[Cante Ista]

I never said that the headphones sound the same. I am saying that many complained about hd800 until they amped it correctly. HE6 does not sound good also until it is amped correctly. 
 
@ MacedonianHero -- my point exactly. these are all HP amps with not enough juice for HE6. 
 
@ LarsHP -- Iam aware of your feelings on the 3 cans in questions and that's all good. If you look on the HD800 thread though (which I think you visit sometimes) you will sew people who initially wrote off HD800 and now love it. 
 
Besides I never meant what I said in absolute terms. Just satiating my experience, and what I observed on the forums. Many of us like different things and hear differently as well, so it is all good. For me it is currently HE6 > HD800 > LCD3 (which I admittedly do not own but listened to on many many occasions in meets and friend's' hones at small get togethers). Different strokes ......

 

[Solude]

Here is my hesitation with the HE-6...
 
On paper they look super bright, inefficient and a step behind the HE-500 in every way.  In 'pro' reviews the subjective impression is more of the same.  HE-6 is good but the HE-500 is the better of the two is more or less parroted over and over.  Which makes sense since I believe the only real change between the two is trace material.
 
I also believe the power thing to be blown out of proportion.  It's still a headphone, meaning voltage dependent more than anything else.  As good as the First Watt amps are, they aren't more 'powerful' than top shelf headphone amps... into headphones.  Sure they swing a lot more current but the HE-6 isn't somehow immune to Ohm's law.  It won't draw current just because.  For a specific point of reference at 90dB, louder than I listen, it draws 1V and 20mA for a 20mW consumption.  That's nothing for a desktop amp.  The GS-X mk2 and B22 both throw an easy 16V and 500mA for a power output of 8000mW, as does the Mjolnir.  Even the Soloist can swing 8V and 500mA.
 
And then the real crux is even when they say the HE-500 is the better HiFiMAN they immediately say the LCD line are better, period.  Sigh.
 
I liked the HE-5LE, not as much as the LCD-2 Rev1, but the HE-6 always scared me.

 

[Hun7er]

Quote:

Has anyone here using a speaker tube amp with at least 50 wpc use the 4 ohm tap instead of the 8 ohm (HE-6's 50 ohms with 10 ohm resistors in parallel). This would increase the damping ratio, better control of the drivers by the amp, lower distortion and overall a cleaner sound from the tube amp. The con is less power to the HE-6 but this should not be a problem since there is still ample power from the amp.
 
I just changed to the 4 ohm tap on my Copland amp and it seems like the sound is slightly more relaxed and cleaner sounding on the mids.
 
Roger Modjeski, an audio vacuum tube amp designer, calls this Light Loading the vacuum tube amp.
 
"[size=x-small]Basically, light loading reduces the output current demand on the output tubes, allowing them to be more linear. It also reduces noise, raises damping factor, reduces distortion by 78% and allows for 80% more peak current when needed. The only loss is about 20% of the power rating or 1dB." Light loading means connecting the speaker on the tap that's one half its nominal impedance rating (i.e. the 4-ohm tap for 8-ohm speakers)."[/size] (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/musicreference/rm10_2.html)

 
Hello,
 
I have tried my audiomat prelude reference 30 wpc using the 4 ohm tap with my WOO WEE and Sennheiser HE60. The sound is sligtly more relaxed and tame that brightness that I didn't like. Thank you for the tweak, very appreciate.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Sorry Peter..  I love you like a brother.  But your not welcome in this thread..:wink_face:   Just kidding..  

Things have changed - The Tylle measurements out dated and are subjectively objective at best being measured on a Headroom amp.  There have been lots of discoveries, lots of people trying different amps all over the place.  I know you used yours on a Macintosh - correct.  But the First Watt amps IMO are great pairing for this headphone and there are many other amps as well that pair well.

I agree with LarsHP and Cante.  While the treble on the HE-6 may be to much for some.  The energy is far better than that of the LCDs.  

If we would go on a point system between the HE-6, HD800, LCD-3.  The HE-6 just may not win outright in one category for some.  but they sure would stack up more points than the other two when it's all said and done.  IMO....  for example and IMO...

Soundstage = HD800 -->  HE-6 --> LCD
Bass = LCD --> HE-6 --> HD800
Treble energy = HE-6 --> HD800 --> LCD
Mids = HE-6 / LCD --> HD800
Instrument separation = HE-6 / HD800 --> LCD3

Yeah, we're going to have to disagree on that one.

I had some issues with the he-6s, but overall I still liked them.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I never said that the headphones sound the same. I am saying that many complained about hd800 until they amped it correctly. HE6 does not sound good also until it is amped correctly. 

@ MacedonianHero -- my point exactly. these are all HP amps with not enough juice for HE6. 

