[kp297]

Unless the MDR-10 term is trademarked, how is it exploiting the law? The MDR-10 patents are expired, thus the subject matter that they claimed are in the public domain for anyone to use. Of course, that does not shield Hifiman's HE-R10 from criticisms of being a knock-off, copycat, being unoriginal, etc. Imagine the criticism when the sound quality of the HE-R10 is found out to be a step down from Sony's MDR-10. A lot of popcorn will be had then.

It's exploiting the reputation of another product from another company. For instance, if someone says in the future "The R10 is terrible", or "The R10 is great", what are they referring to? HE or MDR? If HE, then planar or dynamic?

The R10 (before Hifiman) was always classified as MDR, however it was colloquially referred to as R10. Now, Hifiman has essentially stolen this name to intentionally cause confusion. Hifiman has retroactively inserted themself in every R10 conversation, because as a follow up, we will ask HE-R10 or MDR-10. This is clever but rubs me the wrong way.

 

[omniweltall]

-

Unless the MDR-10 term is trademarked and is active, how is it exploiting the law? The MDR-10 patents are expired, thus the subject matter that they claimed are in the public domain for anyone to use.

I am more into the substance rather than the form. It is the act of cheating/copycat itself. Not whether one gets caught/sued. Something like....if the law says it is legal for me to kill other people, would I still kill other people?

Plus we also look at the historical behavior. If this is not Hifiman we're talking, I would probably give more credit. But his is known for greed and shady practices.

In this case, I can guess that Hifiman is exploiting the R-10's established reputation for his financial gain. And you can bet that he will undercut all quality to the cheapest possible, and sell at exorbitant prices especially for audiophiles. This is in stark contrast to Zach ZMF, where he fully earned and deserved Eikon/Atticus/Verite's reputation himself. You can really tell if a product is made of passion or not.

This product is not paying homage to Sony ('s design). Sony and I are competitors.

Sorry Fang. Sony probably doesn't even know you exist. Stop giving out the image that Hifiman is a comparable brand to those large companies. A lot of people actually start to buy into this BS.

 

[elvergun]

Even though Sony owns more market share, you (Sony) won't be able to sue me. I researched Sony's patents; they are expired. (Audience applaud in laughter)"

"Hey Sony, I'm openly being an A-hole and there is nothing you can do about it. How do you like them apples"?

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

For Mandarin speakers, here's the full live stream of Fang Bian's presentation:
https://taobaolive.taobao.com/room/index.htm?feedId=274521788743

43:30 - Bian says Sony R10 is not as good as people claims it to be. He prefers Bose NC700, Sony XB900N and Sony WH-1000XM3 over Sony R10.
49:30 - Bian addresses the haters, "I know people out there will accuse us of copying Sony. This product is not paying homage to Sony ('s design). Sony and I are competitors. Homage or not, all we (Hifiman and Sony) should care about is making good product. Even though Sony owns more market share, you (Sony) won't be able to sue me. I researched Sony's patents; they are expired. (Audience applaud in laughter)"

If he doesn't think that they are good why did he bother making a copy of them?

Oh right, to steal some of their fame and prestige.

 

[WadaHiFi]

for the legal reason, this is a parody, also typo, "be" supposed to be "by" but I fat-fingered

 

[Mink]

First of all, you don't have to buy it. Secondly: for how long have headphones enthusiasts asked Sony for a true R10 follow-up or some sort of a 'legacy' edition? Sony didn't comply, much to the disappointment of many head-fiers. Now here comes a Chinese company who grants those wishes and people get angry. ???

 

[WadaHiFi]

First of all, you don't have to buy it. Secondly: for how long have headphones enthusiasts asked Sony for a true R10 follow-up or some sort of a 'legacy' edition? Sony didn't comply, much to the disappointment of many head-fiers. Now here comes a Chinese company who grants those wishes and people get angry. ???

they're not even using the same driver lol, plus Bian public aid that Sony's drivers are bad so I don't think it's a follow-up, more like an intentional action to steal the original R10's legendary fame to achieve financial gains.

 

[omniweltall]

Secondly: for how long have headphones enthusiasts asked Sony for a true R10 follow-up or some sort of a 'legacy' edition? Sony didn't comply, much to the disappointment of many head-fiers.

