[crumpler]

Not sure if its been posted before but AVguide did a brief review on the HE-6s. Particularly interesting are the comparisons between the HE-6s, HD800s and LCD-2s.
 
Review here!

 

[.Sup]

Fantastic comparison review. So the HE6 does come with banana adaptor cable?

 

[hawkhead]

Quote:

Fantastic comparison review. So the HE6 does come with banana adaptor cable?

NO

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

^ That's eminently sensible of you. Now go post somewhere else. 

But, I like this hill, and mommy says it's safe enough to play on, without going all the way to Tide country 

.
 
 
[size=medium]

If you do have or are going to obtain an EF-5 (I have one because of my HE-5LE), it can also be used as a serious asset. If you want to buy a speaker amp that isn't integrated, or already have a nice amp, the EF-5 makes for a wonderful pre-amp when paired with a decent speaker amp. At Canjam, Fang used an EF-5 as a pre-amp, coupled with his Transcend 100 w.p.c. speaker amp.  With this combo, you have the option of using it alone, or it makes for a nice pre with a 1/4" to RCA IC and it can pull double duty.
 
davederek, you know that Fang can't stand still for one minute and had a couple of minutes to spare, and his mind works at a 1000 m.p.h. 
He knew if he made a higher current amp (hence the HE-6), it would be an improvement to the EF-5. I wish that I had his energy.
The question is, who is going to have more hair at age 50. Fang is driven, and is never satisfied with what is already out there. Ray Samuels is the same way. This hobby needs members like them, because we are the one who benefits in the long run. Sort of like the Space Program trickling down to consumer products. If it wasn't for the military and NASA, we probably never would have Velcro, polypropylene, and on more simple terms, solid state and plain good ole' plastic. 
Will it sound better than just using a Headphone amp? I have no doubt that it will. But my major point, was to try and enjoy what you have, and unless you have gobs of expendable cash, buy it 6 months down the line, so that you can genuinely appreciate the HE-6's for what they are worth.
Half the fun of this hobby, is upgraditis, and I'm pretty sure that we will never run out of mods to make our superior sounding equipment, even more superior sounding.
 
An analogy: It's sort of like that vixen that you were fortunate enough to be going out with, in 7th or 8th grade. Each summer would pass, and she would blossom even more each summer, and it was like having a whole new vixen to play with each fall. We know that we live for this stuff, and one of the benefits is, enjoying good sounding stuff that you already have, and making it sound even better. What fun would it be, if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, and always just bought the best stuff available. There's nowhere to go, but down from there.
​

[/size]

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

davederek, you know that Fang can't stand still for one minute and had a couple of minutes to spare, and his mind works at a 1000 m.p.h. 
He knew if he made a higher current amp (hence the HE-6), it would be an improvement to the EF-5. I wish that I had his energy.
The question is, who is going to have more hair at age 50.
​

sheesh, just look at our pix and the answer is obvious! 

 
 
Quote:

Fang is driven, and is never satisfied with what is already out there. Ray Samuels is the same way. This hobby needs members like them, because we are the one who benefits in the long run.​

 
try explaining that to either my wallet or my wife! 

 
Quote:

But my major point, was to try and enjoy what you have, and unless you have gobs of expendable cash, buy it 6 months down the line, so that you can genuinely appreciate the HE-6's for what they are worth.​

 
do you hear that wallet, wife, and Wayne...  

 
 
Quote:

An analogy: It's sort of like that vixen that you were fortunate enough to be going out with, in 7th or 8th grade. Each summer would pass, and she would blossom even more each summer, and it was like having a whole new vixen to play with each fall. 
​

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqDjMZKf-wg  

 

[wuwhere]

Got mine today, out of the box, they are excellent. They look prettier in person too.

 

[wuwhere]

My TTVJ portable hybrid can actually drive the HE-6 at 3 to 6 (max) o'clock.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

So if the EF-5 powers the HE-6 fine WHY are they releasing a more powerful amp stating it will be designed for the HE-6? I am assuming the previous from reading the input here from different individuals. 

