[LugBug1]

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Lyr + HE-6....I think it does indeed run out of dynamic peak capability despite sounding relatively good. It sounds good, sounds musical, but ultimately sounds like an HE-500

 
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LOL.
 
I'm saying compared to my power amp, it ends up lacking details even though it still sounds musical.  But I'm also saying that it's not what I originally theorized that Lyr is undetailed and that it was a performance issue rather than a power issue.  The fact that HD800 reveals Lyr to be pretty detailed after all shows that the odd missing details with HE-6 is purely a power equation after all.  It has sufficient power to keep the bass up and not sound thin, but insufficient power to handle the sustained current + the voltage swing reserves for the dynamics, ultimately smearing over detail in the process.....however if there's nothing else available to run it on, Lyr does actually sound pleasant with HE-6...it just doesn't bring it to it's strengths over cheaper models as well as more power does.

So if peeps have the Lyr or equivalent powerful headphone amp, they'd be better off sticking with the HE500's? Only asking because I'm looking at the HE6's as my poss next hp's. Approx 6 watts does seem like a lot current, plus with the tubes for the voltage swings I would have thought it would defo have enough power? Obviously there will be more refined amps out there, but for the price it still does look good.
 
IEM, I see that you now have the HD800's aswell, how do they stack up against the HE6's in your opinion when they are both sufficiently amped.(apologies if you have already covered this) I love the hifiman sound, but are the HD800's better at anything apart from soundstage? I know the HD800's have a massive fanbase and I have an idea what they may sound like based on the many threads and opinions, but there are not many peeps who also own the HE6's aswell. Would an HD800 fan be blown away by a sufficiently amped HE6 for instance? If they are similar would I be better off getting the HD800, being that they are a little more amp friendly?
 
Thanks IEM.

 

[grokit]

If its to any use to you I tried the HE-4 and HE-500 with it and it is a disappointing combination. Both sound much better with a 250mV headphone amp. Straight off the speaker taps the sound is bloaty, lacking detail, smeared, bass overpowering, the only positive thing is the sound is full but all speaker amps I have heard have fuller sound than headphone amps.

Bummer, that's what happened with the LCD2 when I tried it from the RA150's speaker taps, it didn't sound right at all.

 

[elwappo99]

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Bummer, that's what happened with the LCD2 when I tried it from the RA150's speaker taps, it didn't sound right at all.

 
 
Could be the amp? I hooked up a pair of he-400s to my emotiva and they definitely improved over the other headphone amps I had. 

 

[preproman]

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Could be the amp? I hooked up a pair of he-400s to my emotiva and they definitely improved over the other headphone amps I had. 

 
 
Same here.  I just didn't have any play on the volume knob.  So I'd rather keep them (HE-500s) on a headphone amp.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

 
So if peeps have the Lyr or equivalent powerful headphone amp, they'd be better off sticking with the HE500's? Only asking because I'm looking at the HE6's as my poss next hp's. Approx 6 watts does seem like a lot current, plus with the tubes for the voltage swings I would have thought it would defo have enough power? Obviously there will be more refined amps out there, but for the price it still does look good.
 
IEM, I see that you now have the HD800's aswell, how do they stack up against the HE6's in your opinion when they are both sufficiently amped.(apologies if you have already covered this) I love the hifiman sound, but are the HD800's better at anything apart from soundstage? I know the HD800's have a massive fanbase and I have an idea what they may sound like based on the many threads and opinions, but there are not many peeps who also own the HE6's aswell. Would an HD800 fan be blown away by a sufficiently amped HE6 for instance? If they are similar would I be better off getting the HD800, being that they are a little more amp friendly?
 
Thanks IEM.

 
 
LB1,
 
I don't know about the Lry but on my headphoneamps the HE-6s and the HE-500s sound more of the same than different.  The HE-6 scales down in SQ "IMO" on "some" headphoneamps - and this is where the HE-500 shines.  
 
As you know - the HE-6s has the ability to scale much much higher than the HE-500s on more quality powerful amps.

