[Ripper2860]

It's not as dramatic as you may think -- I think we are definitely in the land of 'diminishing returns'...

The Sundara is a great HP at $499 and it brings a lot to the party. Do I regret getting Ananda? No. It definitely scales up as one gets a better amp, DAC, etc. The sound profile of Sundara and Ananda are VERY similar with the differences being nuanced and not day/night. So the differences ...

IMHO, the Ananda is better at sound-stage (both up/down and side/side), definitely has more bass slam and sub-bass, has a bit more sparkle at the top-end, along with better imaging and a more open airy sound with greater space around instruments. The Sundara has a bit more texture/layers in the mids. Of course, this is my opinion, with my ears, my music (jazz and classic rock), and my gear. Ananda is certainly a better HP -- whether it is $500 better is something you will need to decide.

 

[promenix]

That is EXACTLY where I'm going. I bought these to tide me over until June 1st when the Massdrop HiFiMan Edition XX is delivered to my doorstep. At that point, I will order Ananda and compare it to Edition XX and keep the winner. Then will sell the Sundara at that point. But while I've got you in the conversation Ripper, how does the Sundara stack up with Ananda? Is Ananda a whole other level above it?

I found them really quite different from each other. In my personal book they are more of a side grade to each other, and I personally prefer the Sundara. The Ananda def has more bass, but it was not in a way that I preferred. I guess I’m more of a details and control guy rather than slam and bam.

 

[kidgafanhoto]

It's not as dramatic as you may think -- I think we are definitely in the land of 'diminishing returns'...

The Sundara is a great HP at $499 and it brings a lot to the party. Do I regret getting Ananda? No. It definitely scales up as one gets a better amp, DAC, etc. The sound profile of Sundara and Ananda are VERY similar with the differences being nuanced and not day/night. So the differences ...

IMHO, the Ananda is better at sound-stage (both up/down and side/side), definitely has more bass slam and sub-bass, has a bit more sparkle at the top-end, along with better imaging and a more open airy sound with greater space around instruments. The Sundara has a bit more texture/layers in the mids. Of course, this is my opinion, with my ears, my music (jazz and classic rock), and my gear. Ananda is certainly a better HP -- whether it is $500 better is something you will need to decide.

Hi man, tell me, why you have an HE-400S if you have the Ananda ?

 

[Ripper2860]

The HE400S was my first Hifiman HP and I have a real issue selling stuff after I buy it. Sundara was the exception because Hifiman took it in on trade towards Ananda when my right channel started cutting in/out. I take the HE400S on trips where I would dare not take the Ananda for fear of it getting lost or stolen. I use HE400S with a DAP and it also serves as HP on my 2-channel rig in another room where I do no critical listening. HE400S is not too shabby and blows away most, if not all, in its price. It ain't no Ananda or Sundara, however.

 

[Promenadeplatz]

...... The Ananda def has more bass, but it was not in a way that I preferred. I guess I’m more of a details and control guy rather than slam and bam.

Actually I never heard a bass more refined and defined than the Sundara. I am now keen to try the Ananda.

 

[Condocondor]

OK, have about 50 hours on my Sundaras and ready to report my impressions relative to the Massdrop HiFiMan HE4XX. For comparison, I'm using my iFi Audio iDSD Micro Black Label tricked out with several USB scrubbing implementations: iGalvanic3.0, iPurifier3, iDefender w/iPower, iSilencer. I tested mostly with HD YouTube vids and CD's. MQA Tidal would have been better but let my subscription go.

Ok, the first improvement that sticks out is the midrange resolution with Sundara. This is quite significant. And while I wouldn't necessarily call the HE4XX's midrange grainy, by comparison to Sundara--it is! I'd subjectively say the mid-range resolution is perhaps 20-30% better. Instruments are better separated and there is a smoothness and complete lack of graininess. The bass is perhaps 10% better resolution and of course very neutral. The top end is not at all sibilant and perhaps slightly less pronounced than HE4XX. An analogy would be like watching a video resolution of SVHS 525i vs 1080p in video.

The disappointment to me is that my expectations of even better dynamics weren't satisfied. The dynamics (slam) between HE4XX and Sundara are about equal. Both HE4XX and Sundara are comfortable but when switching sets, Sundara was quite a bit lighter and clamping force was less. So value......????? Hmmmm........ Good question? Well, HE4XX is such a phenomenal value, Sundara won't beat it for value--that's for sure. Is Sundara worth $330 more than HE4XX? Maybe......if you love vocals and acoustic. I'd feel better buying Sundara used at $400 or less. Overall Sundara represents evolution rather then revolution over HE4XX. Sundara is perhaps a HALF-LEVEL better headphone over HE4XX. It is not NEXT level better. I've listend to HiFiMan Edition X v.1 at a meet recently next to HE400i....... and Edition X was fully a NEXT LEVEL headphone. If you were hoping Sundara to be a wholly NEXT LEVEL, you'd probably better be willing to move up to Ananda and skip Sundara. But don't get me wrong Sundara is a fine offering from HiFiMan and clearly betters HE400i in almost all respects except value.

