[potterma]

All this talk about HE-6 power requirements gave me an idea for a test that would show how much power is used in my system for a particularly demanding recording.  Using the recording listed below, at 2 minutes 25 seconds into the song, I snapped this meter image from my Yamaha MX-1000 that shows a momentary peak reading of 24.2w.





At the same time I noted a peak reading of approximately  100 dB using on my analog RadioShack Sound Level Meter.  Here's a pic of the test setup. 





As a point of reference, without changing the volume level, I played a 1 KHz / one third octive warble tone at -20dB from a Stereophile Test CD1, and recorded a level of 94 dB, so the peak when playing the song was 6 dB higher than this reference tone.

Even at these levels the sound was clean and effortless. I'm sure the HE-6 would play even louder, but I wouldn't even attempt to try anything louder for fear of damaging my hearing.  I rarely listen to music at these levels, but will occasionally, if only for brief periods.  Note, my average listening level is about 75-80 dB.

Music:

CD: Henrik Freischlader Band Live (Disc Two) Track 3 - Drum Solo by Dirk Sengotta

Keep in mind that your power meter display is calibrated for 8 ohm load and not 50 or 60 ohms of your HE-6. Your real power into the cans is more like 3 watts.

 

[Xenophon]

Indeed...methodology, I verified in an online copy of the manual and there it specifies that the values correspond to the output in one of the three load settings that can be selected (2, 4 and 8 Ohm).
 
Still...should be about 3.2 W into 50 Ohms (peak).  
 
Perhaps a stupid question, but by what factor can a typical ss amp 'overshoot' its maximal nominal output for a brief period? (supply/capacitor dependant??  Must be some margin, no?).

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Hello all I am not claiming to be a wizard
But. There is to making these headphones
Than just specs. Some amps I have tried
Seem sutible and play loud but the bass level
Is just too light
Case in pint the F3 wow what detailed amp
Really nice but the bass is just too light
Now another amp that has more power say 80 or 100 watts
Makes the bass much stronger
So there is more to it. I am guessing that transients
Are much higher for the headphone to sound balanced
Al

 

[preproman]

Keep in mind that your power meter display is calibrated for 8 ohm load and not 50 or 60 ohms of your HE-6. Your real power into the cans is more like 3 watts.

 
@ potterma
 
Ever thought about sending your F1 to Nelson to have it upgraded to a F1J?

 

[Armaegis]

   
Perhaps a stupid question, but by what factor can a typical ss amp 'overshoot' its maximal nominal output for a brief period? (supply/capacitor dependant??  Must be some margin, no?).

 
For any amp (either tube or ss or some magical mojo in between), the "max" output is determined by the voltage limit and/or the current limit.
 
Usually when you see an amp's 4 ohm rating which is not double the 8 ohm rating, then it has reached it's current limit. With a headphone load, you will almost never hit the current limit and will run into the voltage cap first.
 
You can't really overshoot these limits. You can try to push a signal through, but you'll just clip the amp.
 
On some gear you'll see a nominal and peak power rating, with the peak usually double the nominal. This is a combination of power supply, heat dissipation, factor of safety, and magical gremlins.

 

[Happy Camper]

You have any idea what an oz of magical gremlin goes for?

 

[potterma]

   
@ potterma
 
Ever thought about sending your F1 to Nelson to have it upgraded to a F1J?

Yes.  I think I'm past the period of factory conversion for the F1, though.  I've got the FET's, just need to dig in and get 'er done!

 

[potterma]

  Indeed...methodology, I verified in an online copy of the manual and there it specifies that the values correspond to the output in one of the three load settings that can be selected (2, 4 and 8 Ohm).
 
Still...should be about 3.2 W into 50 Ohms (peak).  
 
Perhaps a stupid question, but by what factor can a typical ss amp 'overshoot' its maximal nominal output for a brief period? (supply/capacitor dependant??  Must be some margin, no?).

 
The answer is "it depends".  It depends very strongly on how the amp is specified by the builder.  If the maximum voltage it can output (clipping) is, say, 20 V, then if you demand more than 20 V for your peak response, you'll drive it into clipping  and be quite unhappy with the sound.  If the amp has a published output voltage spec of 20 V into 8 ohms, but it doesn't clip until 25 V, then you can ask a little more of it and it will respond.  Of course, most amps are specified with some power into some load.  Few reveal how much current or voltage is available at clipping.  Unless they come right out and tell you what the maximum voltage is at clipping, its pretty much a guessing game.  
 