 

[LugBug1]

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LB1,
 
I don't know about the Lry but on my headphoneamps the HE-6s and the HE-500s sound more of the same than different.  The HE-6 scales down in SQ "IMO" on "some" headphoneamps - and this is where the HE-500 shines.  
 
As you know - the HE-6s has the ability to scale much much higher than the HE-500s on more quality powerful amps.

Thanks, yeah I'm tossed between going for the HE6 or HD800... or neither! (why can't we be content with what we've got in this hobby!

 

) I don't really want to change my amps as I'm happy with them, and so I'm just wanting to know how much better (if any) the HE6's are to the HD800's when they're speakered up!   

 

[Darkbeat]

Thanks, yeah I'm tossed between going for the HEI don't really want to change my amps as I'm happy with them, and so I'm just wanting to know how much btter (if any) the HE6's are to the HD800's when they're speakered up!   

 
Both theHE-6 and HD800s would need amp changes in your case to get the best out of them. In that case, look at the HE-6, it's cheaper in general (and speaker taps needn't be expensive) and you'd only end up missing the planar push if you went with the HD800s anyway.

Oh and you can switch your HE-500 toxic cable too.

 

[LugBug1]

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Thanks, yeah I'm tossed between going for the HEI don't really want to change my amps as I'm happy with them, and so I'm just wanting to know how much btter (if any) the HE6's are to the HD800's when they're speakered up!   

 
Both theHE-6 and HD800s would need amp changes in your case to get the best out of them. In that case, look at the HE-6, it's cheaper in general (and speaker taps needn't be expensive) and you'd only end up missing the planar push if you went with the HD800s anyway.
Oh and you can switch your HE-500 toxic cable too.

Thanks DB, would the C2 not power the HD800's? its quite a warm amp aswell.
 
Preproman, how does the HD800 compare to HE500? and then HE6? IYO, I see you have both

 

[preproman]

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Thanks DB, would the C2 not power the HD800's? its quite a warm amp aswell.
 
Preproman, how does the HD800 compare to HE500? and then HE6? IYO, I see you have both

 
 
To me.  I prefer my HD800s with "Darker Amps"  I think the HE-500s are more flexible over the HD800s. Able to pair good with more amp verity.  Even more so that the HE-6 of course.  
 
The HE-500s are like the LCD-2.2s in a since they can go with "just about" any amp you have.

 

[preproman]

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so I'm just wanting to know how much btter (if any) the HE6's are to the HD800's when they're speakered up!   

 
IMO when the HE-6 are speakered up.  They run neck -n- neck with the HD800s on its best amp (IMO they pull ahead of the HD800s).  I think the HE-6 can get to 007 levels on a quality speaker amp.
 
I have not had a chance to hear the LCD-3s yet.

 

[paradoxper]

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So if peeps have the Lyr or equivalent powerful headphone amp, they'd be better off sticking with the HE500's? Only asking because I'm looking at the HE6's as my poss next hp's. Approx 6 watts does seem like a lot current, plus with the tubes for the voltage swings I would have thought it would defo have enough power? Obviously there will be more refined amps out there, but for the price it still does look good.
 
 

The HE-6 driven by Lyr is as Prep said pretty much the HE-500. This is comparative to some speaker amps. Where the HE-6 shines to new heights,
 
The HE-6 does scale down on most headamps.

 

[Darkbeat]

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Thanks DB, would the C2 not power the HD800's? its quite a warm amp aswell.
 

No problem LB 

 I've been caught by a similar upgrade bug lately too, though I feel the cure may well involve the number 3...
 
The C2 wouldn't have any problems power-wise I'd imagine, more from a technical point of view it would be similar to driving the HE-6s on a conventional amp, ie, not nearly as good as it could/should be. If you replaced your opamps with something tube-like (Opa-Moon?) it might help, but I'd imagine you would still fall quite a bit short of the HD800s performance on a proper (and expensive) tube amp. The HD800 will feel pretty harsh otherwise, especially coming from the planars.
 
The HE-6 however, while it would also require you to change the C2, doesn't have as expensive tastes. You could get a new HE-6 and appropriate speaker/receiver setup for less than roughly as much as a new HD 800 on it's own. Throw in the money saved on cable swapping and I'd say it's the least painful choice.
 