 

[Implacable]

OK, have about 50 hours on my Sundaras and ready to report my impressions relative to the Massdrop HiFiMan HE4XX. For comparison, I'm using my iFi Audio iDSD Micro Black Label tricked out with several USB scrubbing implementations: iGalvanic3.0, iPurifier3, iDefender w/iPower, iSilencer. I tested mostly with HD YouTube vids and CD's. MQA Tidal would have been better but let my subscription go.

Ok, the first improvement that sticks out is the midrange resolution with Sundara. This is quite significant. And while I wouldn't necessarily call the HE4XX's midrange grainy, by comparison to Sundara--it is! I'd subjectively say the mid-range resolution is perhaps 20-30% better. Instruments are better separated and there is a smoothness and complete lack of graininess. The bass is perhaps 10% better resolution and of course very neutral. The top end is not at all sibilant and perhaps slightly less pronounced than HE4XX. An analogy would be like watching a video resolution of SVHS 525i vs 1080p in video.

The disappointment to me is that my expectations of even better dynamics weren't satisfied. The dynamics (slam) between HE4XX and Sundara are about equal. Both HE4XX and Sundara are comfortable but when switching sets, Sundara was quite a bit lighter and clamping force was less. So value......????? Hmmmm........ Good question? Well, HE4XX is such a phenomenal value, Sundara won't beat it for value--that's for sure. Is Sundara worth $330 more than HE4XX? Maybe......if you love vocals. I'd feel better buying Sundara used at $400 or less. Overall Sundara represents evolution rather then revolution over HE4XX. Sundara is perhaps a HALF-LEVEL better headphone over HE4XX. It is not NEXT level better. I've listend to HiFiMan Edition X v.1 at a meet recently next to HE400i....... and Edition X was fully a NEXT LEVEL headphone. If you were hoping Sundara to be a wholly NEXT LEVEL, you'd probably better be willing to move up to Ananda and skip Sundara. But don't get me wrong Sundara is a fine offering from HiFiMan and clearly betters HE400i in almost all respects except value.

How would you say they compare to the HE500? I got to try a pair and they were mind blowing compared to 400i.

 

[Condocondor]

How would you say they compare to the HE500? I got to try a pair and they were mind blowing compared to 400i.

Boy, I'm a new planer magnetic fanboy. I'd love to have heard the HE500 for comparison. Sorry. Let me ask you something? What are the dynamics of the HE500 vs. the HE400i?

 

[Implacable]

Boy, I'm a new planer magnetic fanboy. I'd love to have heard the HE500 for comparison. Sorry. Let me ask you something? What are the dynamics of the HE500 vs. the HE400i?

Like I said I only got to try them, so I did not have them for very long. However I can say that apart from the weight and ridiculous cable they blew the 400i out of the water. Everything was clearer, more textured, much better separation. The presentation was very speaker like, especially for a headphone. In terms of dynamics, I'd say they beat out the 400i.

I would have bought some if they were still being made, ended up with an Audeze. Very happy with it.

 

[Roll]

OK, have about 50 hours on my Sundaras and ready to report my impressions relative to the Massdrop HiFiMan HE4XX.

Thanks for this write up...
Have u try Sonarworks, the software? They have the HE4XX on their list now.

Just curious if using the software, u prefer the HE4XX to the Sundara or not

 

[Condocondor]

Like I said I only got to try them, so I did not have them for very long. However I can say that apart from the weight and ridiculous cable they blew the 400i out of the water. Everything was clearer, more textured, much better separation. The presentation was very speaker like, especially for a headphone. In terms of dynamics, I'd say they beat out the 400i.

I would have bought some if they were still being made, ended up with an Audeze. Very happy with it.

What Audeze???

 

[Implacable]

What Audeze???

LCD2C

 

[CoFire]

I have the 400i, borrowed the Sundara for a month, own the HEX V2.

4XX/400i are great for the price, talking performance/cost leaders! Especially with the current 400i pricing. I've borrowed the 4XX for a couple weeks and it's similar to the 400i. Differences IMO aren't necessarily worth quibbling over.

Sundara is a half step up from the 400i. Better soundstage, deeper bass extension, treble better controlled, soundstage a smidge to two smidges larger and imaging better. The Differences are noticeable but not a dive in the waters warm moment.