@ LarsHP -- Iam aware of your feelings on the 3 cans in questions and that's all good. If you look on the HD800 thread though (which I think you visit sometimes) you will sew people who initially wrote off HD800 and now love it. 

Besides I never meant what I said in absolute terms. Just satiating my experience, and what I observed on the forums. Many of us like different things and hear differently as well, so it is all good. For me it is currently HE6 > HD800 > LCD3 (which I admittedly do not own but listened to on many many occasions in meets and friend's' hones at small get togethers). Different strokes ......

Sorry, to clarify those HP amps mentioned were in reference to the hd800s. For the HE-6s my favourite amp was a McIntosh speaker amp. Hope that clarifies my post from yesterday.

 

[khaine1711]

Quote:

Here is my hesitation with the HE-6...
 
On paper they look super bright, inefficient and a step behind the HE-500 in every way.  In 'pro' reviews the subjective impression is more of the same.  HE-6 is good but the HE-500 is the better of the two is more or less parroted over and over.  Which makes sense since I believe the only real change between the two is trace material.
 
I also believe the power thing to be blown out of proportion.  It's still a headphone, meaning voltage dependent more than anything else.  As good as the First Watt amps are, they aren't more 'powerful' than top shelf headphone amps... into headphones.  Sure they swing a lot more current but the HE-6 isn't somehow immune to Ohm's law.  
 
And then the real crux is even when they say the HE-500 is the better HiFiMAN they immediately say the LCD line are better, period.  Sigh.
 
I liked the HE-5LE, not as much as the LCD-2 Rev1, but the HE-6 always scared me.

Well, where do I start?
 
I had both the 500 and the 6, and as much as I wanted to save 500 bucks, I couldn't. The 6 is better than the 500 in everyway; be it plugged in the crappy output of my dac, or into a cheapo T-amp, or in some huge ass speaker amp. I could see why some would prefer the 500 signature however. Peer opinion is quite useless in this hobby. I used to remember they said the Lcd2 is the second coming of Christ; better than hd800 they said, better than Stax they said. Look at what most of those people ended up with now 

 
Yes, the power thing is blown out of proportion. The bigger amps just (incidentally) happen to deliver more quality power. It's the quality, not quantity that makes it sound better.
 
Still, if I don't listen to metals; I would end up with a hd800 or Staxes, rather than the He6. I'd still say give it a try. The he6 is really good, easily my top 5 - but don't expect too much

 

[preproman]

Quote:

Here is my hesitation with the HE-6...
 
On paper they look super bright, inefficient and a step behind the HE-500 in every way.  In 'pro' reviews the subjective impression is more of the same.  HE-6 is good but the HE-500 is the better of the two is more or less parroted over and over.  Which makes sense since I believe the only real change between the two is trace material.
 
I also believe the power thing to be blown out of proportion.  It's still a headphone, meaning voltage dependent more than anything else.  As good as the First Watt amps are, they aren't more 'powerful' than top shelf headphone amps... into headphones.  Sure they swing a lot more current but the HE-6 isn't somehow immune to Ohm's law.  It won't draw current just because.  For a specific point of reference at 90dB, louder than I listen, it draws 1V and 20mA for a 20mW consumption.  That's nothing for a desktop amp.  The GS-X mk2 and B22 both throw an easy 16V and 500mA for a power output of 8000mW, as does the Mjolnir.  Even the Soloist can swing 8V and 500mA.
 
And then the real crux is even when they say the HE-500 is the better HiFiMAN they immediately say the LCD line are better, period.  Sigh.
 
I liked the HE-5LE, not as much as the LCD-2 Rev1, but the HE-6 always scared me.

 
From what I understand - you have close to no real world experience with this headphone.  That counts for a lot or should I say - counts for nothing..  So going on what "they" say is like meh - no thanks.  
 
This headphone takes some work to get right.  Or you could just read back in this thread as see all the research that has been done by others and the success they had with what amps.  And go from there.  
 
You can crunch your numbers all you want.  However, there's nothing like real world experience.  The HE-6 a step behind the HE-500s  Ha ha ha  - I just laugh at that.  After owning both - no wait. After owning the HE-6, HE-5LE, HE-4, and the HE-500 all at the same time.  Again - real world experience.  The HE-500 is the less neutral, the less transparent, and the most colored of them all.  That's great if that's what you prefer.
 
I have no idea why you keep bringing up "the power thing"  - It's the quality of the amp.  It's not all about power - per say.  That has been stumped long time ago.  
 
So just so it's know here once and for all.  It's not all about power.  It's about the quality of the amp as well.
 
Case in point the 25 watt F1J and all the low powered First Watt amps.
 
