[thecrow]

Highly tempted by the price but it would be insane for me to purchase them blindly as I have yet to demo them. Unfortunately their Christmas sale ends one day before they reopen their stores.

Send them an email - they could well respond

 

[thecrow]

I am happy to say i have no idea who the two kids are. Is one Beiber???

 

[VintageAudio]

Is this the reason why I find that the only two amps I know of, which amplify in the current domain - the Bakoon amp-13r and the Questyle CMA 12 - make planar headphones really sing?
Even a quite famous headphone enthusiast in Germany called musicalhead. de states that the Susvara sound like heaven on the Bakoon amp.

Slight side-track - the Bakoon is something special. I brought my Amp-13R and listened to them on a pair of M3 Spatial Audio Open Baffle speakers that New Record Day is raving about. WOW - incredible holographic soundstage- great imaging, layers and depth. Everything I listened to sounded natural and alive. It's so tiny too - crazy engineering in that little puppy.

 

[Ethereal Sound]

So between the HSA-1b, the Formula XI + Powerman (w/XLR inputs), the Bakoon 13R, the Niimbus US4+, the Wells Audio Milo, Hifiman's own updated EF 1000, the Traformatic Primavera, and the Woo Audio WA33, which one will be the real Boss of bosses in driving the Susvara, if anyone can tell, assuming a "perfect DAC" is also in the chain in all cases?

So I've listened to the following:

• Formula XI - I really cannot recall my time with this amp very well but from my memories, it was a pretty decent amp with a very pleasant tonality. Warmish mids and a clear top end and decent bass. At the time I thought you could do better for the Susvara although it is an incredible amp for the Abyss.
• Niimbus US4+ - Neutral with slight bass boost. This amp has incredible clarity and imaging and really great bass. The instrument separation is quite remarkable and it is like viewing music through sparkling clean windows. though I think it can sound a bit thin in the mids at times so I think it's important to have a DAC that can compensate for this.
• Benchmark HPA4 - The most neutral sounding of all the amps on this list in my opinion. Extreme clarity, a little bright and very nice bass texture and bass detail though I personally wished for a bit more oomph on the bottom end. For my tastes, it was probably my least favorite. I also ran out of volume on this amp so make sure your DAC can output something like 6V.
• Trafomatic Primavera - One of the most versatile and most balanced sounding tube amps I've ever heard, period. This amp seemed to drive the Susvara with ease. It is incredibly holographic and generates the proper amount of space between each instrument and vocal to make it sound natural and convincing. Almost no grain to the music and is mostly neutral sounding with extremely smooth mids and treble. The bass is tight and does not have excess boom or emphasis. (I believe this was with stock tubes as I did not roll tubes on this)
• Woo Audio WA33 JPS Elite (stock tubes, did not roll) - Another incredible tube amp, I think this and the primavera are the most incredible tube amps I've heard for the Susvara. It is similar to the primavera in that it has an amazing holographic soundstage where you feel that every part of the music has its own space yet sounds cohesive and natural. The bass has enough authority and rumble with texture and layering that reveals all the little details in the bass.
• Auris Nirvana - I mainly listened to this through the KT77's as I preferred it over the EL34 on this amp. With the KT77, this amp has a very holographic sound stage and very good depth and imaging. The top end is smooth but not too rolled off and the bass is very well textured and gives off satisfying rumble. Vocals (particularly male) sound full and realistic. EL34 sounds warmer in the mids but looser in the bass and just a bit too rolled off in the treble for my taste.
• Riviera AIC10 - Very romantic sounding, I loved the bass presentation on this amp although I found that it is a bit looser sounding and not as tight as some of the other amps on this list. It has a slight grain to the sound though it's like extra fine grain and is extremely pleasant to listen to as it does not lose out on resolution. Just slightly laid back sounding with smooth treble and warm mids. Apart from the bass, this amp was not really my cup of tea in terms of presentation. Also, I found that I actually found that I would max out the volume on this amp without reaching my desired listening levels on some tracks so keep that in mind if you listen to music on the slightly louder side or listen to lots of music with very high dynamic range.
• Wells Audio Headtrip II level II (this one I don't recall very well so I won't comment on it though said friend says it is one of his favorite SS amps ever)
• Super Symmetry Dynahi - This is my personal unit and is an absolute beast and has absolute authority with power to spare and then some. The presentation of this DAC is much more upfront and intense. Incredibly powerful dynamic swings and powerful bass with a slight hint of warmth in the mids and a very clean and extended top end.

