Hifiman HE6-SE
Feb 3, 2022 at 6:03 AM Post #2,671 of 3,903
So I had the ZMF Verite Closed (stabilised) for a week. Stunning cans to behold and rather expensive. Sonically, the HE6SE’s just walk away from them though which is ludicrous really. Full disclosure I much prefer my Denon D7000’s to the VC’s as well. The VC’s have great timbre and bass with say stringed instruments playing jazz but can to me often feel congested where the sound stage seems to exist on top of itself in the front centre of my head, especially when there’s layering in the music - it’s really bizarre and overwhelming. The D7000’s feel wide and spacious by comparison, and these HE6SE’s, man, I cannot say enough good things about them. With the Audeze vegan pads they’re just brilliant.

Honeycomb grills arrived today as well. Currently debating removing the material from the stock grills and gluing to the honeycomb. Anyone done this and noticed a construction of the sound stage or does the fabric do nothing negative in that regard?

70BBCE1A-70E0-460A-8F0B-9CF2C00C58E5.jpeg
 
Feb 3, 2022 at 3:45 PM Post #2,673 of 3,903
I think we need a post just for grills and mods and shops... my pair has been bouncing around in UPS trucks almost a week. Should be winging its way over the ocean in the next day or two. ebay listed the seller in NJ but it shipped from Utah. Around and around it goes, when it arrives, nobody knows!

Package status: In transit
Country: Unknown -> Unknown
Destination:

Origin:
2022-02-02 23:00 ERLANGER, KY, Arrived at the Global Shipping Center - Delivered
2022-02-02 07:30 Walton, KY, In Transit - Processing at UPS Facility
2022-02-02 00:37 Walton, KY, In Transit - Arrived at Facility
2022-02-01 22:52 Louisville, KY, In Transit - Departed from Facility
2022-02-01 05:58 Louisville, KY, In Transit - Arrived at Facility
2022-02-01 05:47 Louisville, KY, In Transit - Departed from Facility
2022-02-01 05:05 Louisville, KY, In Transit - Arrived at Facility
2022-01-31 23:33 Earth City, MO, In Transit - Departed from Facility
2022-01-31 23:13 Earth City, MO, In Transit - Arrived at Facility
2022-01-31 18:47 Kansas City, KS, In Transit - Departed from Facility
2022-01-31 16:12 Kansas City, KS, In Transit - Arrived at Facility
2022-01-31 06:13 Commerce City, CO, In Transit - Departed from Facility
2022-01-28 12:50 Commerce City, CO, In Transit - Arrived at Facility
2022-01-28 02:49 Salt Lake City, UT, In Transit - Departed from Facility
2022-01-27 20:09 Salt Lake City, UT, In Transit - Origin Scan
2022-01-27 19:10 Tracking Details Uploaded
2022-01-27 15:59 Tracking Details Uploaded
 
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Feb 3, 2022 at 7:12 PM Post #2,674 of 3,903
So I have a Jotunheim R and a special XLR adapter from Raal which allows normal headphones to plug into ribbon amps.
I was curious so I turned the volume knob to zero on the Jot, plugged my HE6SE v2 into it using the XLR adapter. I played a song and slowly turned the volume knob up, making sure nothing was going to blow up.
And... the Jotunheim R seems to power the HE6SE really well. I only have a few amps on hand to compare, but my impressions from what I have tried:
Jotunheim 1: it didn't sound bad by any means. What stuck out most was it lacked the punch/slam that makes these headphones special. People have said that just because an amp can get a headphone loud enough doesn't mean it's powering them to their full potential, and they're absolutely right.
The HSA-1b and the Jotunheim R both drive the HE6SE very well and sound very similar to my ears.
I am curious if anyone else happens to have a Jotunheim R on hand to try and how it compares to their other amps.
The two caveats to this are:
1. Loud listeners may run out of volume on the knob. I had to turn the knob to 3 o'clock on quieter recordings, which I have never done on any amp. Note that I am using -7dB software preamp for EQing.
2. You need an adapter. You could buy this one but need to ask for the Raal custom wiring https://nemal.com/products/nemal-xlr-4-pin-female-female-adapter Or try to make your own.