That said, I think you (and I) probably should look at improving the source (and perhaps amp too) situation first.

 

[LugBug1]

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No problem LB 

 I've been caught by a similar upgrade bug lately too, though I feel the cure may well involve the number 3...
 
The C2 wouldn't have any problems power-wise I'd imagine, more from a technical point of view it would be similar to driving the HE-6s on a conventional amp, ie, not nearly as good as it could/should be. If you replaced your opamps with something tube-like (Opa-Moon?) it might help, but I'd imagine you would still fall quite a bit short of the HD800s performance on a proper (and expensive) tube amp. The HD800 will feel pretty harsh otherwise, especially coming from the planars.
 
The HE-6 however, while it would also require you to change the C2, doesn't have as expensive tastes. You could get a new HE-6 and appropriate speaker/receiver setup for less than roughly as much as a new HD 800 on it's own. Throw in the money saved on cable swapping and I'd say it's the least painful choice.
 
That said, I think you (and I) probably should look at improving the source (and perhaps amp too) situation first.

Thanks DB
Suppose you're right about the source and amp...

 But its more fun buying headphones! 

 
Thanks for your helps guys

 I'm not in any hurry to buy at the mo, just always like to have a future goal.

 

[singh]

Got Alesis RA500 stereo amp ( rated 200 Watts A/B )
 
it improved the sound quite a lot, and not just FR, the imaging also, soundstage has a little more depth now.
 
A great amp IMO, my vintage Panasonic 2-way crossover speaker benefits a lot from it.

 

[IEMCrazy]

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So if peeps have the Lyr or equivalent powerful headphone amp, they'd be better off sticking with the HE500's? Only asking because I'm looking at the HE6's as my poss next hp's. Approx 6 watts does seem like a lot current, plus with the tubes for the voltage swings I would have thought it would defo have enough power? Obviously there will be more refined amps out there, but for the price it still does look good.
 
IEM, I see that you now have the HD800's aswell, how do they stack up against the HE6's in your opinion when they are both sufficiently amped.(apologies if you have already covered this) I love the hifiman sound, but are the HD800's better at anything apart from soundstage? I know the HD800's have a massive fanbase and I have an idea what they may sound like based on the many threads and opinions, but there are not many peeps who also own the HE6's aswell. Would an HD800 fan be blown away by a sufficiently amped HE6 for instance? If they are similar would I be better off getting the HD800, being that they are a little more amp friendly?
 
Thanks IEM.

 
IMO, if you're bent on running Lyr, I'd go with HD800, however that recommendation comes with a caveat: It applies if and only if you intend to EQ!   The Lyr actually does sound very good with HE-6 contrary to knee-jerk reactions.  But it doesn't drive it into it's "special" characteristics over the HE-500 that costs half as much.  It's tonally smooth and balanced, but it lacks that extra bit of dynamics and detail that make the 6 special.  It's not that you can't use it, it's that you can save a lot of money and get basically the same performance out of the 500s for that amp

 
I think 6W is into 30ohm.   Or even less.  It has power but it doesn't have the reserves for sustained current delivery and hit the dynamic swings on demand.   I initially thought because the Lyr had balanced tone with HE-6 that it was fine in terms of the power equation but HE-6 just revealed how unrefined it is.  HD800 proved me wrong, it's a lot more refined an amp than HE-6 makes it appear to be, indicating the "lack of refinement" is mostly due to the power requirements of HE-6.  It sounds good....but it just doesn't sound much more special than HE-500. 
 
Lyr's definitely a nice amp overall.  It's not the best but it's darned good for the money.  But it's still not powerful enough to make the most of HE-6.  It gets a lot more out of HD800, and I had to do a lot of A/B tests between that and the 6004 with HD800 to determine where the 6004 shines better than it with HD800 (PM6004 is a $600 mass market speaker integrated and the HP out is just resistors off the main amp, so it's a class above Lyr both in terms of price and scale of economy from D&M...but it has issues with very quiet passages with HD800.)
 
