[theveterans]

It's all about current with susvara, power specs don't mean much, that's why amps like the hm1 and 465 drives it insanely amazing yet their power specs are super low

Narukami amp with only 1.6 watts drives it divinely well too

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

thx everyone for the info. So how can we know the current of an amp, looking at its power comsumption?

 

[Polygonhell]

It's all about current with susvara, power specs don't mean much.

This gets repeated a lot and makes absolutely no sense, Power is just a function of Current and Voltage, Voltage is just volume.
FWIW I'm absolutely agreeing that there is more to this than just Power, I just don't think it's just Current either.

Planar headphones are pretty much pure resistive loads, so you can't even just look at impedance curves for a good reason.

It is true that more powerful amps tend to perform better, but I don't think in this case correlation is causation, and their are exceptions like the WA23.
I also have a 2A3 amp I designed and built here that probably puts out <1W into 60 Ohms, and while not ideal (wasn't designed for that load) it sounds better than most amps do with the Susvara.

There might be something in Amps with oversized power supplies, and their ability to quickly respond to changes in demand, which is true of pretty much every speaker amp used to drive a headphone. But class A amps just don't vary in current draw dramatically regardless of the input, and they do vary in how they drive the Susvara.

Quality of power is certainly an issue but there are what I would consider great headphone amps that get a Susvara loud, that don't do the Susvara justice.

 

[BassicScience]

thx everyone for the info. So how can we know the current of an amp, looking at its power comsumption?

Firstly, an amp's power consumption comes down to its efficiency (related to topology and other factors), and isn't particularly germane to how much power it can deliver to a given load before distorting audibly, which is what most people care about (except when they pay their electricity bill).

When an amp is operating within its nominal limits (at low distortion) into a primarily resistive load (non-estat), the amount of current it must deliver is simply V/Z (voltage divided by headphone's impedance). As the required current increases past a certain (amp-dependent) point, distortion is introduced either through sagging of the power supply voltages, or due to slew rate limitations of the amp. For very insensitive headphones requiring a lot of voltage to get loud, clipping will occur when said voltage exceeds that of the power supply rails, but that's a separate issue.

Where the above current limitations start to manifest themselves is different for every amp, and while they can be calculated from the circuit diagram, it's typically (best) done by lab measurement. Unfortunately, the availability (and verified accuracy) of said measurements is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Firstly, an amp's power consumption comes down to its efficiency (related to topology and other factors), and isn't particularly germane to how much power it can deliver to a given load before distorting audibly, which is what most people care about (except when they pay their electricity bill).

When an amp is operating within its nominal limits (at low distortion) into a primarily resistive load (non-estat), the amount of current it must deliver is simply V/Z (voltage divided by headphone's impedance). As the required current increases past a certain (amp-dependent) point, distortion is introduced either through sagging of the power supply voltages, or due to slew rate limitations of the amp. For very insensitive headphones requiring a lot of voltage to get loud, clipping will occur when said voltage exceeds that of the power supply rails, but that's a separate issue.

Where the above current limitations start to manifest themselves is different for every amp, and while they can be calculated from the circuit diagram, it's typically (best) done by lab measurement. Unfortunately, the availability (and verified accuracy) of said measurements is the exception rather than the rule.

Sorry for my english . I m from Madrid. Thx for the reply. Im trying to understand mainly how to best the soundstage capabilities of susvara for my next amp.

 

[TDinCali]

Sorry for my english . I m from Madrid. Thx for the reply. Im trying to understand mainly how to best the soundstage capabilities of susvara for my next amp.

A really good 300B tube amp.

 

[jlbrach]

https://www.ecoustics.com/products/hifiman-ef1000dac/

hifiman advertises this to be a better amp with 14 watts per channel more than enough for any HP imaginable...I did hear it but of course it is tough to describe nuance but I can say with certainty it drives the susvara with ease as it is designed to

 

[trollbearpig]

Seconding the 300b tube amp. TheVeterans hit it on the head when describing the Susvaras as a cathedral hall sound when using tubes.