The only thing I can say is that I did not listen to a "perfect DAC" out of all of these though I can pretty much say that the DAC was never a bottleneck (DAVE, MSB Premier, Matrix XSP)

Edit: I have also heard the Wells Audio Milo as well as the Violectric V200 and while they sound good, I do not think they are in the same class as the above amps.

 

[sahmen]

Hey @thecrow ; I am a little torn here : on the one hand, I think I understand your skepticism, given that we are dealing with 8 amps here, all of which are quite expensive to their own different degrees. On the other hand, I am surprised, because this is head-fi where such large scale comparisons of components are not uncommon at all, and you seem to know your way around the site quite well, so what gives?.

For example, I am sure you have read the review of the Niimbus US4+ done by @project86 at >> this link <<, where he compares the Niimbus to a ton of other amps in several price brackets, including "Eddie Current Balancing Act, SimAudio 430HA, Eleven XI Audio Formula S, Auralic Taurus mkII, Woo Audio WA5LE, iFi Pro iCAN, Questyle CMA800R monoblocks, ALO Studio Six, Violectric V281, DNA Stratus, TTVJ Millet 307A (precursor to the Apex Pinnacle) and Pass Labs HPA-1" (and those are not the only amps he mentions in that review). Add that to the equally large number of different DACs, not to mention headphones (including the Susvara) that he throws into the process in order to do an in-depth multi-layered review which give tos the reader a wealth of perspectives from which to assess the performance of the Niimbus US4+ and what you have got is quite a tour de force, which dwarfs the relatively modest comparative review of 8 amps that I am dreaming of here...

To give another famous, if old, example, which makes the 8-amp comparison being asked for on this site look like a little stroll in the park,

have you visited @DavidMahler 's >> Battle of the flagships << forum where he compares about 58 different headphones using his own devised metrics that he makes quite easy for the reader to understand?

I am not arguing that either of these examples are without their flaws. What is undeniable is that the two gentlemen have both offered a valuable and relatively well ordered system of comparisons that any interested enthusiasts might find very helpful, at least as a starting point, even if they do not necessarily always agree with the opinions or results expressed in the comparative analysis.

I know of other examples of such comparative assessments and compilations offered by head-fi members, who for one reason or another, happen to have access to a wide range of audio components falling either in the same or diverse categories. All we may need is for one such person (or a few of them) to take an interest in the Susvara and the amps we have been discussing here, and we'll be in business. Compared to what others--such as those mentioned above--have already accomplished, It is not too hard for me to imagine the existence of an enthusiast for whom the comparisons I am dreaming about here might be as easy as a cakewalk. I will just keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

PS
Wow @Ethereal Sound , what an analysis! I wish I had seen your post before starting this one. Thanks.

I hope you've already made a believer out of @thecrow

 

[thecrow]

Hey @thecrow ; I am a little torn here : on the one hand, I think I understand your skepticism, given that we are dealing with 8 amps here, all of which are quite expensive to their own different degrees. On the other hand, I am surprised, because this is head-fi where such large scale comparisons of components are not uncommon at all, and you seem to know your way around the site quite well, so what gives?.