Edit: Okay, I'm not that crazy. I found someone who uses the Jotunheim R to drive their Abyss 1266 Phi TC https://forum.headphones.com/t/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc/3896/33
 
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Feb 4, 2022 at 2:18 AM Post #2,675 of 3,903
You can also get new v2 for $549, unless you specifically looking for v1 for some reason. But yeah, sonically they are the best kept secret of generally overpriced top tier offerings.
After double checking the invoice, mine are actually V2. I paid $489 plus state tax. The headphones and cables arrived in perfect condition. No factory box. Be sure and read the condition description in the Adorama listing. Some are described as seriously cosmetically or otherwise flawed, so watch out there.
 
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Feb 4, 2022 at 3:14 AM Post #2,676 of 3,903
So I have a Jotunheim R and a special XLR adapter from Raal which allows normal headphones to plug into ribbon amps.
I was curious so I turned the volume knob to zero on the Jot, plugged my HE6SE v2 into it using the XLR adapter. I played a song and slowly turned the volume knob up, making sure nothing was going to blow up.
And... the Jotunheim R seems to power the HE6SE really well. I only have a few amps on hand to compare, but my impressions from what I have tried:
Jotunheim 1: it didn't sound bad by any means. What stuck out most was it lacked the punch/slam that makes these headphones special. People have said that just because an amp can get a headphone loud enough doesn't mean it's powering them to their full potential, and they're absolutely right.
The HSA-1b and the Jotunheim R both drive the HE6SE very well and sound very similar to my ears.
I am curious if anyone else happens to have a Jotunheim R on hand to try and how it compares to their other amps.
The two caveats to this are:
1. Loud listeners may run out of volume on the knob. I had to turn the knob to 3 o'clock on quieter recordings, which I have never done on any amp. Note that I am using -7dB software preamp for EQing.
That's cool!

Curious, what DAC was used to feed the Jotunheim-R? Also via SE/RCA or balanced/XLR? So without the -7dB software preamp/EQ, it might be enough power for "loud listeners" ?

Edit: Okay, I'm not that crazy. I found someone who uses the Jotunheim R to drive their Abyss 1266 Phi TC https://forum.headphones.com/t/abyss-ab-1266-phi-tc/3896/33
@Jon L ^ is that your set up? Abyss 1266 Phi TC powered by a Jotunheim-R?
 
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Feb 4, 2022 at 12:28 PM Post #2,677 of 3,903
That's cool!

Curious, what DAC was used to feed the Jotunheim-R? Also via SE/RCA or balanced/XLR? So without the -7dB software preamp/EQ, it might be enough power for "loud listeners" ?


@Jon L ^ is that your set up? Abyss 1266 Phi TC powered by a Jotunheim-R?
I used a Topping D90 XLR out to connect to the Jotunheim R.

I guess it is Jon L's setup. I did some more searching and found him posting about it here.
Jotunheim R owners who also own low-impedance planars may want to try Jot R via 4-pin female XLR adapter (with Raal pinout).
Abyss 1266 Phi TC is sounding GREAT from Jot R, which is Jotunheim reworked to deal with Raal's extremely low impedance and need for high current delivery, so perhaps low impedance planars that thrive on current do well here. :) *Make sure to turn off baffle step correction.

0408201821 by drjlo2, on Flickr
 
Feb 4, 2022 at 3:47 PM Post #2,678 of 3,903
So I was so happy with how the Ori pads were making all my HiFiMAN cans sounding (and this is with borderline-obsessive pad rolling) and I did a crazy thing and ended up acquiring the entire Ori line. Here are some freeform impressions:

Ori Solid Lambskin
Look and Feel: Luxurious and soft lambskin.
Bass: The absolute king. Largest amount of bass, quality beyond reproach, speed is out of this world considering the size. Kicks like a jackhammer.
Midrange: Full and warm, bordering on honky/resonant. Audeze-like.
Treble: Present and energetic lower treble, and a very even upper treble. "S" sounds can veer into "SHH" territory. Can get slightly fatiguing at higher volumes, which might happen if you are really into the bass.
Overall: A hard-kicking, intense listen.

Ori Perforated Lambskin
Look and Feel: Just like the lambskin, just perforated. Perhaps a little breathier.
Bass: A definite step down in quantity, as expected with perforations. Still reasonable in quality. Fast, but does not kick very hard.
Midrange: Full and warm, without the slight honkiness.
Treble: Even sounding, not too bright. Has the same amount of upper treble as the solid pads, but the lower treble is the same amount.
Overall: an easy listen with a slightly eased off bass and treble - has none of the strengths of any of the other pads, but none of the weaknesses either.

