[bradbort]

I just received the Sundaras yesterday and am burning them in. I”m comparing them with 400i (old style connections), and some oppo pm3.

In terms of build quality, I definitely think they are a step up from the 400i. As a side note, once my 400i’s were out of warranty, the plastic yoke on one ear cup broke. I had not abused them, it just seemed to be a defect and plastic fatigue. Super glue would not hold the break. When I contacted hifiman, I was told they no longer sold seperate headbands, and I would have to ship them — back to CHINA! — for repairs. Zikes. After some back and fourth, and the intervention of the audiophiliac, they sold me a pair of demos for about the price of the headphone repair. Hopefully they’ve expanded enough by now that they can handle minor repairs like this in the US.

At any rate, the all metal construction will clearly not break in the same way. The adjustments are stable (they don’t easily shift once you have set them). The earcups seem to be solid aluminum. The headband is very comfortable, and it looks a bit better then the 400i. I’ve been wearing them for several hours at a time with no issues.

Sound quality is very good. I’m just 24 hours into burn in, but comparing to the 400i, they have a bit more base, and the vocals are somewhat more present. Imaging and spaciousness is very good. I’m not sure how much the sound signature will change after the recommended 150 hour burn in (if at all, I”m not sure how big a believer I am in burn in), but I certainly don’t think they will get worse.

Compared to the oppo pm-3, they are just as easy to drive, and have a greater sense of imaging, as one would expect of open vs closed back cans. I use the oppo’s to wander around. The hifiman’s are just as easy to drive, but the open backed approach is not great for my morning commute!

I’ve seen some comments about sibilence. I have not heard it. I’ve also heard one person talk about a rattle with some forms of low base. I have not heard that either.

I was considering, instead of buying these, buying the new MR Speaker Aeon Flux opens. I’ve read that they do interesting things with the sound quality and have more “slam”. What dissuaded me is that most say they don’t image as well, and that is one of the things I love about hifiman. The other thing is that they cost $300 more. I also prefer headphones that don’t change the sound signature that much, even if it might be fun initially.

In terms of whether they are worth the current price difference (inventory clearing price for 400i vs current price for Sundara), I”d say for me, yes. I”m fairly confident the new can’s will be less prone to breakage, and I do think th sound quality is better...of course, one can always spend more on better sound quality, and how much it’s worth is an individual decision. I have noticed, if it matters to folks, that the new warranty is one year, while the 400i is still selling with a two year warranty if I recall correctly.

If something comes up after my 150 hour burn in, I’ll update my comments here.

 

[knowhatimean]

I just received the Sundaras yesterday and am burning them in. I”m comparing them with 400i (old style connections), and some oppo pm3.

In terms of build quality, I definitely think they are a step up from the 400i. As a side note, once my 400i’s were out of warranty, the plastic yoke on one ear cup broke. I had not abused them, it just seemed to be a defect and plastic fatigue. Super glue would not hold the break. When I contacted hifiman, I was told they no longer sold seperate headbands, and I would have to ship them — back to CHINA! — for repairs. Zikes. After some back and fourth, and the intervention of the audiophiliac, they sold me a pair of demos for about the price of the headphone repair. Hopefully they’ve expanded enough by now that they can handle minor repairs like this in the US.

At any rate, the all metal construction will clearly not break in the same way. The adjustments are stable (they don’t easily shift once you have set them). The earcups seem to be solid aluminum. The headband is very comfortable, and it looks a bit better then the 400i. I’ve been wearing them for several hours at a time with no issues.

Sound quality is very good. I’m just 24 hours into burn in, but comparing to the 400i, they have a bit more base, and the vocals are somewhat more present. Imaging and spaciousness is very good. I’m not sure how much the sound signature will change after the recommended 150 hour burn in (if at all, I”m not sure how big a believer I am in burn in), but I certainly don’t think they will get worse.

Compared to the oppo pm-3, they are just as easy to drive, and have a greater sense of imaging, as one would expect of open vs closed back cans. I use the oppo’s to wander around. The hifiman’s are just as easy to drive, but the open backed approach is not great for my morning commute!

I’ve seen some comments about sibilence. I have not heard it. I’ve also heard one person talk about a rattle with some forms of low base. I have not heard that either.

I was considering, instead of buying these, buying the new MR Speaker Aeon Flux opens. I’ve read that they do interesting things with the sound quality and have more “slam”. What dissuaded me is that most say they don’t image as well, and that is one of the things I love about hifiman. The other thing is that they cost $300 more. I also prefer headphones that don’t change the sound signature that much, even if it might be fun initially.

In terms of whether they are worth the current price difference (inventory clearing price for 400i vs current price for Sundara), I”d say for me, yes. I”m fairly confident the new can’s will be less prone to breakage, and I do think th sound quality is better...of course, one can always spend more on better sound quality, and how much it’s worth is an individual decision. I have noticed, if it matters to folks, that the new warranty is one year, while the 400i is still selling with a two year warranty if I recall correctly.

If something comes up after my 150 hour burn in, I’ll update my comments here.