Hello all I am not claiming to be a wizard
But. There is to making these headphones
Than just specs. Some amps I have tried
Seem sutible and play loud but the bass level
Is just too light
Case in pint the F3 wow what detailed amp
Really nice but the bass is just too light
Now another amp that has more power say 80 or 100 watts
Makes the bass much stronger
So there is more to it. I am guessing that transients
Are much higher for the headphone to sound balanced
Al

Al,
I'm not surprised by your experience with the F3.  The best the F3 will do is about 3.4 W peak into 50 ohms.  That's +/-13 V at clipping.  Not the best choice for the demanding HE-6.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

The stratus sounded better. Not ideal but better. I used tracks I know to try and figure it out. But the detail with the f3 was awesome . They sounded like the hd 800 that level of detail. But that's what you get when the power is just to light. The same thing was with the hdvd800 it's really clear but no bottom. I have asked brunk to build me F5. He has that for it. And he is the man with the HE6 so I am sure I will be impressed .
al

 

[Armaegis]

You have any idea what an oz of magical gremlin goes for?

 
Well going by this (link) for worth and making an estimate of roughly 20lbs per creature, that comes to roughly 606k/oz

 

 

[brunk]

   
Well going by this (link) for worth and making an estimate of roughly 20lbs per creature, that comes to roughly 606k/oz

 

Can the gremlin atleast sing to you? 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

 

[Armaegis]

  Can the gremlin atleast sing to you? 

 
The mogwai sings. The gremlins will bite your ear off.

 

[jazzfan]

Keep in mind that your power meter display is calibrated for 8 ohm load and not 50 or 60 ohms of your HE-6. Your real power into the cans is more like 3 watts.

 
Excellent point, potterma.  You're exactly right, the 24.2w are not actual watts used by the headphones.  I did not mean to suggest the power shown on the display was the actual power used based on the HE-6 load.  My apologies to everyone for not being clear on that point.

The post merely serves as an example of the output level one could expect to hear relative to the peak meter readings that were shown from this amp.

Than being said, I thought it was interesting to note that the meter reading peaked at 24.2w, which came as a surprise to me because this value is much higher than the other ranges I've seen mentioned elsewhere this thread. 

What the number also demonstrates is the amount of power reserves available with this particular amp when driving the HE-6 to 100 dB.  The MX-1000 is, of course, overkill for this application, but if I'm driving the HE-6 "hard" I'd much rather use an amp with excess reserves vs driving an amp to clip as would be the case with the little 10wpc @ 8 ohms Trends amp which I also use quite often (at normal listening levels).

This was just an interesting exercise to quench my curiosity.  I rarely bother to look at the meters on the MX-1000 (even though they are fun to watch).

 

 

[potterma]

   
Excellent point, potterma.  You're exactly right, the 24.2w are not actual watts used by the headphones.  I did not mean to suggest the power shown on the display was the actual power used based on the HE-6 load.  My apologies to everyone for not being clear on that point.

The post merely serves as an example of the output level one could expect to hear relative to the peak meter readings that were shown from this amp.

Than being said, I thought it was interesting to note that the meter reading peaked at 24.2w, which came as a surprise to me because this value is much higher than the other ranges I've seen mentioned elsewhere this thread. 

What the number also demonstrates is the amount of power reserves available with this particular amp when driving the HE-6 to 100 dB.  The MX-1000 is, of course, overkill for this application, but if I'm driving the HE-6 "hard" I'd much rather use an amp with excess reserves vs driving an amp to clip as would be the case with the little 10wpc @ 8 ohms Trends amp which I also use quite often (at normal listening levels).

This was just an interesting exercise to quench my curiosity.  I rarely bother to look at the meters on the MX-1000 (even though they are fun to watch).

 

Meters are fun to watch  So are oscilloscopes....  Your 24.2 W into 8 ohms represents 13.9 V peak (assuming the 24.2 V is a waveform peak value and not some short term average number).  I've captured peaks as high as 20 V with my oscilloscope driving HE-6's with a Carver M-200t amplifier (125 W into 8 ohms).   Yes, they do like power!  
 
Your meter pic does a good job of emphasizing that, yes, you do want an amp with some oomph!

 

[Happy Camper]

You don't know the number of well qualified members that's called me nuts for that kind of talk.