[posedown]

Did anyone compared the Sundara with the old HE-500?

 

[czy6412]

Interesting as I found Sundara has much more weight on vocal than focal clear if Sundara is driven properly. However if you really want vocal weight I would say go for something like ZMF Atticus.

BTW Magni is the type of amp that will easily kill the weight of the sound. Same goes for the $7000 Wells Audio Headtrip as well. So get an alternative amp could be another solution.

 

[yaby1979]

After spending about 10 hours with Sundara, I decided that it must go straight back.
I have no doubt that it is extremely good for its point. But after listening aeon flow open for a few months and focal clear for weeks, I happened to have a high expectation about openback headphones. I know that it is unfair to compare Sundara to much more expensive ones ($1500, $800), but they are only ones I spent substantial time with recently.

Here are some of my impressions. I drove all of them from my Hugo (original).

1. Very good build quality and comfort. Its comfort is on par with hd800s, aeon flow open. And much more comfortable than focal Clear.

2. In terms of width, its soundstage is better than focal Clear and aeon flow open. Sundara literally disappears on my head. However, in terms of depth, I think focal Clear and aeon flow open are at least on par, if not better, than Sundara. Despite this, folks who value wide soundstage/spaciousness might prefer Sundara to them.

3. Lots of air. Soft tone. smooth treble, good amount of bass, though it lacks sub-bass extension.

4. Good instrument separation, but not the best.

5. Good dynamic punch, but it does not slam as much as focal clear or aeon flow open.

6. Sundara is power hungry. In contrast, focal Clear is extremely easy to drive. aeon open flow is somewhere in the middle.

Here are deal breakers for me.

1. Vocal is too light/lacks weight (little density). Vocal is too windy. It does not deliver fuller sound like aeon open flow or focal clear. Also, vocal tonality is not as good as them. Hollowness would be a strong word to describe it, but it is there like hd800s. Thus, I felt emotional disconnection with a singer and felt a little bit flat after all. How vocal sounds is the most important factor to me, so Sundra is unsatisfactory in this regard.
2. While treble is smooth overall, there is some wonkiness. Violin in Thais Meditation/Itzhak Perlman sounds too sharp to my ears.

However, I would say Sundara would do 95% of what hd800s can do at the 1/3 price.
or Sundara would do 85% of what aeon flow open can do at the 5/8 price, or it would do 75% of what Clear can do at the 1/3 price.

So if someone asks me how to drop $600 on audio gears, I would suggest spending on Sundra ($500) and Magni ($100) without hesitation. But if someone has $1500 budget, I would suggest to buy focal Clear and drive it from your IPhone. Right out of your IPhone, Clear sounds so good.

If someone has a $1500 budget they probably aren't buying a $500 headphone. The old Apple vs Oranges. Comparing $500 headphones to $1500 headphones is a bit silly . And they are only slightly better?

 

[franz12]

If someone has a $1500 budget they probably aren't buying a $500 headphone. The old Apple vs Oranges. Comparing $500 headphones to $1500 headphones is a bit silly . And they are only slightly better?

I don't think Hugo cannot drive Sundara at least neutrally.
I can compare things with which I spent good amount of time. And Sundara is so good to warrant its comparisons with more expensive cans.
I can imagine that people who like hd800s will also like Sundara.
For me, vocal tonal balance is a deal breaker. Sundara is good, and I know that for $500, I am asking too much. But both focal Clear and aeon open flow have more organic, natural, and very life-like vocal tonal balance IMO.

To add one more thing, focal Clear and aeon flow open easily beat my closed back ether c flow, but sundara can't.

 

[czy6412]

The thing is Hugo cannot drive Sundara. Hugo is best for its DAC, but its amp section is so poor that even some lower price DAPs can surpass it. Well in reality Hugo does not have a real amp.

BTW all of the chord product I heard tend to kill the weight of the sound. As a result every Dave system sounds bad to me.