For example, I am sure you have read the review of the Niimbus US4+ done by @project86 at >> this link <<, where he compares the Niimbus to a ton of other amps in several price brackets, including "Eddie Current Balancing Act, SimAudio 430HA, Eleven XI Audio Formula S, Auralic Taurus mkII, Woo Audio WA5LE, iFi Pro iCAN, Questyle CMA800R monoblocks, ALO Studio Six, Violectric V281, DNA Stratus, TTVJ Millet 307A (precursor to the Apex Pinnacle) and Pass Labs HPA-1" (and those are not the only amps he mentions in that review). Add that to the equally large number of different DACs, not to mention headphones (including the Susvara) that he throws into the process in order to do an in-depth multi-layered review which give tos the reader a wealth of perspectives from which to assess the performance of the Niimbus US4+ and what you have got is quite a tour de force, which dwarfs the relatively modest comparative review of 8 amps that I am dreaming of here...

To give another famous, if old, example, which makes the 8-amp comparison being asked for on this site look like a little stroll in the park,

have you visited @DavidMahler 's >> Battle of the flagships << forum where he compares about 58 different headphones using his own devised metrics that he makes quite easy for the reader to understand?

I am not arguing that either of these examples are without their flaws. What is undeniable is that the two gentlemen have both offered a valuable and relatively well ordered system of comparisons that any interested enthusiasts might find very helpful, at least as a starting point, even if they do not necessarily always agree with the opinions or results expressed in the comparative analysis.

I know of other examples of such comparative assessments and compilations offered by head-fi members, who for one reason or another, happen to have access to a wide range of audio components falling either in the same or diverse categories. All we may need is for one such person (or a few of them) to take an interest in the Susvara and the amps we have been discussing here, and we'll be in business. Compared to what others--such as those mentioned above--have already accomplished, It is not too hard for me to imagine the existence of an enthusiast for whom the comparisons I am dreaming about here might be as easy as a cakewalk. I will just keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

Hi. I am hugely appreciative of comparative reviews like these that you mention

the reason i bought the susvaras and niimbus us4 was because of the project86 review. I was never going to hear a range myself and i in fact bought the niimbus blind

all i was previously saying is though a number of members have heard/demoed/owned a number of headphones it is rare that someone has heard a big range of specific “big amps” - hence the value of the project86 review and the post above from @Ethereal Sound

as much as i am enjoying my niimbus i have no idea how it compares to others in the discussion except for any views that i read from members who have heard the niimbus and other options

also my previous posts with gifs and supertramp were meant as lighthearted posts

but again, views shared by members who have heard a range of top end amps and dacs are much appreciated by me too - as i feel they can be as rare as hens teeth at times

cheers

 

[Articnoise]

So I've listened to the following:

• Formula XI - I really cannot recall my time with this amp very well but from my memories, it was a pretty decent amp with a very pleasant tonality. Warmish mids and a clear top end and decent bass. At the time I thought you could do better for the Susvara although it is an incredible amp for the Abyss.
• Niimbus US4+ - Neutral with slight bass boost. This amp has incredible clarity and imaging and really great bass. The instrument separation is quite remarkable and it is like viewing music through sparkling clean windows. though I think it can sound a bit thin in the mids at times so I think it's important to have a DAC that can compensate for this.
• Benchmark HPA4 - The most neutral sounding of all the amps on this list in my opinion. Extreme clarity, a little bright and very nice bass texture and bass detail though I personally wished for a bit more oomph on the bottom end. For my tastes, it was probably my least favorite. I also ran out of volume on this amp so make sure your DAC can output something like 6V.
• Trafomatic Primavera - One of the most versatile and most balanced sounding tube amps I've ever heard, period. This amp seemed to drive the Susvara with ease. It is incredibly holographic and generates the proper amount of space between each instrument and vocal to make it sound natural and convincing. Almost no grain to the music and is mostly neutral sounding with extremely smooth mids and treble. The bass is tight and does not have excess boom or emphasis. (I believe this was with stock tubes as I did not roll tubes on this)
• Woo Audio WA33 JPS Elite (stock tubes, did not roll) - Another incredible tube amp, I think this and the primavera are the most incredible tube amps I've heard for the Susvara. It is similar to the primavera in that it has an amazing holographic soundstage where you feel that every part of the music has its own space yet sounds cohesive and natural. The bass has enough authority and rumble with texture and layering that reveals all the little details in the bass.
• Auris Nirvana - I mainly listened to this through the KT88's as I preferred it over the EL34 on this amp. With the KT88, this amp has a very holographic sound stage and very good depth and imaging. The top end is smooth but not too rolled off and the bass is very well textured and gives off satisfying rumble. Vocals (particularly male) sound full and realistic. EL34 sounds warmer in the mids but looser in the bass and just a bit too rolled off in the treble for my taste.
• Riviera AIC10 - Very romantic sounding, I loved the bass presentation on this amp although I found that it is a bit looser sounding and not as tight as some of the other amps on this list. It has a slight grain to the sound though it's like extra fine grain and is extremely pleasant to listen to as it does not lose out on resolution. Just slightly laid back sounding with smooth treble and warm mids. Apart from the bass, this amp was not really my cup of tea in terms of presentation. Also, I found that I actually found that I would max out the volume on this amp without reaching my desired listening levels on some tracks so keep that in mind if you listen to music on the slightly louder side or listen to lots of music with very high dynamic range.
• Wells Audio Headtrip II level II (this one I don't recall very well so I won't comment on it though said friend says it is one of his favorite SS amps ever)
• Super Symmetry Dynahi - This is my personal unit and is an absolute beast and has absolute authority with power to spare and then some. The presentation of this DAC is much more upfront and intense. Incredibly powerful dynamic swings and powerful bass with a slight hint of warmth in the mids and a very clean and extended top end.

