[wuwhere]

^^ so one can't directly connect headphones to loudspeakers without using your setup above?

 

[Jian]

 
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Apart from this, the he6 is amazing. Owning both lcd2 and he6, I fell myself very satisfied.

Lucky you Jian. LCD2 look a bit bigger than HE6 from the photos I have seen. Can you confirm this? thanks

I'd say LCD2 is slightly bigger and heavier than the HE6

 

[sillysally]

 
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^^ so one can't directly connect headphones to loudspeakers without using your setup above?

I am not using my external speakers nor my speaker amp yet, I am using my Realiser and AIX's speakers for 2ch, 5.1ch, 7.1ch and then out to my amp for my HE6.

 

[MuppetFace]

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That's what I have been saying all along from my experience with the protos: that the HE-6 needs true speaker power to reach it's potential no matter what some here may say to try and lead you all to believe otherwise.
 
Furthermore, it was a bad decision by Head-Direct not to include the speaker terminal adapter and I anticipate some HE-6 returns because of this. I am frustrated enough myself to cut the TRS plug off the SE adapter just to hook up to a speaker amp now rather than wait another 10-14 days for my new one to come in since my DIY guy totally flaked out.

I don't think anyone was disagreeing that the prototype version required a speaker amp to sound remotely decent. The production version however is more efficient, and so that is where the disagreement arises. I personally think using speaker taps isn't necessary for the production model to sound exceptional. But that's just me.

Have you compared the sound using a good speaker amp and a headphone amp? Realizing amps sound different anyway, there still could be a general consensus though that seems to be an oxymoron here. :^)
 

 

I would ask the same thing, have you compared the production version using speaker terminals to out of your headphone amp Muppet? And have you heard the prototypes? My feeling is that the improvements in efficiency between the proto and the prodo versions of the HE-6 have been overblown. The protos certainly sounded "remotely decent" out of my headphone amps, as do the prodos. But remotely decent is not what I am after with $1200 headphones, I want to be wowed like I was when I plugged the protos into my speaker amp.
 
I sure hope they didn't screw up the production version so there isn't the great improvement with more power the way there was with the prototypes, or whatever tweaks they made at the last minute will be a big fail IMO. But now that some more diverse opinions are coming in it seems like I am not alone in my impressions of the production HE-6 and they do indeed scale up with more power like the protos did. Also more than one person has said that the HE-6 production version is as difficult to drive properly as the K1000.
 
Driving the prodo HE-6 properly is not the same as driving them well, or pretty good, or even remotely decently. It is not enough to get decent volume with the HE-6, you have to be able to get well past that and then come back to normal listening levels, that is what the term headroom is all about to me at least. It's too bad that Head-Direct took this approach, instead of just being up front about the differences in driving these potentially game-changing headphones properly. The HE-6 isn't difficult to drive to their best, it's just difficult to do it with most headphone amps. IMO they should have pushed the speaker tap adapter, and even a decent speaker amp for the HE-6 instead of clinging to this headphone amp myth with them. 
 
I wonder if this isn't about reducing liability and cost of production more than anything. A $100 speaker tap adapter with resistors in it will certainly reduce the number of potential customers who may blow their HE-6s requiring warranty repair or even harm their hearing, and it creates a revenue stream at $100 per as well. Not to mention selling it separately lowers the price of the headphones, but at the cost of optimizing their sound IMHO. Hopefully this attempt to cloak the true potential of the HE-6 will not backfire for HiFiMAN, I am in their corner even if it may not seem like it sometimes.

Thanks for the response. No, I haven't heard the prototype model, but I'm not so sure that's necessary when discussing the production model. You make a good point that the differences in efficiency are likely overblown. Still, there IS a difference, and as such there's going to naturally be disagreement on how much of a difference that constitutes. As I haven't heard the prototype, I can't comment on such things. I was merely pointing out the source of such disagreement.
 
I'm certainly aware that the ability to drive something doesn't equate to the ability to drive something well. The problem is, what does "driving them well" necessarily equate? Having listened to the HE-6 out of the 1/4 jack and 4pin XLR of a few integrated amps and headphone amps, I am of the opinion that they sound exceptional. Compared to my LCD-2 and O2, they hold their own (and in the case of the LCD-2 they sound better imo).
 
So yes, I feel that using the speaker taps isn't necessary to achieve an exceptional level of sound quality. Have I heard them out of speaker taps yet? No. Nor did I ever claim using speaker taps wasn't a means of achieving an even better level of sound quality. I'm sure you're absolutely right in that they sound better that way.
 