Its honestly insane how good my Susvaras are sounding with this setup. The sound is just so addicting. I thought I wanted a SS detailed sounding system but I was so wrong. One thing im noticing is I can play my music much louder with the tube amp and its just soo enjoyable. I could never play loudly with the Topping A90, it had a kind of shouty feel ? Hard to explain, but yeah it’s a night and day difference with the improvements i’m seeing. Everything is smoothed out and has much more weight. Im hooked

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

I know. My first post was asking to envy and cayin owners if they could deliver insane loud even with very low mastered songs like “mi hart will go on” (just an example). One cayin owner was very kind and honest and told me the ha300 was not mi pick if i liked very loud. Im still waiting the envy answer. Ef1000 is too expensive for me. In that range id would choose the trafomatic primavera because the solid state output stage of the ef1000.
I was going to buy the cayin 2000$ preamp, but i couldnt find enough info.
Does anyone knows if with a good tube preamp before burson i could have the holographic sound that tubes gives with the second and third order harmonics in the attack?

 

[jlbrach]

Seconding the 300b tube amp. TheVeterans hit it on the head when describing the Susvaras as a cathedral hall sound when using tubes.

Its honestly insane how good my Susvaras are sounding with this setup. The sound is just so addicting. I thought I wanted a SS detailed sounding system but I was so wrong. One thing im noticing is I can play my music much louder with the tube amp and its just soo enjoyable. I could never play loudly with the Topping A90, it had a kind of shouty feel ? Hard to explain, but yeah it’s a night and day difference with the improvements i’m seeing. Everything is smoothed out and has much more weight. Im hooked

lets face it using a topping amp as your base of comparison isnt aiming high...I have found the envy with upgraded tubes an improvement of note over a SS amp as good and powerful as the CFA3

 

[Leto Dal]

I know. My first post was asking to envy and cayin owners if they could deliver insane loud even with very low mastered songs like “mi hart will go on” (just an example). One cayin owner was very kind and honest and told me the ha300 was not mi pick if i liked very loud. Im still waiting the envy answer. Ef1000 is too expensive for me. In that range id would choose the trafomatic primavera because the solid state output stage of the ef1000.
I was going to buy the cayin 2000$ preamp, but i couldnt find enough info.
Does anyone knows if with a good tube preamp before burson i could have the holographic sound that tubes gives with the second and third order harmonics in the attack?

What exactly is the question? If you can listen loud on Susvara with Envy? I can easily max out the Bliss with Susvara, but was never even near "12" on Envy. Badly mastered songs will likely sound crap though, like with almost every resolving system with elavated treble - but its more of a Susvara thing than Envy.

 

[trollbearpig]

lets face it using a topping amp as your base of comparison isnt aiming high...I have found the envy with upgraded tubes an improvement of note over a SS amp as good and powerful as the CFA3

This is true, but I will add that I am coming from the recent Tampa audio expo and Ny canjam, and after plugging the Sus into every amp I could find, the Cayin tube amps and the Envy were the only ones that had me coming back for more. Actually the CFA3 was pretty damn nice though for a SS amp

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

lets face it using a topping amp as your base of comparison isnt aiming high...I have found the envy with upgraded tubes an improvement of note over a SS amp as good and powerful as the CFA3

I have zero doubt envy sounds much better than my burson 3xGT, and of course my topping. In fact envy is on the top of my preferences. Even with electro harmonix tubes (i have an EH tube pedal and it rocks). Only a couple of doubts, i have read that isnt as good in soundstage width than amps with tube rectifier. And the other question is again, if its loud enough with low music.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

What exactly is the question? If you can listen loud on Susvara with Envy? I can easily max out the Bliss with Susvara, but was never even near "12" on Envy. Badly mastered songs will likely sound crap though, like with almost every resolving system with elavated treble - but its more of a Susvara thing than Envy.

I dont mean bad recording and mixing. I mean low mastered. Celine Dion my hart will go on is very well recorded and mixed but its mastered very quiet. Another example, Vangelis blade runner ost. With my arya of 103 db i can make celine s voice to sound like listen to a giant in my room. With susvara when it begins to be big i get distortion.
If im gonna expend 7k or 10k i want to be able to make every thing sound giant.

 

[jlbrach]

I have zero doubt envy sounds much better than my burson 3xGT, and of course my topping. In fact envy is on the top of my preferences. Even with electro harmonix tubes (i have an EH tube pedal and it rocks). Only a couple of doubts, i have read that isnt as good in soundstage width than amps with tube rectifier. And the other question is again, if its loud enough with low music.

it is plenty loud...in fact I am shocked how much gain the envy puts out and the soundstage is very wide and can be changed with different tubes...all in all an outstanding experience for me