I think initially because Fang wanted something with better resolution and soundstage.  He said the prototype EF-6 that we heard at RMAF was only a taste of what the final product would sound like, and in my listening at RMAF I felt that the EF-6 was a little more analytical and dry sounding although more spacious than the EF5, with about the same power.  He went over a laundry list of improvements that were being implemented in the next version of the prototype, and I don't expect it to sound the same when it's done.
 
Quote:

My TTVJ portable hybrid can actually drive the HE-6 at 3 to 6 (max) o'clock.

I still don't recommend a portable for these.  I can get decent or normal listening volumes with nice frequency response from my balanced RSA Protector at 1:30 o'clock, with clipping if I go past 1:30.  But it wont go as loud as my HDP or EF5 and I would not call it loud at all, and the bass lacks impact with the portable amp.  I would call this a normal volume, but I often will listen at levels 2-3 dB louder than this for a few songs.

 

[wuwhere]

 
Quote:

I still don't recommend a portable for these.  I can get decent or normal listening volumes with nice frequency response from my balanced RSA Protector at 1:30 o'clock, with clipping if I go past 1:30.  But it wont go as loud as my HDP or EF5 and I would not call it loud at all, and the bass lacks impact with the portable amp.  I would call this a normal volume, but I often will listen at levels 2-3 dB louder than this for a few songs.

I wouldn't either. I was just amazed that the TTVJ could even carry the HE-6's weight, albeit at its max, the bass definitely lacks and not enough volume, gain, on most recordings. I'm just using my only desktop amp/dac, the Octavart, until my two desktop amps arrive, one mosfet ss and one tubes.
 
Comparing to my Senn HD600 which has some hardness and grain on some recordings, the HE-6 is completely devoid of both.

 

[Maxvla]

Listening to my reference classical recording:

Baltimore Symphony Orchestra: David Zinman conducting Copland's Rodeo, Billy the Kid, and various works.

This is near heavenly. The tiny details the HE-6 picks up I never heard with the HD600 is surprising. The sound is like I am standing on the podium and I'm surrounded by real instruments. The textures, timbres, and dynamics are simply breathtaking. This is, with absolutely certainty, the best headphone I've ever listened to.

Where the 'near' part kicks in is in the soundstage and imaging, which I've mentioned before but I thought I would go into more detail about it. First a bit of back story, though. For the last 8 years I've been a listener of HD580 and HD600. I would characterize the soundstage and imaging of these near identical phones as medium in size, and very good, but not excellent, respectively. The soundstage reminds me of a 100 seat recital hall, and the imaging is precise in all points, but does tend to be slightly on the 2 dimensional side, meaning the sounds are lined up in a straight line across your listening vision.

The HE-6 is a larger sound stage, by a good bit, but not as large as HD800 or K1000. Generally the sound stage is excellent, but my problem with it is when it reaches towards the center it feels like it goes forever deep without an end. The sound just falls into a black hole and never comes back. To illustrate my point, I drew up a fabulous MS Paint demonstration:



This ties directly into the other part of my complaint, the imaging. When I listen to the HE-6 I hear precision placement from approximately 8 o'clock to 10:30-11 o'clock on the left side, then another void until you reach around to 1:00-1:30 o'clock down to 4 o'clock on the right. Here's another great MS Paint to demonstrate:



In listening to this orchestral CD, which I believe to be one of the best recorded, ever, I can hear the first violins directly to my left very close, with some of the second violins and the left edge of the percussion section in very well defined locations. Continuing around the arc, the rest of the second violins, the entirety of the woodwind section and most of the brass section, and the viola section is completely without form or location. The sound is just there without origin. Moving on, we find the right edge of the brass section with the trumpets, tuba, and some of the trombones fairly well defined. Directly to my right and close is the cellos, so accurate I could reach out and touch them, and behind them is the line of basses, audibly in a row, just like they are in a performance. When I listen to this CD on my HD600, I can locate each instrument without problem, but the extremely precise imaging of the HE-6 to the direct left and right is not present. The HD600 merely is good at locating everything, but not good enough to give me any of the indications that I am really standing there.