He,he,he.....I'm with you on "fun" sounding headphones. i honestly don't understand that comment . It's a very rare occasion that I don't already know if the music I'm listening to was recorded "Well" enough for me to spend my time listening to it.,,,, It shouldn't have to be your playback equipment's job to make listening to it "fun" if it doesn't sound so by it's own merit. I had to get that out of the way before making any further comments .

From I've been able to read about it,the Sundara appears to have a fair amount of qualities to like about it. Well, qualities I find more preferable , such as a lower than 100dB Sensitivity rating (Not everyone is using a PC or portable player setup). I'd honestly rather go with an Audeze or Focal set of cans (I think the Hi End Focal loudspeakers sound just great; out of my price bracket & I'm still pretty happy with my Magneplanar L-spkrs) but I was pretty impressed with the sound of my HE-6s when I had them.

"Tweaked" I thought the HE-6s wiped the floor with the (not Tweaked) Sennheiser HD800 as far as "Dynamics" (& even "Real" Soundstage was concerned) . The "garage build ergonomics" & complete lack of comfort value rendered them as unusable for me. I had NO problems running them SE through any of the full sized HP amps I was using. (I guess my listening habits & choices of Source Material aren't your typical Headfier's choices.)

It looks like Hifiman has finally joined the current Century as far as making a pretty good sounding product w/o the unnecessary "Bare Bones" ergonomics. (& at a fairly "reasonable" price for those interested in "Higher End" listening experiences).(Now, that's what I'd call "Fun"; If they live up to their claims of course)

 

[bradbort]

I just received the Sundaras yesterday and am burning them in. I”m comparing them with 400i (old style connections), and some oppo pm3.

In terms of build quality, I definitely think they are a step up from the 400i. As a side note, once my 400i’s were out of warranty, the plastic yoke on one ear cup broke. I had not abused them, it just seemed to be a defect and plastic fatigue. Super glue would not hold the break. When I contacted hifiman, I was told they no longer sold seperate headbands, and I would have to ship them — back to CHINA! — for repairs. Zikes. After some back and fourth, and the intervention of the audiophiliac, they sold me a pair of demos for about the price of the headphone repair. Hopefully they’ve expanded enough by now that they can handle minor repairs like this in the US.

At any rate, the all metal construction will clearly not break in the same way. The adjustments are stable (they don’t easily shift once you have set them). The earcups seem to be solid aluminum. The headband is very comfortable, and it looks a bit better then the 400i. I’ve been wearing them for several hours at a time with no issues.

Sound quality is very good. I’m just 24 hours into burn in, but comparing to the 400i, they have a bit more base, and the vocals are somewhat more present. Imaging and spaciousness is very good. I’m not sure how much the sound signature will change after the recommended 150 hour burn in (if at all, I”m not sure how big a believer I am in burn in), but I certainly don’t think they will get worse.

Compared to the oppo pm-3, they are just as easy to drive, and have a greater sense of imaging, as one would expect of open vs closed back cans. I use the oppo’s to wander around. The hifiman’s are just as easy to drive, but the open backed approach is not great for my morning commute!

I’ve seen some comments about sibilence. I have not heard it. I’ve also heard one person talk about a rattle with some forms of low base. I have not heard that either.

I was considering, instead of buying these, buying the new MR Speaker Aeon Flux opens. I’ve read that they do interesting things with the sound quality and have more “slam”. What dissuaded me is that most say they don’t image as well, and that is one of the things I love about hifiman. The other thing is that they cost $300 more. I also prefer headphones that don’t change the sound signature that much, even if it might be fun initially.

In terms of whether they are worth the current price difference (inventory clearing price for 400i vs current price for Sundara), I”d say for me, yes. I”m fairly confident the new can’s will be less prone to breakage, and I do think th sound quality is better...of course, one can always spend more on better sound quality, and how much it’s worth is an individual decision. I have noticed, if it matters to folks, that the new warranty is one year, while the 400i is still selling with a two year warranty if I recall correctly.

If something comes up after my 150 hour burn in, I’ll update my comments here.

One update after reading the manual. While it says that they reach their best peformance after 150 hours, in the next section it says there is nothing special to do, just enjoy the headphones. In other words, after 150 hours of normal usage, they will be broken in, but they are not tell folks to run them non-stop for 150 hours. That is really nice to know!

Further update: I contacted hifiman support, and they confirmed that a one time burn in is not required. Just use them normally, and after 150 hours of use they will be officially burned in.

Also, I asked what the difference was between the 400i and the Sundara. This is what they replied:

“Slightly more boosted in the bass, a touch V shaped, hard fast snappy bass, the treble is more refined and less edgy.”

 

[Cloud6]

So how similar to the HE560's do they sound?

 

[Beagle]

+1

 

[Vatnos]

Thanks, well, the HE-560 is off my list. I'm more treble sensitive than most. Senn HD650 is more how I like treble (ducks under desk) I hear no "veil" (runs out of room to avoid shoes thrown).

I'm the same way.