HE500 is better than both if you can get over the comfort. This is not trivial IMO. I spent much time comparing the Elex and HE500 and they are similar. The Elex is far more comfortable. The HE500 borders/flirts with harshness in the treble, while the Elex is a half step below though not losing excitement. The HE500 are impressive given the time-frame they were released and the competition at the time.

The HEX V2 is step and step with the Elex BUT with a wider yet more dispersed soundstage, better subbass, not at much weight on the attack of sound but there in quantity (it doesn't sound thin), overall a fuller sound and not ever harsh in the highs. Yes it's kinda "laid back" but doesn't lack detail and is less fatiguing top listen to. It just doesn't do anything wrong and is relaxing yet detailed. The Elex's dynamic range and attack demands more attention and can be fatiguing, though the Elex does sound thinner in the mids.

I've read the Ananda has slight less bass, more treble and a slightly smaller soundstage than the HEX V2. The comments that the Ananda is not that much of a step up from the Sundara concern me as I would say the HEX V2 is a jump in, the waters warm upgrade over the 400i (which I'll probably never sell) and Sundara AND if I had to choose between the Elex and HEX V2, sad top say, but the Elex would have top go. Both are great headphones though.

Edit: I want to add that my comparisons were done using a Grace m9XX. Sometimes one headphone plugged in at a time, sometimes side by side.

 

[Condocondor]

I've read the Ananda has slight less bass, more treble and a slightly smaller soundstage than the HEX V2. The comments that the Ananda is not that much of a step up from the Sundara concern me as I would say the HEX V2 is a jump in, the waters warm upgrade over the 400i (which I'll probably never sell) and Sundara AND if I had to choose between the Elex and HEX V2, sad top say, but the Elex would have top go. Both are great headphones though.

When I was at the Headphone meet Nov 3 the guy who let me audition his Edition X v.1 said the v.2 was not as good with a more relaxed treble. Also those that have compared the HE5 to Ananda wish they hadn't according to one review I read. The Ananda was a "more mature" offering than the HE5 could muster SQ wise...and comfort wise.

As far as the Ananda NOT being a much of a step up from Sundara, that might depend on the DAC/AMP the reviewer was using. I was listening to Edition X v.1 and HE400i out of a Yggy/Rag setup and let me tell you--it was absolutely stunning! The Edition X v.1 blew away all comers regardless of price I thought. I heard LCD-4, Utopias, Elex, Clears, just to name a few out of that rig and and the Edition X stole it for me. That sound stage and spaciousness is really addicting. The only reason I don't go straight to Ananda now and send the Sundara back is because I got in on the Massdrop Edition XX drop for $599 which won't deliver till May 31, 2019: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-edition-xx-headphones.

 

[CoFire]

When I was at the Headphone meet Nov 3 the guy who let me audition his Edition X v.1 said the v.2 was not as good with a more relaxed treble. Also those that have compared the HE5 to Ananda wish they hadn't according to one review I read. The Ananda was a "more mature" offering than the HE5 could muster SQ wise...and comfort wise.

As far as the Ananda NOT being a much of a step up from Sundara, that might depend on the DAC/AMP the reviewer was using. I was listening to Edition X v.1 and HE400i out of a Yggy/Rag setup and let me tell you--it was absolutely stunning! The Edition X v.1 blew away all comers regardless of price I thought. I heard LCD-4, Utopias, Elex, Clears, just to name a few out of that rig and and the Edition X stole it for me. That sound stage and spaciousness is really addicting. The only reason I don't go straight to Ananda now and send the Sundara back is because I got in on the Massdrop Edition XX drop for $599 which won't deliver till May 31, 2019: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-edition-xx-headphones.

Sounds like I need to get my hands on a V1! Lol. Yeah, I believe your impression. If the Hifiman XX is not neutered somehow, I really think it may be quite disruptive to the market. I've considered selling the HEX V2 and joining the drop but if the XX is not up to par, I'd be, let's say, not so happy. Given the FR plots, they look very similar, perhaps with the XX having an even tamer treble. An FR plot only goes you so much info so don't take any of this interpretation as anything other than a semi wild guess.

See this response though... hmmm..

Straight from HiFiMan...

The Edition XX that is seen on Massdrop - Rumors have spread that this is nothing but a rebadge Ananda but that could not be further from the truth. The cup shapes are similar because this design is used by many manufacturers and covers the ear easily. The Edition XX is a specific lower cost headphone made for Massdrop. The magnet structure is older material and design as is the head bank and cups. The headphones do not have the frequency extension of the Ananda or the openness and quick response. Listening to the two and you can easily hear the difference. The Edition XX is a good headphone in its price range as is the Ananda in its price range.

The next person on the list is Lovetolisten and the address has been emailed...

Todd