[jasswolf]

Do you know if the new pads are available for purchase anywhere? On the Hifiman site I see the Pali Pads and Focus-A pads. Are these Focus-A or some other pad?

I have the Pali Pads.

I've not seen them available yet, but visually they look very similar to the Pali pads, they're just angled differently (more angled it seems) and seal properly enough to remove the bass roll-off.

It's possible that this is the pad you now get if you order Pali pads, but I'd contact HIFIMAN directly to confirm that.

I have this.

It was sent to me at 2020.
And yes I hear it as a bright and lean headphone.

What are the new pads?
I must ask Hifiman to send me because the graph you have posted looks like another headphone!

So if that is the case I need to revise my review.

My evaluation of the sound is similar to that 2021 stock graph: flat, analytical with a bit of treble spice, just not to the point of sibilance or being piercing.

Planar timbre is present, but only when directly compared against an excellent dynamic headphone (in my case, the ATH-R70X). Soundstage and imaging are very solid, perhaps improved.

Thats interesting, do you know how it compares with the original Sundara pads?

The Pali pads are the original Sundara pads.

 

[Ichos]

@jasswolf

That is my evaluation too and what I wrote in my review but what I am hearing does not match the graph.
Bass quantity is no way on par with the graph.
Mid bass and mids are great.
Timbre is a bit of at upper mid - treble.
Not piercing.
Graph though doesn't display necessarily the sound as it is heard.
Depends on rig and compensation curve.

 

[jasswolf]

EDIT: double post

 

[jasswolf]

@jasswolf

That is my evaluation too and what I wrote in my review but what I am hearing does not match the graph.
Bass quantity is no way on par with the graph.
Mid bass and mids are great.
Timbre is a bit of at upper mid - treble.
Not piercing.
Graph though doesn't display necessarily the sound as it is heard.
Depends on rig and compensation curve.

I definitely feel that curve is accurate: for the most part, the upper mids are not as high energy as Harman. The bass is there.

You might need to get your hands on the update? Subjectivity is a factor here too, but I'm hearing a lot of what the graph is showing.

 

[Ichos]

I definitely feel that curve is accurate: for the most part, the upper mids are not as high energy as Harman. The bass is there.

You might need to get your hands on the update? Subjectivity is a factor here too, but I'm hearing a lot of what the graph is showing.

Mine seems like the update.
The pads have that asymmetrical shape.
Anyway people might perceive sound differently.
I have been listening yesterday with the Sundara and various other headphones.
This is definitely the most bright and lean sounding of the bunch.
Ananda is way more superior in technicalities and worth the extra cash.
Naturally tuned with a bright tilt.
Deva (HE5XX) are the most naturally tuned.
I will peak them anytime instead of the Sundara.
But everything is subjective and I can see why people should prefer the Sundara.

Can someone post a picture of the new pads?

 

[ManuLM]

Here's a picture of the pads of my Sundaras received last week from Hifiman shop

 

[jasswolf]

Here's a picture of the pads of my Sundaras received last week from Hifiman shop

That's not an ideal way to show off angled pads, but those don't look like new pads.

 

[ManuLM]

true, now that you mention it
They are actually angled, 1.5cm width of the pseudo leather pad part on the front, 2.6mm at the back.

 

[ManuLM]

I've done some more listening tests between HD650 and Sundara, running on O2+ODAC.
Build quality is very good on the Sundara. Mostly a leather headband, and a metal frame. Screws on the side of the cup can a bit agressive/sharp, so take care when you store the headset on a potentially scratchable surface. HD650 are mostly platic, but it is very cleverly designed. Most parts fit in well, and can easily be replaced given the wide and long lasting distribution of the headset, starting with earpads and headband cushion.
Comfortwise, I feel the senns are nicer, they are ligher, clamping is also reduced, and the cable is much nicer to use (more flexible, and longer).
Soundwise, Sundara has an obvious better bass extention, a better impact, and I like that very little sting in the high, not harsh, but it makes high more present/sharp.
Sound wise, I think I still like the mids better on the Sennheiser, and overall musicality sound a bit better on the Senns (just a bit).
Sundara is more "surgical" - analytical, more separation, mids are a bit less forward I would say. Soundstage is wider, but then mids are a tad more in your face on the HD650.
I can't help but think Sennheiser did an amazing job, I believe this is now like 20 years ago, and still so good.
Sundara still sound like an improvement over HD650 overall, and are also extremely enjoyable cans.
Last point, Sundaras leak to the outside a lot, they are very open. HD650 also, but I believe to a lower extend.

 

[luizffgarcia]

delete

 

[luizffgarcia]

If your findings are consistent with the graph you linked, then you haven't gotten the more recent pad update, and aren't posting accurate reflections of what users would be buying with 2020/2021 stock.



This is how much the pad change (and pad fitment change) the sound.

I am confused about this, the description of the PaliPads in hifiman's website states: "Package contains two pieces of earpads. They are SUNDARA's stock earpads and also compatible with all HE-series headphones (including HE400S, 400i, 300, 400, 500, 4, 5, 6, 5LE)."

I got the 2021 Sundaras and i was under the impression it has PaliPads, but your measurements show its not true. Maybe their pads are just not consistent and no pair is exactly like the other?

 

[jasswolf]

I am confused about this, the description of the PaliPads in hifiman's website states: "Package contains two pieces of earpads. They are SUNDARA's stock earpads and also compatible with all HE-series headphones (including HE400S, 400i, 300, 400, 500, 4, 5, 6, 5LE)."

I got the 2021 Sundaras and i was under the impression it has PaliPads, but your measurements show its not true. Maybe their pads are just not consistent and no pair is exactly like the other?

The results shown here (which aren't mine) are consistent with previous measurements by both Resolve and Oratory.

These are updated Pali pads, it's just difficult to identify if these are the pads you'll be getting if you buy separately. It's possible such stock might be older, and thus produce the original tuning.

 

[jsmiller58]

The results shown here (which aren't mine) are consistent with previous measurements by both Resolve and Oratory.

These are updated Pali pads, it's just difficult to identify if these are the pads you'll be getting if you buy separately. It's possible such stock might be older, and thus produce the original tuning.

Yeah, I have Sundara that I purchased in 2018. I bought new Pali Pads in December 2020. They look identical to the 2018 ones, rounded edges rather than the flatter, more 90 degree version... so I think there is still old stock out there...

 

[luizffgarcia]

Yeah, I have Sundara that I purchased in 2018. I bought new Pali Pads in December 2020. They look identical to the 2018 ones, rounded edges rather than the flatter, more 90 degree version... so I think there is still old stock out there...

I guess we got lucky, unless i am reading this graph wrong the sub-bass in the old pads is much better than in the new Pali Pads?

 

[jasswolf]

I guess we got lucky, unless i am reading this graph wrong the sub-bass in the old pads is much better than in the new Pali Pads?

You're definitely reading that wrong.

Before late 2019, the Pali pads and the Sundara stock pads were one in the same.