The only thing I can say is that I did not listen to a "perfect DAC" out of all of these though I can pretty much say that the DAC was never a bottleneck (DAVE, MSB Premier, Matrix XSP)

Edit: I have also heard the Wells Audio Milo as well as the Violectric V200 and while they sound good, I do not think they are in the same class as the above amps.

Great, now I only like to know how these amps you like sound compared to decent speaker amps like Pass Labs XA25/INT-30A and MOON 600i.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

fair enough although the wa33 is I believe 8K in the standard format...

I think though you would need the upgraded tubes (circa. US$1.5 to US$2k) for the WA33 to bring it up to the Trafomatic Primavera and EF-1000 performance.

Along with the Trafomatic Primavera, I think the WA33 is the nicest looking amp, both of them being a kind of functional show piece.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

good luck finding someone (let alone a few people) who have tried them all

Which makes our wonderful hobby even more enticing to tread the long winding path of life to find different pieces of equipment to try including this list of wonderful Amps.

 

[sahmen]

I am happy to say i have no idea who the two kids are. Is one Beiber???

Hey @thecrow :

Meet Mr Bieber and Mr Jaden Smith

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

The Formula S and Powerman is 6 watts into 16ohms, correct? So 3W into 32 and approximately 1.5+W into the Susvara’s 60? Am I reading/understanding that right?

Yes that is correct (using the simple steady state Ohms Laws comes out at 1.6W with the Susvara's at a nominal 60 Ohms).

Not a lot of power for the Susvara's that can go beyond 20W, but as other Head-Fi.org Members have stated in past posts it's not always about the pure raw power.

The Formula S was specifically made for the Abyyss 1266 which are nominal 46 Ohms (Phi TC) which would give them approx. a shy over 2.0 Watts. However both Abyss and many Head-Fi.org members say that the 1266's with the Formula S is an amazing combo. And yet the 1266 can accept a far greater power loading.

So the question is, is it a high voltage or a high current that makes Planer Headphones sing or both ?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Damn. Shows how amazing Susvara is! What do you usually listen to and what other TOTLs have you heard?

Hi smodtactical, I listen to all genres of music. Even though for a TOTL Headphone, the Susvara's a quite forgiving, no matter what the music genre is, if has been badly produced or poorly recored the Susvara's will show it.
I have listened to many hi-end headphones and owned one of the best TOTL Headphone Systems i.e. the famous BHSE with the Stax 009's (which in CanJam London 2015 was the best system there hence why I bought it).

To my ears the Susvara linked to my Chord Choral speaker system beats BHSE & 009 combo system hands down.

