[mtoc]

attacking Tyll on prupose will surely gets his attention, these guys are pretty smart

edit: get

 

[imran27]

Did somebody say Sundara has better soundstage than HE-X V2? If that is really the case then I would consider selling my DT1990 for Sundara!
Been really back and forth on DT1990 <---> Sundara, hopefully they have it at CanJam SG so I can compare it to my DT1990(A)...

 

[lugnut]

attacking Tyll on prupose will surely gets his attention, these guys are pretty smart

edit: get

I seen his name mentioned, however I did not see anyone attack him, unless I missed something !

 

[zodiac1234]

It sounds like he characterizes it as somewhat an HEK jr. Also, he finds the response on the cooler side, and like people have been mentioning of the recessed mids, his EQ boosts the upper mids. He also boosted a bit of a low-end as well.

Yes, very interesting indeed.
Good to see that folks here are hearing what the experts hear and measure.

The treble seems a little rolled off at higher frequencies but very clean and neutral.
Astonishing.
The shelf-like dip that I was talking about appears to be there, but I cant see that it is in any way excessive....interesting.

 

[franz12]

Yes, very interesting indeed.
Good to see that folks here are hearing what the experts hear and measure.

The treble seems a little rolled off at higher frequencies but very clean and neutral.
Astonishing.
The shelf-like dip that I was talking about appears to be there, but I cant see that it is in any way excessive....interesting.

I guess you heard forward sounding cans like utopia and lcds. I also heard forward sounding cans like clear, aeon flow open. So it might be the case that both of us felt mids and highs are recessed compare to them. A/Bing with ether c flow, vocals on sundara are recessed by a significant margin to my ears. (ether c flow is also forward sounding compare to hd800s) Just my 2 cents.

 

[SilverEars]

I guess you heard forward sounding cans like utopia and lcds. I also heard forward sounding cans like clear, aeon flow open. So it might be the case that both of us felt mids and highs are recessed compare to them. Just my 2 cents.

I have doubt that Sundara will sound like HD800(S). I also have doubts that it will sound as spacious as HEX or HEK although Tyll does say it sounds spacious. I thought LCDs(don't know about the X series) are characterized as on the warm side with lower treble recess. Utopia does have bit of a presence in the upper-mids and higher. I thought Clear and HEK had more of a presence in the mid treble(with Clear with more upper-mid presence), more of an abrupt rise at about 9k(with HEK having more energy of the two), and below wasn't as prominant as something like HD800 or Utopia.

If you go from mid recessed to mid raised, the difference you hear would be very noticeable, and the immediate impression could be more exaggerated. Or in another perspective mid raised to not as much mids, but in the perspective is one mid raised or one mid lowered? Same goes for dark and bright.

 

[zodiac1234]

I guess you heard forward sounding cans like utopia and lcds. I also heard forward sounding cans like clear, aeon flow open. So it might be the case that both of us felt mids and highs are recessed compare to them. Just my 2 cents.

Well, I have owned many headphones and I've been doing this for a long time since I work with audio.

I own a Utopia and 2 Audeze units,
but I based my comments on what I feel is exciting, pleasurable and fun to listen to at home.

I did not find the Utopia nor any of the Audeze phones exciting or interesting.
They are FANTASTIC headphones in their own right, with superb build quality.

However they sound too tilted downwards towards lower frequencies or what many define as being
"lean" or "dark" and not neutral at all (forgive me, just my opionion).

I acquired the Utopia based on the wonderful review Tyll Hertsens did on it.
The same goes for HE1000. I was unfortunately disappointed in both cases.

Sundara has the same type of shortcomings, but I cannot be criticized easily because of the price.
It offers incredible sonic performance that is close to HE1000v2 for 1 / 7th of the price.

They are TRUELY GREAT headphones, but I prefer the realism, the big and airy soundstage, the shimmering highs and the
thunderous bass that Hifiman HPs provide (well, used to provide - imho).

I think Sundaras - just like Tyll Hertsens said - are very balanced and coherent, maybe the best pair of HPs from Hifiman yet.

They have those rare qualities that make HP listening fun.

I felt that their low frequencies were very potent and fully modulated.
Interestingly Tyll EQ's them for higher LF level.

Along with their tilted response downwards, that would make for a very very very dark sounding headphone.

I think Sundara is truly a wonderful product.

 

[franz12]

I have doubt that Sundara will sound like HD800(S). I also have doubts that it will sound as spacious as HEX or HEK although Tyll does say it sounds spacious. I thought LCDs(don't know about the X series) are characterized as on the warm side with lower treble recess. Utopia does have bit of a presence in the upper-mids and higher. I thought Clear and HEK had more of a presence in the mid treble(with Clear with more upper-mid presence), more of an abrupt rise at about 9k(with HEK having more energy of the two), and below wasn't as prominant as something like HD800 or Utopia.