We do. We already have the Verite, a properly done spiritual successor. No shenanigans.

Now here comes a Chinese company who grants those wishes and people get angry. ???

It's the way he does it, mate.

 

[WadaHiFi]

just be patient and wait for HE-Omega and HE-HE90 now lol

 

[kp297]

First of all, you don't have to buy it. Secondly: for how long have headphones enthusiasts asked Sony for a true R10 follow-up or some sort of a 'legacy' edition? Sony didn't comply, much to the disappointment of many head-fiers. Now here comes a Chinese company who grants those wishes and people get angry. ???

I think you're missing the point. This isn't a MySphere 3 situation. MySphere was founded by engineers who worked on amazing legacy product AKG K1000. They sought to recreate it (like an homage, funny that), but they gave it a completely new name.

Hifiman, without any of the original Sony team, decides they deserve the moniker of the original? If he didn't like R10 sound, then perhaps not name the product after something so 'flawed'. Feng says the R10 is inferior to the X1000M3 or Bose NC700? That is not how you do things if you wish to create a homage to honor the product. Creating a homage requires some humility and appreciation which Feng has not shown.

 

[freeza2001]

First of all, you don't have to buy it. Secondly: for how long have headphones enthusiasts asked Sony for a true R10 follow-up or some sort of a 'legacy' edition? Sony didn't comply, much to the disappointment of many head-fiers. Now here comes a Chinese company who grants those wishes and people get angry. ???

There is a reason no other audio company did a carbon copy of MDR R10. Its called dignity. They all believes in their own products hence they dont need to copy a 30 years old design or even the name.

People are upset is because we like Hifiman products. To see them releasing a endgame headphone that is a low quality replica of other companys product is just pathetic...

 

[Edric Li]

First of all, you don't have to buy it. Secondly: for how long have headphones enthusiasts asked Sony for a true R10 follow-up or some sort of a 'legacy' edition? Sony didn't comply, much to the disappointment of many head-fiers. Now here comes a Chinese company who grants those wishes and people get angry. ???

Ever heard of those knock-off MX500 on taobao? Nobody has a *problem* with them per se. They are knock-offs. People make them because there is a demand for them. The Hifiman R10 is a knock-off, though different from those MX500 knock-offs in 2 aspects:

1. Knock-off MX500 is actually cheaper than the real thing.
2. Bian did a live-streamed presentation on a knock-off. Don't you find it hilarious?

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

There is a reason no other audio company did a carbon copy of MDR R10. Its called dignity. They all believes in their own products hence they dont need to copy a 30 years old design or even the name.

People are upset is because we like Hifiman products. To see them releasing a endgame headphone that is a low quality replica of other companys product is just pathetic...

It's not endgame. It's just expensive.

There is a difference.

 

[KPzypher]

Completely agreed. I personally am not a fan of the Harman curve, in ear or over ear, and I think it has to do to a certain degree with their methodology. Headphones listening suffers from fatigue factors to a much higher degree than speakers. Lab listening speaks more about the wow-factor of a headphone than the enjoyment over long listening sessions.

Speaking of fatigue and long listening sessions, this is another area where I wish the community attitude would change or put more emphasis on. The "comfort factor." I get that sound is important (obviously). But too many companies disproportionately focus their efforts on the sonic performance, they neglect the comfort and proper fitment, which in my opinion has to take precedent for a gear that goes on our head and meant to be worn for an extended period. If I can't wear it for a decent amount of time due to discomfort, that destroys the 'enjoyment' part of listening.

Going back to the R-10 discussion, I think the namesake or it's physical resemblance to the Sony R-10 is nothing more than a marketing gimmick and far less important than how they're trying to arbitrarily charge customers an exorbitant amount of money ($5k) just because "they can." I thought the market would self-correct by now, but the trend is still up and up and up in flagship price for no apparent reason. Whether HFM is being a knock-off, copycat, or unoriginal is less important issue IMO.

 

[freeza2001]

It's not endgame. It's just expensive.

There is a difference.

The planer HE - r10 is the most expensive closedback headphone on the market if i am not mistaken. If the sound is representative of its asking price with better build quality. It's gonna be alot of people's endgame. It could be a huge success if Hifiman didnt choose this route.