[Jman841]

Hm yeah, I've seen a lot people using these oratory EQ's lately. Not sure how how much I trust the measurements to be this precise to be EQ'ing this extensively. Maybe I'll try it out, but I suspect a lot of people probably end up with some kinda weird sound signatures doing stuff like this and never realize it. The measurements just aren't 100% accurate and if the peaks and dips are even a little off, you're going to be creating a new set of problems.

In the end though, if it sounds good to you I can't argue with that!

Yea, I'm still messing with it but it does seem to be pretty well done. It depends on the headphone manufacturer as well, some companies like Sennheiser have impressive repeatability between headphones. Other companies there may be larger variances between individual headphones and the results may not be very good.

 

[cycloverid]

Sounds a bit strange to me, but I'll try A/B'ing it for a while. This is why I'm weary of extensive EQ, is my brain used to the old sound that is slightly wrong? Or will my brain get used to this new sound, which is slightly worse or slightly better?

Regarding my left channel cutting out earlier, I swapped the L/R inputs for a few hours without issue and then swapped them back. I noticed the left cable input was a bit tougher to get a solid connection (slightly harder to fully snap in) and haven't noticed the issue since. Maybe it was as simple as that?

 

[descloud]

Not sure how how much I trust the measurements to be this precise to be EQ'ing this extensively

The measurements just aren't 100% accurate and if the peaks and dips are even a little off, you're going to be creating a new set of problems

He is using a GRAS measuring rig, which is an industry standard if you didn't know yet - so you can bet his FR graphs are as accurate with respect to the specific model he measured barring unit variance and pad age aside.

If you're specifically looking for 100.00% accuracy, you're never gonna get that number realistically speaking.

but I suspect a lot of people probably end up with some kinda weird sound signatures doing stuff like this and never realize it

His EQ profile is following to the Harman 2018 target curve with the data points he has iirc. The difference between everyone's hearing is down to individual HRTF, but it will largely sound the same across every model he measured disregarding unit variance and difference in pad condition.

 

[cycloverid]

He is using a GRAS measuring rig, which is an industry standard if you didn't know yet - so you can bet his FR graphs are as accurate with respect to the specific model he measured barring unit variance and pad age aside.

If you're specifically looking for 100.00% accuracy, you're never gonna get that number realistically speaking.


His EQ profile is following to the Harman 2018 target curve with the data points he has iirc. The difference between everyone's hearing is down to individual HRTF, but it will largely sound the same across every model he measured disregarding unit variance and difference in pad condition.

Yeah, I understand roughly how these measurements have evolved. I also know he's using the Harman 2018 target. I'm not looking for 100% accuracy, but I know the Sundara measures well out of the box despite some differences in measured results. Applying EQ isn't guaranteed to make your headphone match the Harman target more closely though - and sometimes being conservative is best in my personal experience. Like you said, I'd have a lot more confidence if the measurement was for my personal Sundara.

Just observe the differences between oratory's 2019 and 2020 EQ settings for the Sundara to see how wildly different they can be to try to match the same target. Are these the differences between two different Sundara units or simply a more accurate measurement? Looks like the explanation is the pad revision.

 

[descloud]

Applying EQ isn't guaranteed to make your headphone match the Harman target more closely though - and sometimes being conservative is best in my personal experience

It doesn't, and AutoEQ posted a ranking of headphones that when EQ'd deviates the least from the Harman Target Response (which you can see on this page). Of course this doesn't mean you won't enjoy your headphone in stock tuning.

Just observe the differences between oratory's 2019 and 2020 EQ settings for the Sundara to see how wildly different they can be to try to match the same target. Are these the differences between two different Sundara units or simply a more accurate measurement?

Yeah just looked at it. I will attribute that to likely being Hifiman's unit variance and/or possibly internal changes (dust cover, pad material/size/structure, dampening material used on grills) than oratory's measurements per se. It's difficult to put doubt in industry standard equipment used.

If you want to go the extra mile in verifying his measurements, you can personally message him here or on other forums he frequents (which I think reddit is one of them).