Ori Suede
Look and Feel: Plush and soft synthetic microfiber pads.
Bass: Probably second to the solid lambskin pads, but a marked step down. Great kick, quality, and quantity.
Midrange: A clean, uncluttered, and present midrange.
Treble: The suede seems to increase the upper treble relative to the other pads, at the same time hollowing out the lower treble - a noted lack of consonance in vocals, while cymbals can be intense, and "S" sounds can be stabby.
Overall: Bright, hollow-ish sounding, with a decent kick.

Ori Hybrid
Look and Feel: Identical to the solid lambskin on the inside and outside, identical to the suede against the face.
Bass: Not quite as kick or slam as the suede, but definitely more present than the perforated lambskin. Very even in slam, quality, and quantity.
Midrange: Similar to the suede on this front, the midrange is even and clean.
Treble: Incredibly even, no consonance or splash, but somewhat bright overall. The treble level may be what is detracting from the perceived bass kick.

Ori Cowhide
Look and Feel: The stiffest pads I've ever felt - closest analog is to the Dan Clark Audio pads, but even stiffer. God, I hope these break in. Perhaps not as deep as the others.
Bass: Extends all the way down, lithe, perhaps a little lower in quantity than the other pads, absolutely even.
Midrange: Warm, even, detailed, present, large.
Treble: Are you completely allergic to harshness or sibilance of any sort? These are the pads for you. Perhaps the most even treble I've ever heard in a pad. The overall is likely lowered, perhaps considerably, but the treble sits evenly with the mids and none of the detail is lost, it just doesn't jump out at you.
Overall: What a revelation - I can't believe my ears. These headphones have never sounded so even in the bass, mids, and treble, perhaps to the point of boredom. The last word in evenness or restraint. These pads could either make the HE-6SE perfect for you, or completely ruin the thing. Admittedly, the even-tempered nature of these pads may have reigned in the soundstage somewhat, or enlarged the image in such a way where the soundstage is now more filled up.

I think the dimensions of the pads are absolutely spot on for HiFiMAN cans, with added bass slam and widened soundstage. They're also so incredibly comfortable, except for the cowhide one, which feels like rocks covered in sandpaper.

But yeah. Cowhide either fixed or ruined the HE-6SE. The best way I can put it is that it calmed the headphone down - the treble intensity is gone, the penchant for midrange honk is gone, the upper midrange dip is gone, the bass is polite and even, the whole sound has a hint of warmth. I almost want to say these "muddy" the sound, except that the pads haven't failed a single "detail cue" test I've laid out for it.

For the HE-6SE, I would personally rank the pads as follows:
1. Cowhide (I can't get over how even this sounds)
2. Lambskin (steroids for the HE-6SE)
3. Hybrid (Clean)
4. Perforated lambskin (Polite with subdued top and bottom octaves)
5. Suede (A little to hard sounding in the treble, accentuated by the upper-mid hollowness)

On my OG HE-5 (I didn't bother trying the cowhide):
1. Hybrid (Cleanliness works here)
2. Suede (Similar to the hybrid, just more V-shaped)
3. Lambskin (honkiness was a detractor)
4. Perforated Lambskin (A little too polite)

I compared the lambskin Ori pads with Dekoni THX00 hybrid pads on my HE-400. the THX00 pads had massive, if a one-note, bottom with a really hazy treble presentation - this combination played to the strengths of the HE-400, which I think is the bass king. The lambskin Ori pads didn't quite have the same bass amount, but quality and speed improved more than the quantity was reduced, so that was a win. It also lifted the blanket off the treble presentation, and the honk of the pads filled in all the gaps of the FR. The HE-400 is a surprisingly competent can with these pads on.

I really hope this is the end of the line of my pad rolling, hah. I don't want to send anybody on a wild goose chase, but figured I'd provide my thoughts.

Cowhide, man. Yeah.
 
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Feb 4, 2022 at 6:36 PM Post #2,679 of 3,903
So I was so happy with how the Ori pads were making all my HiFiMAN cans sounding (and this is with borderline-obsessive pad rolling) and I did a crazy thing and ended up acquiring the entire Ori line. Here are some freeform impressions:

Ori Solid Lambskin
Look and Feel: Luxurious and soft lambskin.
Bass: The absolute king. Largest amount of bass, quality beyond reproach, speed is out of this world considering the size. Kicks like a jackhammer.
Midrange: Full and warm, bordering on honky/resonant. Audeze-like.
Treble: Present and energetic lower treble, and a very even upper treble. "S" sounds can veer into "SHH" territory. Can get slightly fatiguing at higher volumes, which might happen if you are really into the bass.
Overall: A hard-kicking, intense listen.