HD800's a strange animal.  The comfort and weight astound me...it's as comfortable as AD700! Maybe even moreso! Out of the box, the sound is every bit as putridly bright and harsh and irritating as I've always believed it to be.  But with some time and care on EQ it can end up sounding more or less similar (as similar as it can be) to HE-6.  The soundstage of HD800 is definitely wider, it sounds like it's coming from farther from the ear.  However in terms of front image I found it benefits almost as much as HE-6 from some stereo image processing.  HE-6 is smoother, HD800 is faster.  HE-6 when fed well has got to be the king of bass...I don't mean "basshead bass" I mean smooth clean, hyper-detailed, fast bass straight to 20Hz.  HD800 is suprisingly great at bass delivery to the point of almost rivaling HE-6, but the big planar driver simply wins at performing down low in ways the smaller dynamic can't.  Conversely HD800 is a better champ at fine microdetail. HE-6 is darned good at that, but 800's speed gives it the edge on microdetail.  I think they're more or less equals, but each wins in different areas, and ultimately both can be just as satisfying.  If I had to pick just one...assuming EQ is allowed, if it was for listing to a full album or two in a session I think I'd take HE-6 and my big power amp.  If it was for wearing it for hours on end, HD800 would win in a heartbeat due to the extreme comfort. 
 
I actually like the PM6004 a lot with HD800, but unfortunately the annoying "crackle" type sounds (a very knowledgable lurker in this thread identified it as possibly being crossover distortion when below -40dB in signal level

) ruins it for classical, or any recording that has a large DR.  I'm considering a Mjolnir to rectify that..... maybe....  it has the advantage of being a usable secondary amp for HE-6 as well though I suspect the big power amp will still handle them better.
 
 
Either way I don't think the difference is as night and day as "being blown away by a properly amped HE-6"....they're good...they're very good.  They're smoother and ultimately more speaker like.  Though HD800 isn't really that far behind in terms of speaker-likeness if EQd.  I think a speaker afficianado would be more pleased with HE-6 as it will feel much more natural and familiar.  HD800 may still come across as too "headphone sharp."
 
I really like both....I do think I prefer HE-6 overall.  Possibly strongly.  But I'm greatly enjoying HD800 almost as much.
 
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Could be the amp? I hooked up a pair of he-400s to my emotiva and they definitely improved over the other headphone amps I had. 

 
HE-400 on the Emotivas?  Ouch!  You make me very tempted to stick my 400's on the PM6004 and see what happens....I have my stock HE-6 cable just sitting there in my Q envelope....

  Though honestly I was never disappointed with them on Lyr, which has a lot more power than the average HP amp.
 
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Same here.  I just didn't have any play on the volume knob.  So I'd rather keep them (HE-500s) on a headphone amp.

 
Yeah, that's where speaker amps get ugly for anything but HE-6...the volume knob.  There's always resistors...!
 
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Thanks, yeah I'm tossed between going for the HE6 or HD800... or neither! (why can't we be content with what we've got in this hobby!

 

) I don't really want to change my amps as I'm happy with them, and so I'm just wanting to know how much better (if any) the HE6's are to the HD800's when they're speakered up!   

 
IMO it's not so much a question of "better" so much as "preferred sound."  In he bass region, they're technically better.  In most other regions HD800 is technically better.  If you like smooth natural speaker sound, HE-6 is the choice.  If you don't care how much it presents itself like speakers....coin toss.  If you don't have an EQ or some really warm tubes, run, don't walk, from HD800

  HD800's strength is not it's sound signature, which is awful, it's that it's linear and responsive enough to take any sound signature you EQ it to have....much like HE-6...except HE-6's signature out of the box isn't nerve rattlingly awful like HD800

   EQ'd (via an EQ or via tubes/amps/cables/pixie-dust) they can both be great!
 
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IMO when the HE-6 are speakered up.  They run neck -n- neck with the HD800s on its best amp (IMO they pull ahead of the HD800s).  I think the HE-6 can get to 007 levels on a quality speaker amp.
 
I have not had a chance to hear the LCD-3s yet.

 
You're not the first person to make that comparison....I'd say there's something to it!