 

[cycloverid]

@descloud thanks that link is helpful

I'm at my wits end now with this channel cutting out. I just had it repeat today on the left side. I switched the L/R inputs on the cable and then it happened on the right side after a couple hours. But, I can't reproduce this by lightly tugging on the cable or wiggling the plugs. Having the problem happen on the other side after switching the channels makes it very likely to be a cable issue, but it's not at all easy to reproduce.

Anyone have anything like this happen? I apologize if this is the wrong place for this issue.

edit: after removing my Hart Audio Cable, it appears there is a slight bend in the left channel connector that is likely the issue. This was likely shipped this way as it's only 2 weeks old.

 

[Edward777]

I'm strongly considering asking for these for Christmas, or buying them myself if no one else does (!!!). My current headphone is the Sennheiser HD600, which I love, but I'm always looking for something else to complement it. I have a Schiit Magni/Modi 2 Uber stack in terms of source and amping.

I was strongly considering the HiFiMan HE400i or 400S for the longest time, but it seems like the Sundaras are worth the extra dough for many people, and I hear a lot that the Sundaras are pretty much the best headphones you can get for under $500.

Owners of the Sundaras, do you guys think it's worth getting them? Is there anything else in the price range you'd rather get (keep in mind I already have an HD600, so I doubt I'm gonna get, say, an HD6XX anytime soon, no matter how much I'd like one).

 

[robm321]

^ yes it's worth it, and I don't say that's often.

 

[jsmiller58]

I'm strongly considering asking for these for Christmas, or buying them myself if no one else does (!!!). My current headphone is the Sennheiser HD600, which I love, but I'm always looking for something else to complement it. I have a Schiit Magni/Modi 2 Uber stack in terms of source and amping.

I was strongly considering the HiFiMan HE400i or 400S for the longest time, but it seems like the Sundaras are worth the extra dough for many people, and I hear a lot that the Sundaras are pretty much the best headphones you can get for under $500.

Owners of the Sundaras, do you guys think it's worth getting them? Is there anything else in the price range you'd rather get (keep in mind I already have an HD600, so I doubt I'm gonna get, say, an HD6XX anytime soon, no matter how much I'd like one).

Of course sound signature tastes and use cases vary. But, yeah, they’re pretty good

 

[cycloverid]

I'm strongly considering asking for these for Christmas, or buying them myself if no one else does (!!!). My current headphone is the Sennheiser HD600, which I love, but I'm always looking for something else to complement it. I have a Schiit Magni/Modi 2 Uber stack in terms of source and amping.

I was strongly considering the HiFiMan HE400i or 400S for the longest time, but it seems like the Sundaras are worth the extra dough for many people, and I hear a lot that the Sundaras are pretty much the best headphones you can get for under $500.

Owners of the Sundaras, do you guys think it's worth getting them? Is there anything else in the price range you'd rather get (keep in mind I already have an HD600, so I doubt I'm gonna get, say, an HD6XX anytime soon, no matter how much I'd like one).

Might be worth checking Ichos' review linked on the previous page where he compares the HE400i to the Sundara. Seems like the HE400i 2020 is a great headphone, and the Sundara is a step up from that - though starting to get into diminishing returns territory.

I personally love the Sundara, and purchased 2 other headphones more expensive to compare them against and ended up with it instead. I was expecting to spend more to upgrade from my Oppo PM-3, but am very happy with these. One caveat I'd say is expect to buy a cable replacement as the stock one is quite stiff.

All that said, the most biased place to get purchasing advice for a headphone is in the headphone's thread in here. You're likely to only get glowing reviews. Most of the online reviews are very positive for the Sundara though, but might as well keep it balanced and be sure to look there too.

 

[Edward777]

Might be worth checking Ichos' review linked on the previous page where he compares the HE400i to the Sundara. Seems like the HE400i 2020 is a great headphone, and the Sundara is a step up from that - though starting to get into diminishing returns territory.

I personally love the Sundara, and purchased 2 other headphones more expensive to compare them against and ended up with it instead. I was expecting to spend more to upgrade from my Oppo PM-3, but am very happy with these. One caveat I'd say is expect to buy a cable replacement as the stock one is quite stiff.