Now for the spoiler. Enter the $15 IEM from MEElectronics, the M9. This cheap thing is responsible for my not being entirely happy with the HE-6. The highs are god awful, the mids are even worse, and the bass is very much there, but not that clearly defined. It is a cheap headphone, after all. What this cheap thing does, however, that both the HD600 and HE-6 cannot even remotely come close to doing, is that it presents a truly 3D environment, immersing me in the sound as if I really were there. Precision imaging in all directions doesn't even begin to describe it. While the timbres and textures are quite bad, I can easily pick out where each instrument is around the entire arc, even picking out individual instruments in each section. Where I'm going with this is that I'm assuming a high end IEM will be able to recreate this 3D environment, but with proper detail and timbre to make believable versions of these instruments. I have never heard such a 3D environment before, from any full size headphone I've auditioned, including but not limited to: K1000, HD800, HE60, O2MK2, D7000, HE-5LE, SR-202, SR-404, K701, and the list goes on, and yes I did include the K1000. With such a roster of phones, I am inclined to believe a true 3D environment cannot be created by a full size headphone, even with angled drivers (HD800/K1000), or no ear cups (K1000). Even a good speaker setup does not put me in the music like these IEMs do. I also think these problems will not improve with speaker amp power as much as I wish they would.

Therefore, it is very likely I will be returning or selling my HE-6 to begin my IEM journey, of which I have no idea where I will start. If anyone knows of an HE-6 in IEM form please let me know! I am willing to spend as high as the UE18 which I believe is the priciest custom on the market at $1400, but also would love to find something cheaper that matches my criteria. I was happy with my HD600 rig for so long because it was so incredibly cheap for the performance. I'm not one who has to be the biggest spender to show off on the forums or at meets, so spending just to spend isn't my style.

In all other areas, I rate the HE-6 a perfect 10, but the soundstage and imaging problems kept them from being a keeper. These problems are worse and better than other full size headphones so to most people they will sound perfectly fine. My experience was unfortunately (or fortunately) ruined by a pair of disposable IEMs I bought to have on the run that I could step on by accident and not worry about replacing.

Thanks for reading.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Listening to my reference classical recording:

Baltimore Symphony Orchestra: David Zinman conducting Copland's Rodeo, Billy the Kid, and various works.

This is near heavenly. The tiny details the HE-6 picks up I never heard with the HD600 is surprising. The sound is like I am standing on the podium and I'm surrounded by real instruments. The textures, timbres, and dynamics are simply breathtaking. This is, with absolutely certainty, the best headphone I've ever listened to.

Where the 'near' part kicks in is in the soundstage and imaging, which I've mentioned before but I thought I would go into more detail about it. First a bit of back story, though. For the last 8 years I've been a listener of HD580 and HD600. I would characterize the soundstage and imaging of these near identical phones as medium in size, and very good, but not excellent, respectively. The soundstage reminds me of a 100 seat recital hall, and the imaging is precise in all points, but does tend to be slightly on the 2 dimensional side, meaning the sounds are lined up in a straight line across your listening vision.

The HE-6 is a larger sound stage, by a good bit, but not as large as HD800 or K1000. Generally the sound stage is excellent, but my problem with it is when it reaches towards the center it feels like it goes forever deep without an end. The sound just falls into a black hole and never comes back. To illustrate my point, I drew up a fabulous MS Paint demonstration:



This ties directly into the other part of my complaint, the imaging. When I listen to the HE-6 I hear precision placement from approximately 8 o'clock to 10:30-11 o'clock on the left side, then another void until you reach around to 1:00-1:30 o'clock down to 4 o'clock on the right. Here's another great MS Paint to demonstrate:



In listening to this orchestral CD, which I believe to be one of the best recorded, ever, I can hear the first violins directly to my left very close, with some of the second violins and the left edge of the percussion section in very well defined locations. Continuing around the arc, the rest of the second violins, the entirety of the woodwind section and most of the brass section, and the viola section is completely without form or location. The sound is just there without origin. Moving on, we find the right edge of the brass section with the trumpets, tuba, and some of the trombones fairly well defined. Directly to my right and close is the cellos, so accurate I could reach out and touch them, and behind them is the line of basses, audibly in a row, just like they are in a performance. When I listen to this CD on my HD600, I can locate each instrument without problem, but the extremely precise imaging of the HE-6 to the direct left and right is not present. The HD600 merely is good at locating everything, but not good enough to give me any of the indications that I am really standing there.

