[markheadphonium]

  Ummmm.... No.  That's the point.  Very very very few (if any?) headphone amps have what it takes to properly drive the HE-6...

@potterma: plenty of headphone amps can drive the HE-6 to very loud levels. The Hifiman EF5 can do it, fer gosh sakes! I'm quoting your phrase "what it takes"-- and saying that "what it takes" must be more involved than power levels. 
 
You might have noticed a few pages back someone said that the Zana Deux can't do justice to the HE-6. The Zana Deux has probably several watts of power. Remember that most headphones only need milliwatts at normal listening levels, and my estimate is that the HE- 6 is only about 10 dB less efficient than the HE-500. A watt should make it very loud, and the EF5 demonstration proves that.
 
Mark

 

[gjc11028]

Then that takes care of that. No need for other components.

Darryl, Mark said the Ayre lineup is better than the Simgear. May need to visit.

This thread seems to focus on a few brands (Krell and Pass for example), but there is lots of gear and at some level they are different and not clearly better or worse.  I sort of like this audio federation blog post to show how at least they view some of the major brands across different attributes.  These are all good names, but they to these folks who listen to all of them a lot they all sound different in different ways.  http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/656.  I have no opinion on what they found, or how they present it, but their approach is focused more on looking for the attributes that people want in an amp, and that takes listening. You can find a good audio research amp, a good vtl amp and a good audio note amp that are all good but they sure do not sound alike. 
 
BTW i think that the top end ayre integrated is 15,000 or so 

 

[preproman]

  @potterma: plenty of headphone amps can drive the HE-6 to very loud levels. The Hifiman EF5 can do it, fer gosh sakes! I'm quoting your phrase "what it takes"-- and saying that "what it takes" must be more involved than power levels. 
 
You might have noticed a few pages back someone said that the Zana Deux can't do justice to the HE-6. The Zana Deux has probably several watts of power. Remember that most headphones only need milliwatts at normal listening levels, and my estimate is that the HE- 6 is only about 10 dB less efficient than the HE-500. A watt should make it very loud, and the EF5 demonstration proves that.
 
Mark

 
When potterma says "Very very very few (if any?) headphone amps have what it takes to properly drive the HE-6..."  He is not talking about how loud you can make them get.  You are absolutely correct most all headphones can get them to play loud.  However, playing loud is not what we're after.
 
A properly driven HE-6 is way different than a HE-6 that's playing loud.  

 

[StryGR]

Couldn't agree more. Why is so difficult one to understand the difference?

 

[markheadphonium]

   
When potterma says "Very very very few (if any?) headphone amps have what it takes to properly drive the HE-6..."  He is not talking about how loud you can make them get.  You are absolutely correct most all headphones can get them to play loud.  However, playing loud is not what we're after.
 
A properly driven HE-6 is way different than a HE-6 that's playing loud.  

That's exactly what I said. You are just repeating what I said. "What it takes" must be more involved than power levels, because so many headphone amps can make them loud, but so few do them justice.

 

[preproman]

OK lol -  my bad.

 

[musicinmymind]

Amplifier wishing to drive the HE-6 to its fullest should be able to swing at least 20V into its load,
 
 
​read from this post onwards, it is interesting 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/2565#post_10326971

 

[markheadphonium]

What kinds of negative effects do you get with an inadequate amp for the HE-6? 
 
I noticed a thin sound lacking bass with the Woo WA6SE. The EF5 sounded pretty good, however. I don't know what type 12AU7 was in the EF5 but it was not stock, and seemed a good match for the HE-6.
 
Mark

 

[sluker]

  so 35 w into 8 ohms means I have a little room left no the dial

I have a brand new Sony HAP-S1 with 40w/ch from the speaker taps, it gets really loud at 40% volume and also makes the HE-6 sound clean with a deep soundstage and no hint of shrillness in the highs. But once you hear it on my restored 1974 Sansui AU-717 with 80w/ch there is no comparison, esspecialy when it comes to the quality and quantity of bass and articulation of midrange. When plugged into the speaker taps of my restored pioneer sx-1250 the increase to 160 w/ch take it up one more level but not as big an improvement as 40 to 80 watts. 
So I conclude that more clean power is better.
All IMO.

 

[Theogenes]

  This thread seems to focus on a few brands (Krell and Pass for example), but there is lots of gear and at some level they are different and not clearly better or worse.  I sort of like this audio federation blog post to show how at least they view some of the major brands across different attributes.  These are all good names, but they to these folks who listen to all of them a lot they all sound different in different ways.  http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/656.  I have no opinion on what they found, or how they present it, but their approach is focused more on looking for the attributes that people want in an amp, and that takes listening. You can find a good audio research amp, a good vtl amp and a good audio note amp that are all good but they sure do not sound alike. 