 

[franz12]

The thing is Hugo cannot drive Sundara. Hugo is best for its DAC, but its amp section is so poor that even some lower price DAPs can surpass it. Well in reality Hugo does not have a real amp.

BTW all of the chord product I heard tend to kill the weight of the sound. As a result every Dave system sounds bad to me.

haha. I don't believe that. I owned several amps. I don't pursue such obscure amp stuff.
If I have to buy more expensive amps for Sundara, I will just buy Clear and drive it from my IPhone 7 Plus with much better results.

 

[czy6412]

haha. I don't believe that. I owned several amps. I don't pursue such obscure amp stuff.
If I have to buy more expensive amps for Sundara, I will just buy Clear and drive it from my IPhone 7 Plus with much better results.

Well it's all up to perosnal taste. I never feel Hugo sound carrying weights.

BTW maybe you are confusing about vocal weight and vocal forwardness. Sundara is a little bit V-shaped and did not have the forward vocal, but that does not mean the vocal lacking weights

 

[franz12]

Well it's all up to perosnal taste. I never feel Hugo sound carrying weights.

BTW maybe you are confusing about vocal weight and vocal forwardness. Sundara is a little bit V-shaped and did not have the forward vocal, but that does not mean the vocal lacking weights

Sundara has recessed vocal. At the same time, its vocal is too windy for my taste.
I know that its vocal is not lacking if I compare Sundara to HD800S.
However, its vocal tonality/balance is not on par with aeon open flow or focal Clear.
That's my impression. As always, YMMV.

 

[czy6412]

Sundara has recessed vocal. At the same time, its vocal is too windy for my taste.
I know that its vocal is not lacking if I compare Sundara to HD800S.
However, its vocal tonality/balance is not on par with aeon open flow or focal Clear.
That's my impression. As always, YMMV.

Well if you are looking for balance then Sundara is not your type

 

[yaby1979]

Sundara has recessed vocal. At the same time, its vocal is too windy for my taste.
I know that its vocal is not lacking if I compare Sundara to HD800S.
However, its vocal tonality/balance is not on par with aeon open flow or focal Clear.
That's my impression. As always, YMMV.

Vocal is too Windy?! Some of you folks need to put the headphones down and go listen to LIVE MUSIC. Windy???? Haha is right.

 

[franz12]

Well if you are looking for balance then Sundara is not your type

I agree. I can compromise other aspects, but comfort and vocal tonal balance. Sundara does a very good job on comfort, but not much on tonal balance.

 

[czy6412]

To me Sundara has better tonal balance than most of the headphones, including the Susvara. But it has a rather fun sound signature that makes it not as balanced as some headphones like Focal Clear or AFO. However those more balanced headphones just sound boring to my taste.

Regarding the comfort, the headband is too small for my big head so I have to return the Sundara, but my head is unusually big so YMMV.

 

[franz12]

To me Sundara has better tonal balance than most of the headphones, including the Susvara. But it has a rather fun sound signature that makes it not as balanced as some headphones like Focal Clear or AFO. However those more balanced headphones just sound boring to my taste.

Regarding the comfort, the headband is too small for my big head so I have to return the Sundara, but my head is unusually big so YMMV.

I guess we listen to different kinds of music. To me, focal clear and afo sound much more fun. Those cans instantly energize me as soon as I put them on my head. I have to say that I usually listen to modern pop, female vocal, dance, edm, modern rock, usually with a lot of vocal.

 

[czy6412]

I guess we listen to different kinds of music. To me, focal clear and afo sound much more fun. Those can instantly energize me as soon as I put them on my head. I have to say that I usually listen to modern pop, female vocal, dance, edm, modern rock, usually with a lot of vocal.

That's weird. I listen to a lot of EDM but not vocals. EDM should sound great on Sundara.

 

[franz12]

That's weird. I listen to a lot of EDM but not vocals. EDM should sound great on Sundara.

Not weird. You listen EDM without vocals, and I listen to music with a lot of vocals.