Ori Perforated Lambskin
Look and Feel: Just like the lambskin, just perforated. Perhaps a little breathier.
Bass: A definite step down in quantity, as expected with perforations. Still reasonable in quality. Fast, but does not kick very hard.
Midrange: Full and warm, without the slight honkiness.
Treble: Even sounding, not too bright. Has the same amount of upper treble as the solid pads, but the lower treble is the same amount.
Overall: an easy listen with a slightly eased off bass and treble - has none of the strengths of any of the other pads, but none of the weaknesses either.

Ori Suede
Look and Feel: Plush and soft synthetic microfiber pads.
Bass: Probably second to the solid lambskin pads, but a marked step down. Great kick, quality, and quantity.
Midrange: A clean, uncluttered, and present midrange.
Treble: The suede seems to increase the upper treble relative to the other pads, at the same time hollowing out the lower treble - a noted lack of consonance in vocals, while cymbals can be intense, and "S" sounds can be stabby.
Overall: Bright, hollow-ish sounding, with a decent kick.

Ori Hybrid
Look and Feel: Identical to the solid lambskin on the inside and outside, identical to the suede against the face.
Bass: Not quite as kick or slam as the suede, but definitely more present than the perforated lambskin. Very even in slam, quality, and quantity.
Midrange: Similar to the suede on this front, the midrange is even and clean.
Treble: Incredibly even, no consonance or splash, but somewhat bright overall. The treble level may be what is detracting from the perceived bass kick.

Ori Cowhide
Look and Feel: The stiffest pads I've ever felt - closest analog is to the Dan Clark Audio pads, but even stiffer. God, I hope these break in. Perhaps not as deep as the others.
Bass: Extends all the way down, lithe, perhaps a little lower in quantity than the other pads, absolutely even.
Midrange: Warm, even, detailed, present, large.
Treble: Are you completely allergic to harshness or sibilance of any sort? These are the pads for you. Perhaps the most even treble I've ever heard in a pad. The overall is likely lowered, perhaps considerably, but the treble sits evenly with the mids and none of the detail is lost, it just doesn't jump out at you.
Overall: What a revelation - I can't believe my ears. These headphones have never sounded so even in the bass, mids, and treble, perhaps to the point of boredom. The last word in evenness or restraint. These pads could either make the HE-6SE perfect for you, or completely ruin the thing. Admittedly, the even-tempered nature of these pads may have reigned in the soundstage somewhat, or enlarged the image in such a way where the soundstage is now more filled up.

I think the dimensions of the pads are absolutely spot on for HiFiMAN cans, with added bass slam and widened soundstage. They're also so incredibly comfortable, except for the cowhide one, which feels like rocks covered in sandpaper.

But yeah. Cowhide either fixed or ruined the HE-6SE. The best way I can put it is that it calmed the headphone down - the treble intensity is gone, the penchant for midrange honk is gone, the upper midrange dip is gone, the bass is polite and even, the whole sound has a hint of warmth. I almost want to say these "muddy" the sound, except that the pads haven't failed a single "detail cue" test I've laid out for it.

For the HE-6SE, I would personally rank the pads as follows:
1. Cowhide (I can't get over how even this sounds)
2. Lambskin (steroids for the HE-6SE)
3. Hybrid (Clean)
4. Perforated lambskin (Polite with subdued top and bottom octaves)
5. Suede (A little to hard sounding in the treble, accentuated by the upper-mid hollowness)

On my OG HE-5 (I didn't bother trying the cowhide):
1. Hybrid (Cleanliness works here)
2. Suede (Similar to the hybrid, just more V-shaped)
3. Lambskin (honkiness was a detractor)
4. Perforated Lambskin (A little too polite)

I compared the lambskin Ori pads with Dekoni THX00 hybrid pads on my HE-400. the THX00 pads had massive, if a one-note, bottom with a really hazy treble presentation - this combination played to the strengths of the HE-400, which I think is the bass king. The lambskin Ori pads didn't quite have the same bass amount, but quality and speed improved more than the quantity was reduced, so that was a win. It also lifted the blanket off the treble presentation, and the honk of the pads filled in all the gaps of the FR. The HE-400 is a surprisingly competent can with these pads on.

I really hope this is the end of the line of my pad rolling, hah. I don't want to send anybody on a wild goose chase, but figured I'd provide my thoughts.

Cowhide, man. Yeah.