 
Interesting link. Reminds me of the SonicFlare rating system, that resonated with me somewhat. It would be nice if there was a more codified, generally agreed-upon set of sound definitions that all sites and forums utilized... It would also be great if there was no war or hunger. Sounds like roughly equal odds IMO, unfortunately...

 

[Happy Camper]

.

 

[grizzlybeast]

Understood. Well time to scout a new receiver. Also I know it will be enjoyable with the current set up. Thanks everyone for all of the responses it really helped a ton. 

 

[gjc11028]

Interesting link. Reminds me of the SonicFlare rating system, that resonated with me somewhat. It would be nice if there was a more codified, generally agreed-upon set of sound definitions that all sites and forums utilized... It would also be great if there was no war or hunger. Sounds like roughly equal odds IMO, unfortunately...

I do not think you can codify anything, but perhaps we can agree that krell tends to be leaner than tube mcintosh? Lots of the discussion here is about what sounds good with the he-6, but not much discussion about the sonic differences of the different speaker amps people are using.

 

[potterma]

  @potterma: plenty of headphone amps can drive the HE-6 to very loud levels. The Hifiman EF5 can do it, fer gosh sakes! I'm quoting your phrase "what it takes"-- and saying that "what it takes" must be more involved than power levels. 
 
You might have noticed a few pages back someone said that the Zana Deux can't do justice to the HE-6. The Zana Deux has probably several watts of power. Remember that most headphones only need milliwatts at normal listening levels, and my estimate is that the HE- 6 is only about 10 dB less efficient than the HE-500. A watt should make it very loud, and the EF5 demonstration proves that.
 
Mark

Zana Deux (using their specs for the RS1I @ 32 ohms and compensating for a NOMINAL 50 ohm load of the HE-6) will only put out 320 mW.  Nowhere near what you need to properly drive the HE-6.  As a matter of fact, its going to be clipping a lot at even moderate listening levels.
 
EF5 might make it play loud, I don't know.  Never heard it.  Per HiFiMan's specs, it will do "15 Volts at 32 ohms."  Lets assume that's RMS volts, and that it will also do 15 volts into 50 ohms.  That will give you a maximum of about 9 W peak into a 50 ohm pair of HE-6's.  So, yea, it will play it loud.  Does it have the current reserves to handle complex passages?  I don't know, I've never heard it.
 
What I do know is that a lot of amps fall apart when they try to drive the HE-6.  Notice in my original post, I didn't say "what it takes to play loud" I said "what it takes to properly drive the HE-6".  Sure, lots of stuff can make 'em play LOUD.  Not the same as driving them properly.
 
--- And then I went back and read the discussion as it unfolded....  sorry to 

 

[markheadphonium]

  Zana Deux (using their specs for the RS1I @ 32 ohms and compensating for a NOMINAL 50 ohm load of the HE-6) will only put out 320 mW.  Nowhere near what you need to properly drive the HE-6.  As a matter of fact, its going to be clipping a lot at even moderate listening levels.
 
EF5 might make it play loud, I don't know.  Never heard it.  Per HiFiMan's specs, it will do "15 Volts at 32 ohms."  Lets assume that's RMS volts, and that it will also do 15 volts into 50 ohms.  That will give you a maximum of about 9 W peak into a 50 ohm pair of HE-6's.  So, yea, it will play it loud.  Does it have the current reserves to handle complex passages?  I don't know, I've never heard it.
 
What I do know is that a lot of amps fall apart when they try to drive the HE-6.  Notice in my original post, I didn't say "what it takes to play loud" I said "what it takes to properly drive the HE-6".  Sure, lots of stuff can make 'em play LOUD.  Not the same as driving them properly.
 
--- And then I went back and read the discussion as it unfolded....  sorry to 

Slow down. As you may have eventually noticed, we agree with each other. My first post was essentially saying, "it must take more than power to properly drive the HE-6 because there are so many powerful amps that don't sound good." You said said very few amps have "what it takes to properly drive," which was essentially the same point I was making. My last post with its list of powerful amps was intended to be a list of amps that don't properly drive the HE-6 yet are very powerful, again trying to make the point it must take more than power to properly drive the HE-6. Other factors are output impedance, damping factor, and I'm not sure what else. It would be interesting to ponder what design specs of amps may influence their performance with the HE-6.
 
The other thing may be not a design spec at all, but a synergistic match. Something like the tonal character of the amp and whether it works with the tonal character of the HE-6. 
 
I guess I was misinformed about the Zana Deux, but in any case I wasn't trying to say it works with the HE-6.