I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't be rushing out to buy new amps without having first heard what the HE-6 can do on what they already have. If people come away from this thread feeling as though the HE-6 requires a speaker amp to sound remotely good without having first heard the HE-6 on a headphone amp or the jack of an integrated amp they already own, then that's doing them a disservice.
 
While we're on the subject of speaker taps, was there any explanation given as to why the owner of the Leben CS-300XS couldn't use his headphone jack to drive the HE-6? It seems bizarre, especially given that Skylab could use the jack of his CS-300X to power both the production and the prototype versions.

 

[Skylab]

 
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I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't be rushing out to buy new amps without having first heard what the HE-6 can do on what they already have. If people come away from this thread feeling as though the HE-6 requires a speaker amp to sound remotely good without having first heard the HE-6 on a headphone amp or the jack of an integrated amp they already own, then that's doing them a disservice.
 
While we're on the subject of speaker taps, was there any explanation given as to why the owner of the Leben CS-300XS couldn't use his headphone jack to drive the HE-6? It seems bizarre, especially given that Skylab could use the jack of his CS-300X to power both the production and the prototype versions.

On the first point above, I whole-heartedly agree.  The HE-6 are a superb headphone even driven by some pretty "normal" headphone amps.  And how much power you really need is also highly dependent on what kind of listening levels you want to achieve.  I realized once again when a friend of mine was over here last week that I listen to headphones at much lower levels than many people do.  The last two people who have come over here to check out headphones listened at levels I personally couldn't stand.  So how much power you need absolutely depends on how much volume you're going to demand.
 
As for the Leben, it's headphone out uses a different tap off the output transformer than the speaker outputs, specifically optimized for headphone impedances (it's optimized for 32 ohms according to Leben, IIRC).  Given that, and given that it's the same output transformer for the speakers, it's does not make sense to me to use the speaker taps of the Leben, which give you the "wrong" impedance from the transformer, instead of the headphone out, which gives you the right impedance.
 
Note that the above discussion relates only to the Leben, and will not apply to amps that have different topologies.

 

[.Sup]

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Apart from this, the he6 is amazing. Owning both lcd2 and he6, I fell myself very satisfied.

Lucky you Jian. LCD2 look a bit bigger than HE6 from the photos I have seen. Can you confirm this? thanks

I'd say LCD2 is slightly bigger and heavier than the HE6

Awesome Jian, thanks man!
 
Btw does anyone know does Head Direct plan to offer pigtail adapters?

 

[HiFlight]

As there has been considerable interest and discussion regarding the power requirements of the HE6, with some users reporting satisfactory results with SE headphone amps while others do not, it is useful to consider the relationship of listening levels to required amplifier power. 
 
As perceived volume is a quantity that is measured in decibels (which is a logarithmic function), a brief review of the decibel may be pertinent to this discussiont:   
 
Doubling the power output of an amplifier only results in a 3db gain in volume.  3db is subjectively considered to be an increase in volume that is perceived as only *slightly greater*  than the original setting.    OTOH, doubling the volume from the original setting requires a 10X increase in amplifier power.     If  you do a bit of math, it is should readily apparent that if one is listening at fairly low volume levels, power requirements are quite modest, and even the HE6 can be happy with a headphone amplifier that is only capable of delivering a limited amout of power,  but lets say, for example, that one's preference is for a significantly higher volume, for instance doubling the original volume twice:   This would require a tenfold increase over the first doubling of volume or an increase of 100X the original power!  
 
For low efficiency phones such as the HE6, K1000, K340, etc., clearly the power requirements that will satisfy the widely different listening preferences of owners will vary by a huge amount!
 
It should come then as no surprise that a quality headphone amplifier that will comfortably deliver a pleasing string quartet at a low listening level to the HE6 users ears will certainly not be sufficient for one who wishes to listen to rock or metal at live performance levels. 
 
Given that the sensitivity and power requirements of the HE6 are similar to that of many speakers, the same consideration should likely be given to amplifier selection as would be the case with speakers of like requirements.   Ones musical genre preferences and listening level preferences are clearly of equal importance when choosing a source of amplification for the HE6. 

 

[SP Wild]

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As there has been considerable interest and discussion regarding the power requirements of the HE6, with some users reporting satisfactory results with SE headphone amps while others do not, it is useful to consider the relationship of listening levels to required amplifier power. 
 