I remember KG saying in the GS-X mkII thread when he was testing the GS-X mkII - These (HE-6) loves current.  I'm no EE or amp designer.  one thing I have noticed that's been pretty much the same is the transformers in all the speaker amps that I've tried have been bigger in size than most of these headphone amps them self.   
 
As far as the First Watt "F1J" goes.  Again - real world experience and I guess it all comes down to personal preference.  The F1J going head to head with the likes of:  
 
4 Channel B22
Mjolinr
BHA-1
GS-XmkII
Emotiva amps
Rotel mono amps
Beta 24
SimAudio integrated amps 
Pima Luna Tube amps
Audio GD Master 3
 
The F1J came out on top or a close second.
 
By the way - who is they?

  Show us these so called "pro" reviews...

 

[Frank I]

 preppie right on brother

 

[Solude]

Quote:

Well, where do I start?

 
Will reiterate... on paper  On paper the HE-500 freq resp is smoother, the square waves are cleaner, the impulse is similar and distortion is similar.  Power use?  Not even close, the HE-500 uses 1/10th the power.  On paper.
 
I wonder how much of the 'better' subjective performance is from the boost in the definition range.  The HD800 has the same thing which provides immediate wow factor that starts to bug you later on.  On my HD800 I have to zero out the 6-8Khz shelf or it gets too bright for less than ideal recordings.  HE-6 has the same thing and a spike at 10KHz.
 
At some point I should just pull the trigger but I'm still not convinced the advantages of the HE-6 aren't frequency response related.
 
As for the FOTMs... I was a long time O2 mk1 and KGSS owner when the LCD-2 came around.  It took a while to come to peace with the LCD-2 being 'better' but after a few months the O2 left.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
As for the FOTMs... I was a long time O2 mk1 and KGSS owner when the LCD-2 came around.  It took a while to come to peace with the LCD-2 being 'better' but after a few months the O2 left.

 
Where are the LCD-2s now?  I know I fail for that WOW factor they had as well.  After awhile, I was tired of listening to music in a small closet and getting punched in the gut repeatedly with that overwhelming bass.  At least now with the LCD-3 I can get some air and not feel like I'm in a closed in closet.  I still feel I'm in a small room compared to the HD800 and the HE-6 but - Oh well.

 

[preproman]

No doubt the HE-6 is a bright headphone as is the HD800 compared to dark headphones like LCDs.  I'm just not hearing the harsh treble others are saying they get.  

 

[Silent One]

I'm still trying to learn from others if the HE-6 brightness gets somewhat tamed with additional hours. Say, north of 500 hours...

 

[MacedonianHero]

I

No doubt the HE-6 is a bright headphone as is the HD800 compared to dark headphones like LCDs.  I'm just not hearing the harsh treble others are saying they get.  

I agree that the HE-6's treble isn't spiked/harsh (like the GS1000s) just that there's too much of it to be neutral to my ears. That said, on paper, the he-500s do measure a wee bit better. As far as sonics, I would say some could prefer either one.

 

[preproman]

HE-500
 
 
 
 

HE-6
 
 
 
Why is the HE-500 measured better?

 

[khaine1711]

Quote:

 
Will reiterate... on paper  On paper the HE-500 freq resp is smoother, the square waves are cleaner, the impulse is similar and distortion is similar.  Power use?  Not even close, the HE-500 uses 1/10th the power.  On paper.
 
I wonder how much of the 'better' subjective performance is from the boost in the definition range.  The HD800 has the same thing which provides immediate wow factor that starts to bug you later on.  On my HD800 I have to zero out the 6-8Khz shelf or it gets too bright for less than ideal recordings.  HE-6 has the same thing and a spike at 10KHz.
 
At some point I should just pull the trigger but I'm still not convinced the advantages of the HE-6 aren't frequency response related.
 
As for the FOTMs... I was a long time O2 mk1 and KGSS owner when the LCD-2 came around.  It took a while to come to peace with the LCD-2 being 'better' but after a few months the O2 left.

Well, as a metal-head, I absolutely have no problem with any headphones' treble 

. Be it the Dt990, or Grado 325is; I even think the Hd800 and the 6 is quite tame in that regard. I even used both of them (the senn and hifiman) with crapstatic, eard-estroying material (think Emperor/Burzum - compressed low fi black metal with crap loads of treble/static noise) and it's fine.
 
I think both of them are bright, but nothing "normal" head-fiers can't stand (e.g. Grados/Beyers). If the brightness of the hd800 bugs you, my opinion is that the He-6 brightness will bug you as well.
 
Just give it a try already. Maybe try some 845/211 SET amps while you're at it. We're all waiting for your next mega multi-way amp comparison