Now for the spoiler. Enter the $15 IEM from MEElectronics, the M9. This cheap thing is responsible for my not being entirely happy with the HE-6. The highs are god awful, the mids are even worse, and the bass is very much there, but not that clearly defined. It is a cheap headphone, after all. What this cheap thing does, however, that both the HD600 and HE-6 cannot even remotely come close to doing, is that it presents a truly 3D environment, immersing me in the sound as if I really were there. Precision imaging in all directions doesn't even begin to describe it. While the timbres and textures are quite bad, I can easily pick out where each instrument is around the entire arc, even picking out individual instruments in each section. Where I'm going with this is that I'm assuming a high end IEM will be able to recreate this 3D environment, but with proper detail and timbre to make believable versions of these instruments. I have never heard such a 3D environment before, from any full size headphone I've auditioned, including but not limited to: K1000, HD800, HE60, O2MK2, D7000, HE-5LE, SR-202, SR-404, K701, and the list goes on, and yes I did include the K1000. With such a roster of phones, I am inclined to believe a true 3D environment cannot be created by a full size headphone, even with angled drivers (HD800/K1000), or no ear cups (K1000). Even a good speaker setup does not put me in the music like these IEMs do. I also think these problems will not improve with speaker amp power as much as I wish they would.

Therefore, it is very likely I will be returning or selling my HE-6 to begin my IEM journey, of which I have no idea where I will start. If anyone knows of an HE-6 in IEM form please let me know! I am willing to spend as high as the UE18 which I believe is the priciest custom on the market at $1400, but also would love to find something cheaper that matches my criteria. I was happy with my HD600 rig for so long because it was so incredibly cheap for the performance. I'm not one who has to be the biggest spender to show off on the forums or at meets, so spending just to spend isn't my style.

In all other areas, I rate the HE-6 a perfect 10, but the soundstage and imaging problems kept them from being a keeper. These problems are worse and better than other full size headphones so to most people they will sound perfectly fine. My experience was unfortunately (or fortunately) ruined by a pair of disposable IEMs I bought to have on the run that I could step on by accident and not worry about replacing.

Thanks for reading.

I still don't hear the HE-6 soundstage problem like you do, but I understand what you are looking for.  What you need is the Westone ES5 IEM, which have the 3D imaging you want and the clarity and transparency of the HE-6.  When I wanted speakers the only ones that could image the way I thought was realistic was the Polk SDA (stereo dimensional array) speakers. 

 

[Maxvla]

Thanks for the suggestion, Larry. You were one I hoped would make a suggestion since you have heard many IEMs and also the HE-6.

 

[daveDerek]

Maxvla, nice write up. you may want to reconsider parting with the he6s though given how much you liked almost everything about them. the piece that might complete your puzzle could be the smyth realiser.  see sillyslly's posts in this thread #1058 & #1115, and follow the links in the latter post (the first link leads to an edwood post discussing using the he6 w/ the smyth system).
 
if that doesn't appeal to you and you want to pursue the iem path, there are a number of excellent offerings out there from a number of companies including, but not limited to, ultimate ears, westone, and jh audio, but the one you might want to focus on is the upcoming jh audio jh3a. with it's external amps and active cross overs it takes things to another level and will give a sense of space that other headphone systems can only dream about. you can find a number of impressions about them in both the canjam 2010 thread as well as the jh3a thread.

 

[wuwhere]

The only time I had 3D listening experience with my own system was with a full range ribbon speakers. With direct to disk jazz recordings, each player has their own space. With good orchestra recordings, the layering is there and I am aware where the different instruments are, the arrangement. I'm not sure if hps/IEMs can even get close because the room acoustics get into the mix.
 
With hps/iems, the instruments are bunch together but if you listen to big planars like Apogee Divas or Maggie 20s, the image are much larger and bigger separation.

 

[DavidMahler]

I wonder sometimes if the goal for some of headphone listening is to recreate true 3D live sound.  If it isn't (and I don't think it always is), there's a fundamental difference in perception of what makes good sound.  
 
For me, headphones are better than speakers.  I enjoy their sound more.  They sound less like real live sound, but they sound better than real live sound to me.  Maybe I'm crazy.