If you go from mid recessed to mid raised, the difference you hear would be very noticeable, and the immediate impression could be more exaggerated. Or in another perspective mid raised to not as much mids, but in the perspective is one mid raised or one mid lowered? Same goes for dark and bright.

I can't comment on hex and hek. But sundara sounds spacious enough to my ears. Switching back and forth between ether c flow and sundara, the entire range from male to female vocals sounds recessed on sundara to my ears. But on the other hand, it may be the case that vocals on ether c flow are forward sounding than norm.

 

[zodiac1234]

About the ealier comments on Mr. Tyll Hertsens

I just read the Sundara review on Innerfidelity homepage.

Since English is not my mother-tongue, some of the things I mentioned here on the forum earlier might have been interpreted as offensive. Specially with regards to Mr Tyll Hertsens.

I assure all of you and Mr Hertsens that it was most certainly not my intention.

I have followed the wonderful work he has done since Innerfidelity started, and have been a great admirer of his relentless efforts and hard work to create a center for higher fidelity head-audo lifestyle and sciences.

I have specially enjoyed reading all the technical articles he has kindly provided for the community, and enjoyed all the informative videos he has created and shared with the rest of the world.

If my comments - which was meant as just being funny - in any way upset or offended him - please accept my apologies.

I will later try to post this under the comments section on the Sundara review page.

Best wishes: zodiac1234

 

[SilverEars]

I hope Sundara has more bass than HE560. It's sounding like it's about the same level or hopefully not less. This means it's probably not that close to HE500. At least it doesn't take as much to drive as the HE560, which is more than twice.

 

[dleblanc343]

To my ears, female or male vocals sound veil - in comparison
to the more expensive units.

Mids and even highs are recessed, very much like HE1000v2, - not upfront.

The midrange region lacks detail .
This detail helps create a well defined and clear picture of the music.
Switching to HE-6 gives you fireworks of detail and very precise picture of musicians.

Very curious to know what kind of rig you’re running. As an owner of an HE1000 v2, HE-6 and Susvara, I find your impressions to be all over the place and definitely different from my experience. If you tell me your gear maybe it would shed light on the whole affair, but for now I can’t help but scratch my head on some of your impressions and why you’ve stirred a reaction with other members aha!

The HE6 should always sound meatier, unless inadequately driven, compared to Susvara. Sounds like your high end headphones are being seriously under-driven

 

[zodiac1234]

I hope Sundara has more bass than HE560. It's sounding like it's about the same level or hopefully not less. This means it's probably not that close to HE500. At least it doesn't take as much to drive as the HE560, which is more than twice.

I think they have more bass.
I dont have HD560 on hand so i am not sure.
But Sundara has a very potent and powerful and extended low freq response - at least in my system.

 

[zodiac1234]

Very curious to know what kind of rig you’re running. As an owner of an HE1000 v2, HE-6 and Susvara, I find your impressions to be all over the place and definitely different from my experience. If you tell me your gear maybe it would shed light on the whole affair, but for now I can’t help but scratch my head on some of your impressions and why you’ve stirred a reaction with other members aha!

The HE6 should always sound meatier, unless inadequately driven, compared to Susvara. Sounds like your high end headphones are being seriously under-driven

Hi and thank you for the friendly response.
Please see my profile page for that info.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Very intersting to hear your opinion....so I am not the only one
I did feel that I preferred its sonics to both Edition X - which is way too dark for my taste, and HE1000v2, altough - in terms of low frequency response is without
equal - but sounds less balanced at higher octaves (just my opinion).

Sundara still sounds ok from a less-than-stellar-company electronics.
HE1000v2 really needs an amp in its own class to really shine.

Sundara still has that shelf-like low pass response - very much like the Audezes, which gets it to the darker side of things. Interesting to see some measurements.

I don't hear this with the HE1000v2's.
Against the Edition X, Sundara has a little more output, a little more energy on top, but just as smooth and laidback.

Any ideas?

It seems like you have The Editon X and HE 1000v2, could you please leave a few words and compare them to the Sundara.
Like a short comparison in few sound characteristics lke Sub-Bass, Bass, Mids, Heigths, Stage wideness etc.

Being in different price segments, only few would compare these directly to each other.

 

[czy6412]

Actually, I would say Sundara is more like a Susvara Jr. than HE1000, with more lower weights and dynamics.

I did a short comparison with Beyerdynamic T1 2nd and those two headphones were extremely close in terms of performance. But this is just a short impression so YMMV.