M200 was cold, dry, and narrow in its presentation. The details felt so condensed but it was all there while the M15 made me feel less claustrophobic.

My current dilemma is this:
I read previously that the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos was a small jump from the A90 / A90D.
I think a decently priced stack may be available. I still think I should keep the A90 D and wait for an AHB2 then maybe get a tube to pre it, that would probably give me a better return on the investment than an OOR + Hypsos I assume.

@xxearvinxx was supposed to have one coming to him in a week but don't see any posts regarding his impressions. I dm'd him but don't think he's active. I only have the ratings from SoundNews.

From https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/, his take is:

Topping A90

Offers much better transients and a much clearer picture to many amplifiers from this list. Power output isn’t that bad, the only things I disliked were dynamics, stage size and driver control. Could be used as a temporary solution.

• Resolution/Details: 9.5
• Transient Response: 9
• Dynamics: 6.5
• Tonality: 7.5
• Power/Control: 7
• Stage size: 6
• Overall score: 7.58

I think the A90D is a good "comparison point" to see the expectations of the upgrades down the road. The issue is I currently only have the EF400 to compare and that thing is... Not sure how I feel about it. The phasing issue is getting to me, I don't like the fact the imaging is messy but it is nice and relaxing.
I imagine the A90D will be like my SMSL M200/SP200 stack but cranked to 10 where it's a bit wider and just as clean. I felt the soundstage SMSL stack on the V2s and HD800 was a bit too narrow and didn't give me a good separation on the channels compared to what I was used to from my FiiO M15. (Maybe it's due to the non-balanced architecture)

Ferrum OOR + Hypsos PS

One of the best headphone amplifiers, specially tailored for Hifiman Susvara. It has an amazing tonality, sounds lush, alive and very engaging, hits hard and fully preserves dynamics. Has a lot of power to spare and it was specifically designed with Susvara in mind. It sounds smaller than Flux Labs Volot, but it improves dynamics and transient response. If you don’t like experimenting with speaker amplifiers, this is good as it gets. I’m beyond impressed by this pairing.

• Resolution/Details: 8
• Transient Response: 9
• Dynamics: 9
• Tonality: 8.5
• Power/Control: 9
• Stage size: 8
• Overall score: 8.58

Feel like going OOR stack loses too much over the AHB2. I do prefer to hear everything I can possibly hear in my tracks, discovering new nuances is such a nice feeling and I feel like going this route is the same thing as going down a path of tubes/R2R.

Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier – My Daily Driver V2.0

Holy mother of Thor, this is dynamics, speed, transient response, resolution and transparency incarnate into a single metal box. There isn’t a clearer, a more resolving or a more transparent sounding amplifier out there, this is a wire with gain amplifier that doesn’t add anything into the mix. It might appear as slightly thin and not as organic sounding, hence scoring much less when it comes to tonality and it never sounded as big as S300 or Volot. You can’t get a more impactful, a faster or cleaner sounding amplifier. You should pair it with a warmer source for a perfect match.

• Resolution/Details: 10
• Transient Response: 9.5
• Dynamics: 9.5
• Tonality: 7.5
• Power/Control: 9
• Stage Size: 8
• Overall Score: 8.92

I assume the tonality can be bumped up when we add a tube pre to the AHB2.

I wish I had the A90D here with me but it's with a mate in the states and won't be seeing it until a month from now, the Ferrum stack seems like a good deal since it's roughly $3300 CAD instead of the potentially being ~$4500 (new). Headphones.com doesn't even ship it to Ontario
AHB2 is roughly the same price as the OOR + Hypsos stack as well so I'm torn. I don't really WANT to spend the $3500 right now, maybe later on the year because I rather have my laser eye surgery sooner than the amp but the potential "savings" is getting to me.

I can relate to @BillinSF's AMP chain as that was something that I was thinking of as I read the reviews. Plus the WA22 would be really nice with my HD800S, always wanted to hear that pairing.

I guess what I think I'm looking for is a big "out of head" experience while keeping the details at maximum hence why I went the HEK v2 route but then the tonality of the Susvaras is something I don't want to give up either. Not sure if the differences in ranking will drastically change the Susvaras into a HEK v2 tonality/headroom but the worry is there.

 

[thecrow]

Just as an fyi, for those that may be interested, i found these he1000 v1 for $1299 open box

https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he1000-open-box.html

 

[chesebert]

Fyi, v1 is like a warmer Susvara with slightly more diffused soundstage and not quiet as solid bass response. Susvara has slightly higher resolution and slightly better surround soundstage, but it's like splitting hairs at that stage unless you have some TOTL source in the chain. V1 is definitely an easier listen than Susvara or V2 or SE, my view at least.

 

[Nooborghini]

I used the Auteur Hybrid Solids for around 6 month, because I liked the sound and comfort the most of all pads I tried.
After waiting impatiently for the different Caldera Pads showing up at ZMF, today I finally put the Caldera Thick (not Stock) pads on.
I was immediately hooked and recommend to everyone who liked the Auteuer Hybrid Solids to try these. I think the bigger inner diameter
and better centered cutout do the improvements. I hear a bigger stage, better timbre, more bass pressure and subbass.

Curious how you rolled these, I hear you need plastic brackets. Is there a special way you applied them?

 

[OCC7N]

Fyi, v1 is like a warmer Susvara with slightly more diffused soundstage and not quiet as solid bass response. Susvara has slightly higher resolution and slightly better surround soundstage, but it's like splitting hairs at that stage unless you have some TOTL source in the chain. V1 is definitely an easier listen than Susvara or V2 or SE, my view at least.

I am wondering which one to get now that I have Arya and Susvara. The V1 is discontinued right?

Im a little confused between the models.

HE1000v2
HE1000v1
HE1000SE

More models?