All that said, the most biased place to get purchasing advice for a headphone is in the headphone's thread in here. You're likely to only get glowing reviews. Most of the online reviews are very positive for the Sundara though, but might as well keep it balanced and be sure to look there too.

Thanks for the replies, guys. And yeah, I do agree that I'm probably going to only find glowing reviews in the headphone's thread, but I figured it was worth a shot! Honestly, I probably will end up getting them at some point. My big fear is that I will buy the Sundara and then in a month or two, HiFiman will come out with some sort of replacement to the Sundara. Given how often they pump out new models, I could see something like this happening, but maybe not.

I will say, I just got some HiFiMan RE-400s for about $25 the other day, so these would actually be my SECOND HiFiMan headphones. The RE-400s are actually quite good!

 

[genck]

Thanks for the replies, guys. And yeah, I do agree that I'm probably going to only find glowing reviews in the headphone's thread, but I figured it was worth a shot! Honestly, I probably will end up getting them at some point. My big fear is that I will buy the Sundara and then in a month or two, HiFiman will come out with some sort of replacement to the Sundara. Given how often they pump out new models, I could see something like this happening, but maybe not.

I will say, I just got some HiFiMan RE-400s for about $25 the other day, so these would actually be my SECOND HiFiMan headphones. The RE-400s are actually quite good!

If you worry about the next best thing you'll never get the great current thing.

 

[Edward777]

If you worry about the next best thing you'll never get the great current thing.

Wise words.

 

[Jman841]

Yeah, I understand roughly how these measurements have evolved. I also know he's using the Harman 2018 target. I'm not looking for 100% accuracy, but I know the Sundara measures well out of the box despite some differences in measured results. Applying EQ isn't guaranteed to make your headphone match the Harman target more closely though - and sometimes being conservative is best in my personal experience. Like you said, I'd have a lot more confidence if the measurement was for my personal Sundara.

Just observe the differences between oratory's 2019 and 2020 EQ settings for the Sundara to see how wildly different they can be to try to match the same target. Are these the differences between two different Sundara units or simply a more accurate measurement? Looks like the explanation is the pad revision.

Applying EQ Settings will absolutely bring it closer to the target than without doing it, that makes no sense to suggest that it wouldn't unless there was a massive variance in your individual model. The differences between models of a well manufactured headphone should not be noticeable to the human ear, especially if you don't have multiple units to A/B Test next to eachother.

As for why the 2020 EQ settings are different than the 2019 EQ Settings, this is due to the late 2019 Hifiman update of construction and earpads on the Sundara. It is not the same headphone as previously and the sound signature has changed. When you update the pads and supporting systems it will change the sound signature, it is not an issue with the measurement rig but an issue with a change to the headphone itself, hence why he made an updated EQ profile for the new version of the headphone.

 

[cycloverid]

Applying EQ Settings will absolutely bring it closer to the target than without doing it, that makes no sense to suggest that it wouldn't unless there was a massive variance in your individual model. The differences between models of a well manufactured headphone should not be noticeable to the human ear, especially if you don't have multiple units to A/B Test next to eachother.

As for why the 2020 EQ settings are different than the 2019 EQ Settings, this is due to the late 2019 Hifiman update of construction and earpads on the Sundara. It is not the same headphone as previously and the sound signature has changed. When you update the pads and supporting systems it will change the sound signature, it is not an issue with the measurement rig but an issue with a change to the headphone itself, hence why he made an updated EQ profile for the new version of the headphone.

Thanks, I'll continue to A/B this against my personal EQ.

I've used oratory's settings for my PM3 and it doesn't sound quite right to me, nor does it sound like the Sundara with EQ(I understand there are acoustic differences). Obviously this is all a personal report, but something sounds slightly wrong to me about extensive EQ to me currently on both headphones. Both sound better with some EQ despite having a different stock sound and not achieving the same target. This could be all in my head though. I'm open minded and will continue to test it - it's possible that my brain just needs to adjust to this.

I'd be interested in seeing 10 or so different Sundara models (same revision) overlayed with the same measurement rig to confirm or deny any speculation.