Because of that I've been eyeing the HEX the most, but the Sundara throws an interesting wrench into things. That's a comparison I haven't seen yet. Some people are saying the Sundara's better than the 560. If so, then that vs the HEX becomes something to think about, considering it's half the price. On the other hand, it's HiFiMan, so expect a V2 fixing the first round of problems in six months. On the other other hand, I've seen used HEX V1s get pretty low down there in price.

 

[Mark Up]

Some people are saying the Sundara's better than the 560. If so, then that vs the HEX becomes something to think about.

I have to say the Sundara being lighter than the rest, also having a round headband vs square means it may beat them in comfort. I'd hope it would fit their all pleather version of their pads. Even though the latest revision of Sundara pads have better fabric, I like all pleather when possible for best bass, though occasionally it messes with the sound. I find them easier to clean. That said, what I'm hearing is that it has slightly smoother highs than the HE-400i which I found just slightly too bright, and lacking bass, which these have more of. So the only area I really wonder about is sub bass extension, since we haven't seen graphs and the HE-560, with all its faults, has the best bass of any HiFiMan Planar. The HEX2 I tried was amazing. Quite large however comfortable. Perfect smooth highs, full mids, great details, nice mid bass punch, but rolled off way too early in the subs. If the Sundara is the same, or only slightly brighter in their treble, similar in mids and mid bass, and more extended in the subs (with more quantity) then we are talking about the perfect planar, or at least the best under $600, with its only real rival being the Audeze LCD-2C, though I've never been impressed with the sub bass quantity of the LCD (any model)/ The $699 Mr Speakers AEON Open vs. the Sundara? Now we're talking.

 

[bradbort]

I agree. I’d love to see a comparison between the Aeon open and the Sundara. What I keep reading about the Aeon is its fun, and has a lot of slam, but has a smaller sound field...more like a closed back headphone. On the other hand, they are US based, and I’m betting warranty/repair issues would be way easier to deal with, unless hifiman has upped its game on that front.

I am, however, optimistic that the headband redesign removes one issue I had with the 401i...plastic fatigue leading to a snapped u holder of an ear cup. This, combined with hifiman not being able to sell me just a replacement headband for an out of warranty set created a long path to resolving the issue.

 

[Mark Up]

What I keep reading about the Aeon is its fun, and has a lot of slam, but has a smaller sound field...more like a closed back headphone.

Yeah, in exchange for a smaller sound field, they are said to be more isolating than almost any other open can folks have heard. I find open sound to be somewhat universal, but can be subjective. The MassDrop AKG K7XX have a decent sound field and are somewhat open in that way, yet honestly I hear better stereo spread and depth on the closed Meze 99 Neo (better on that can than any that I'd heard, open or closed. Some cans, like the Foster series (Fostex, Denon, EMU) have open sound for closed backs, but some of it seems to be the distant midrange, that I'm not really into. Those Meze really have amazing dense midrange, so you get a full sound field, close up and far, not just wide and far away or in your face sounding. That makes them my favorite can for listening and they are also very non-fatiguing, with detailed but smooth highs, they like to be turned up. I have the Sony MDR-1A with Meze 99 pads ($20 from their website) which have a more "in your face" sound as sometimes you'd want that. I supposed the more in your face sound field on the AEON, coupled with what many call a laid back sound signature (ie. more bassy HD650 with extra detail) balances that off in a way.

 

[Karlmalone1]

Had a quick listen to the Sundara at a friend's house, was pretty impressed with what I heard. I would say it's not too far behind my LCD-2 for my preferences. I prefer darker headphones but the Sundara definitely didn't have any treble issues, and sibilance wasn't an issue. Bass was punchy and notably better than He-400i, and soundstage was open and expansive. On the whole I would say it did nothing wrong, and most things very well. Build quality was also 5 notches above the old He-400i.

 

[mtoc]

Tyll silence tells everything

 

[franz12]

Had a quick listen to the Sundara at a friend's house, was pretty impressed with what I heard. I would say it's not too far behind my LCD-2 for my preferences. I prefer darker headphones but the Sundara definitely didn't have any treble issues, and sibilance wasn't an issue. Bass was punchy and notably better than He-400i, and soundstage was open and expansive. On the whole I would say it did nothing wrong, and most things very well. Build quality was also 5 notches above the old He-400i.

Is it behind lcd2 anyway? If that is the case, $500 could be spent better elsewhere...

 

[phthora]

Do the Sundara have the same 2.5mm jacks with the same wiring as the 400i and 560? I'm wondering if I can use the same balanced cable for all three.

 

[Hedonism]

Is it behind lcd2 anyway? If that is the case, $500 could be spent better elsewhere...

He said it is since he prefers darker headphones. I think the inference is that sundara is brighter, not necessarily worse.

 

[Hedonism]

Tyll silence tells everything

No, have a look here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/over-ear-open-wall-fame-adjustments

On the last paragraph, he said he would do a review on LCD2C, Advanced Alpha Planar, and Sundara at the same time. The LCD2C review just came up a few days ago, and the Advanced Alpha last week or so, so I'm assuming his review on Sundara will be shortly after Canjam.