As perceived volume is a quantity that is measured in decibels (which is a logarithmic function), a brief review of the decibel may be pertinent to this discussiont:   
 
Doubling the power output of an amplifier only results in a 3db gain in volume.  3db is subjectively considered to be an increase in volume that is perceived as only *slightly greater*  than the original setting.    OTOH, doubling the volume from the original setting requires a 10X increase in amplifier power.     If  you do a bit of math, it is should readily apparent that if one is listening at fairly low volume levels, power requirements are quite modest, and even the HE6 can be happy with a headphone amplifier that is only capable of delivering a limited amout of power,  but lets say, for example, that one's preference is for a significantly higher volume, for instance doubling the original volume twice:   This would require a tenfold increase over the first doubling of volume or an increase of 100X the original power!  
 
For low efficiency phones such as the HE6, K1000, K340, etc., clearly the power requirements that will satisfy the widely different listening preferences of owners will vary by a huge amount!
 
It should come then as no surprise that a quality headphone amplifier that will comfortably deliver a pleasing string quartet at a low listening level to the HE6 users ears will certainly not be sufficient for one who wishes to listen to rock or metal at live performance levels. 
 
Given that the sensitivity and power requirements of the HE6 are similar to that of many speakers, the same consideration should likely be given to amplifier selection as would be the case with speakers of like requirements.   Ones musical genre preferences and listening level preferences are clearly of equal importance when choosing a source of amplification for the HE6. 

Which begs the questions, how loud was the performance when it was recorded?  That should be the volume used for referencing.

 

[grokit]

I contend that the additional headroom that a decent speaker amp offers equates into more detail and transparency, and better dynamics no matter what your preferred listening level is. Something like this may be the bargain amp for the HE-6, and it's cheaper shipped than the rumored $100 speaker tap adapter with the resistors:

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-2-Channel-Bridgeable-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6/ref=lh_ni_t_

 

[bozebuttons]

I have been listening to cds using my laptop  with the pico/amp/dac(the more I listen to the pico the more I am impressed with it) in high gain driving the HE6s volume is almost all the way up.
But sound quality is damn good.I have yet to try my bigger amps/sources yet but I could be happy with this combo.The He6s only have about 4 hours on them/I did try them also with my imod/PRII combo as well
again volume was up but the HE6s did sound good.
Point is you don't have to jump to a speaker amp to get good sound out of the HE6s.

 

[grokit]

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I have been listening to cds using my laptop  with the pico/amp/dac(the more I listen to the pico the more I am impressed with it) in high gain driving the HE6s volume is almost all the way up.
But sound quality is damn good.I have yet to try my bigger amps/sources yet but I could be happy with this combo.The He6s only have about 4 hours on them/I did try them also with my imod/PRII combo as well
again volume was up but the HE6s did sound good.
Point is you don't have to jump to a speaker amp to get good sound out of the HE6s.

 
Getting good sound out of potentially great-sounding headphones is hardly an achievement IMO.

 

[zenbonsakura]

I remember reading from somewhere Krell used to demonstrate how quite their amps are with grado headphone.  If I hook up HE-6 without impedance box to baby krell like 400xi and be very careful with volume will HE-6 still blow up?
 
There are several attractive priced 300xi and 400xi in used market.  If it doesn't improve HE-6 I can still use to drive my speakers =)

 

[.Sup]

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I remember reading from somewhere Krell used to demonstrate how quite their amps are with grado headphone.  If I hook up HE-6 without impedance box to baby krell like 400xi and be very careful with volume will HE-6 still blow up?
 
There are several attractive priced 300xi and 400xi in used market.  If it doesn't improve HE-6 I can still use to drive my speakers =)

heh I'm thinking the same thing (thinking of buying Cambridge audio 350A amp)

 

[bozebuttons]

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I have been listening to cds using my laptop  with the pico/amp/dac(the more I listen to the pico the more I am impressed with it) in high gain driving the HE6s volume is almost all the way up.
But sound quality is damn good.I have yet to try my bigger amps/sources yet but I could be happy with this combo.The He6s only have about 4 hours on them/I did try them also with my imod/PRII combo as well
again volume was up but the HE6s did sound good.
Point is you don't have to jump to a speaker amp to get good sound out of the HE6s.

 
Getting good sound out of potentially great-sounding headphones is hardly an achievement IMO.

I am not saying they are sounding the best they can sound,but potential buyers can enjoy them without buying a speaker amp & optimize it later on.
 

 

[jamato8]

Some of these amps are real lowfi. If the HE-6 doesn't sound much better with a nice high quality amp then there would be something wrong with the phones but I suspect they do sound much better in the long run with a good amp so while 79 dollars might be tempting, I would want to add more dollars and get a more proven amp. If the 79 dollar amp, that most likely has about 25 dollars of parts sounds good, then great but I would find it suspect at best.