Really interesting, I was considering Fenestrated Sheepskin according to other reviews. It could end up to be also very personal as to which pads are the best for HE6SE.
 
Feb 4, 2022 at 7:02 PM Post #2,680 of 3,903
Really interesting, I was considering Fenestrated Sheepskin according to other reviews. It could end up to be also very personal as to which pads are the best for HE6SE.
Very personal indeed. I bought those velour pads from AliExpress recommended here and they were among my least favourite.

The actual depth of the pad makes a huge difference too. The Dekoni ones are fairly shallow, similar to stock pads. The Ori pads are very deep. That's a significant distinction.
 
Feb 5, 2022 at 6:16 AM Post #2,681 of 3,903
Ori Cowhide
Look and Feel: The stiffest pads I've ever felt - closest analog is to the Dan Clark Audio pads, but even stiffer. God, I hope these break in. Perhaps not as deep as the others.
Bass: Extends all the way down, lithe, perhaps a little lower in quantity than the other pads, absolutely even.
Midrange: Warm, even, detailed, present, large.
Treble: Are you completely allergic to harshness or sibilance of any sort? These are the pads for you. Perhaps the most even treble I've ever heard in a pad. The overall is likely lowered, perhaps considerably, but the treble sits evenly with the mids and none of the detail is lost, it just doesn't jump out at you.
Overall: What a revelation - I can't believe my ears. These headphones have never sounded so even in the bass, mids, and treble, perhaps to the point of boredom. The last word in evenness or restraint. These pads could either make the HE-6SE perfect for you, or completely ruin the thing. Admittedly, the even-tempered nature of these pads may have reigned in the soundstage somewhat, or enlarged the image in such a way where the soundstage is now more filled up.

I think the dimensions of the pads are absolutely spot on for HiFiMAN cans, with added bass slam and widened soundstage. They're also so incredibly comfortable, except for the cowhide one, which feels like rocks covered in sandpaper.

But yeah. Cowhide either fixed or ruined the HE-6SE. The best way I can put it is that it calmed the headphone down - the treble intensity is gone, the penchant for midrange honk is gone, the upper midrange dip is gone, the bass is polite and even, the whole sound has a hint of warmth. I almost want to say these "muddy" the sound, except that the pads haven't failed a single "detail cue" test I've laid out for it.

This is how I feel about the Audeze Vegans. It's just a revelation for me personally, and it has calmed down the stabby 3-5k region to which I am sensitive, filled in the 1.5KHz dip a little and increased the sub basss response. Unlike those cowhides, the vegan protein also feels cool and soft against my face parts. Best pads I have felt and heard by a good margin. Have you tried the Vegans? Sounds like they are very similar to the Ori cowhidesw without the downside.
 
Feb 5, 2022 at 8:23 AM Post #2,682 of 3,903
This is how I feel about the Audeze Vegans. It's just a revelation for me personally, and it has calmed down the stabby 3-5k region to which I am sensitive, filled in the 1.5KHz dip a little and increased the sub basss response. Unlike those cowhides, the vegan protein also feels cool and soft against my face parts. Best pads I have felt and heard by a good margin. Have you tried the Vegans? Sounds like they are very similar to the Ori cowhidesw without the downside.
I have not, they seem very large (6mm larger in diameter) and aren't they discontinued?
 
Feb 5, 2022 at 12:19 PM Post #2,683 of 3,903
Unlike those cowhides, the vegan protein also feels cool and soft against my face parts.
Wait, are the pads that you are using microsuede velour (the old Audeze vegan option that has been discontinued, the kind I have) or protein leather (the new Audeze vegan option)?
 
Feb 5, 2022 at 2:34 PM Post #2,684 of 3,903
Reading all those mod on grills or pads, I am not sure I should try them. I did not find any significant difference (if any at all) when I removed the grills. With the stock pads, I don't feel uncomfortable at all. I guess I will just keep everything as is.
 
Feb 5, 2022 at 3:19 PM Post #2,685 of 3,903
Reading all those mod on grills or pads, I am not sure I should try them. I did not find any significant difference (if any at all) when I removed the grills. With the stock pads, I don't feel uncomfortable at all. I guess I will just keep everything as is.

I agree for the grills, I didn’t find any difference myself.
For the pads it is different, velour pads and especially Dekoni elite velour pads make a big difference : better comfort but above all better medium (less distant, more presence), with Dekoni velour the HE6se has in fact more impact and is more balanced at the same time, you should really try them.
 

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