I am currently thinking that a dedicated TOTL Headphone Amp for the Susvara will widen that gap even more. I hope to witness that during Q1 & Q2 of 2021 (UK COVID restrictions and non-lockdown permitting !)

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Great, now I only like to know how these amps you like sound compared to decent speaker amps like Pass Labs XA25/INT-30A and MOON 600i.

That would be great Articnoise as some of us Head-Fi.org members know that the Susvara's also perform exceptionally well with speaker amps.

 

[simorag]

Great, now I only like to know how these amps you like sound compared to decent speaker amps like Pass Labs XA25/INT-30A and MOON 600i.

I listened to the Susvara on the following amps, listed in order of increasing personal preference:

XI Audio Formula S / Powerman
Moon 600i (V1)
Pass XA25
Riviera AIC-10
VIVA Audio Solista

XA25 and Solista were not on my set-up, so there is that.

Honestly I did not find any of the above lacking in terms of raw power, at least in terms of perceived compression or distortion at my regular listening levels.

I felt the Formula S was relatively unrefined relatively speaking (especially in the midrange area), and the 600i was - in my system - a bit too clinical 'un-emotional' sounding, while projecting the largest soundstage together with the Solista.

The XA25 was a great match, showing the same iron grip of the 600i on the lower end, together with some more meat to the bone on the midrange which I tend to like, the only drawback being its tendency to run very hot and perhaps some less airy top end.

The AIC-10 drove the Susvara with ease through the speaker taps (the designer told me it should provide close to 3W RMS and 9W peak at 1% distortion into the Susvara load, via the speaker out). With the tube I use with the Abyss TC (a NOS Mullard) it actually tended towards a romantic type of presentation - which I find very seductive personally, especially for longer listening sessions - while with a more neutral / dynamic tube like my Fivre I got a punchier / more open delivery. Bass response was very good, with the typical bloom I like on the AIC-10.

The Solista was - to my ears and taste - the best suited for the Susvara, in terms of trade off between transparency, dynamics, midrange structure and soundstage.
It provided the most compelling balance between accuracy and emotional engagement. In the end I chose to keep my AIC-10 mostly because of practical reasons (space and heat produced) and because I slightly prefer the AIC-10 with the Abyss.

All the above is based on a 100% acoustic musical content, mostly classical and jazz.

 

[Articnoise]

I listened to the Susvara on the following amps, listed in order of increasing personal preference:

XI Audio Formula S / Powerman
Moon 600i (V1)
Pass XA25
Riviera AIC-10
VIVA Audio Solista

XA25 and Solista were not on my set-up, so there is that.

Honestly I did not find any of the above lacking in terms of raw power, at least in terms of perceived compression or distortion at my regular listening levels.

I felt the Formula S was relatively unrefined relatively speaking (especially in the midrange area), and the 600i was - in my system - a bit too clinical 'un-emotional' sounding, while projecting the largest soundstage together with the Solista.

The XA25 was a great match, showing the same iron grip of the 600i on the lower end, together with some more meat to the bone on the midrange which I tend to like, the only drawback being its tendency to run very hot and perhaps some less airy top end.

The AIC-10 drove the Susvara with ease through the speaker taps (the designer told me it should provide close to 3W RMS and 9W peak at 1% distortion into the Susvara load, via the speaker out). With the tube I use with the Abyss TC (a NOS Mullard) it actually tended towards a romantic type of presentation - which I find very seductive personally, especially for longer listening sessions - while with a more neutral / dynamic tube like my Fivre I got a punchier / more open delivery. Bass response was very good, with the typical bloom I like on the AIC-10.

The Solista was - to my ears and taste - the best suited for the Susvara, in terms of trade off between transparency, dynamics, midrange structure and soundstage.
It provided the most compelling balance between accuracy and emotional engagement. In the end I chose to keep my AIC-10 mostly because of practical reasons (space and heat produced) and because I slightly prefer the AIC-10 with the Abyss.

All the above is based on a 100% acoustic musical content, mostly classical and jazz.

Great, now I only like to know how these amps you liked the best sound compared to Woo Audio WA33 JPS Elite and Trafomatic Primavera?