[bosiemoncrieff]

  I think it is hard to compare the HE-6's to anything else because the HE6 stock isn't that good so most owners have heavily modified them.  This, however, cause a very big variance in the sound quality of them because each set becomes almost unique.  Even with the same mods, some are done better than others.

I think that's part of the problem with this thread; we're not talking about a headphone. We're talking about a driver in dozens of different housing configurations before you attend to the fraught question of amplification. There is an inevitable talking past each other.

 

[negura]

  Well I guess we've got to agree to disagree 

 - as I find the Utopia midrange more realistic with truer more individual timbre than the HE6.
All transducers have some material based colourations, but to me the Utopia sounds the more pure and uncoloured.
I think the HE6 is very good and I find it a very satisfying listen - however I nearly always prefer (what I hear as) the Utopias better balance and clarity. And usually the better the recording the more the Utopia pulls ahead.

 
I agree the clarity is better with the Utopia. The frequency balance of the Utopia gives me the impression it had a nice tuning effort put into it. Whereas the HE-6s are the opposite - they can be quite raw in stock form which is compounded by how picky they are of amplification. But unfortunately the Utopia have a bit of a W nature (several peaks and dips) to their FR which I do notice. I always preferred a more linear honest reference sound.  The HE-6s also have coloration, particularly in the high treble, but the rest of the spectrum sounds more natural and linear to me. Besides the timbre coloration I mentioned the Utopia have, I am also not a big fan of closed headphones staging, unless necessary for isolation. I did not think someone will release a flagship in 2016 with such a small stage that the good ole HE-6s sound more spatious. And there are several flagships that stage even better than the HE-6s. The Utopia strangely despite the small stage, image quite well.
 
I respect the Utopia for their build quality and generally good clear sound, but I haven't found them to match the modded HE-6s overall in transparency, FR balance and linearity and that's despite the clarity advantage Utopia have.
 
Long reply short, yes I am happy to disagree too.

 
 

I think much of the debate centers around one's reception of the Utopia's Be drivers, which do have their own distinct sound, whether colored or not, and from what I understand this also imparts its own character in the Utopia speakers. I happen to really enjoy the sound of the Be drivers.

On the other hand, the treble etch on the HiFiMAN's is also something I can't ignore, as the Utopia's treble is much smoother in comparison. I hear the Utopia's midrange as more resolving than that of both the HD800 and HE-6, but again my sentiments agree with negura that the HE-6 mids sound more natural to me. However, I hear more microdetail and shades of microdynamics in the Utopia's mids to anything I have heard thus far.

 
All headphones have some coloration. Some more notable than others. Some examples: Stax have their "ethereal" sound, HD800s their peaky treble, HE-6s high treble peak, Beyer T1 the ear frying treble, Audeze the smoothing veil, HEK the softness etc. The Utopia indeed have a recognizable coloration which I suspect is related to the Be driver, and perhaps some other construction materials.
 
I can split this further as:
1. With some headphones their most noticeable coloration is quite localized: HD800 (famous 5-6k peak), HE-6 (9-10k peak). People who are sensitive to these particular areas (actually in my experience most people are to some extent), will try to do something about it if they can or if they can't go in some other direction.
2. Stax, Utopia, Audeze, HEK coloration is across the FR. This has a potential to be divisive in that some will dislike the respective coloration, some will accept it as is, and some/many will even love it.
3. Where the Utopia are quite interesting is in how they colour sound. There is a specific softish metallic coloration they have and that I have never heard in any real instruments before. What this does is it shifts the timbre of instruments (and even vocals), to something which is unrecognisable to me. That is why I choose to call it fake. For the sake of example it is a bit like what vinyl is compared to real leather or synthetic fibres to natural textiles. How big of a deal is this? Well not a huge one, because it's fairly subtle to begin with, and it may also require a frame of reference. Also I am sure there are advantages to it such as in the case of Be drivers, it is perhaps how they can have the low distortion and clarity, but I have heard transducers that can reproduce real instruments better and without this effect. In the ideal world I would like to hear only the advantages and no disadvantages, and for flagship headphones costing what they do these days, I think we should ask for that "next level" of natural reproduction.
 
Adding everything up I was happy to call the Utopia a sidegrade to the modded HE-6s, but interestingly not very complementary headphones. They both have a relatively neutral sound signature, and more than a few similarities (both are quite clear/clean and articulated sounding).

 

[Tobes]

  I agree the clarity is better with the Utopia. The frequency balance of the Utopia gives me the impression it had a nice tuning effort put into it. Whereas the HE-6s are the opposite - they can be quite raw in stock form which is compounded by how picky they are of amplification. But unfortunately the Utopia have a bit of a W nature (several peaks and dips) to their FR which I do notice. I always preferred a more linear honest reference sound.  The HE-6s also have coloration, particularly in the high treble, but the rest of the spectrum sounds more natural and linear to me. Besides the timbre coloration I mentioned the Utopia have, I am also not a big fan of closed headphones staging, unless necessary for isolation. I did not think someone will release a flagship in 2016 with such a small stage that the good ole HE-6s sound more spatious. And there are several flagships that stage even better than the HE-6s. The Utopia strangely despite the small stage, image quite well.
 
I respect the Utopia for their build quality and generally good clear sound, but I haven't found them to match the modded HE-6s overall in transparency, FR balance and linearity and that's despite the clarity advantage Utopia have.

This might come down to interpretation of terms, but I actually find the Utopia to be a more honest and neutral transducer than the HE6.
I can appreciate what you're saying about the more closed in sound of the Utopia in comparison to the HE6 - to be honest this bothered me a bit when I got them.
I found changing to a custom Kimber cable produced a surprising increase in spaciousness with the Utopia and negated this issue for me (I use the same type of cable with the HE6).
The HE6 still stages a bit wider but is more diffuse. The Utopia has a better sense of dimensionality and layering of images while also resolving acoustics better on live recordings etc. 
 
I acknowledge what's been said above in relation to the many variants of modded HE6 and driving amplification. Because these factors can have quite an effect on the HE6's sound it's a bit hard to draw conclusions from comparisons within individual setups.  I've had my HE6's for a couple of years and have experimented with grill/fuzzor/blutack mods, 5 different pads, 4 different power amps and 2 HP amps - so I've got a reasonable feel for their sound. There's no doubt they're a fine headphone and I'm very open to possibility that better amp/mod combinations might unlock more 'magic' in the HE6.
I find the Utopia fundamentally superior but I wouldn't be surprised if someone hearing the HE6 in my setup would find it preferable - sometimes I do

.
In the end no-one can argue with personal preference. 

 

[negura]

  This might come down to interpretation of terms, but I actually find the Utopia to be a more honest and neutral transducer than the HE6.
I can appreciate what you're saying about the more closed in sound of the Utopia in comparison to the HE6 - to be honest this bothered me a bit when I got them.
I found changing to a custom Kimber cable produced a surprising increase in spaciousness with the Utopia and negated this issue for me (I use the same type of cable with the HE6).
The HE6 still stages a bit wider but is more diffuse. The Utopia has a better sense of dimensionality and layering of images while also resolving acoustics better on live recordings etc. 
 
I acknowledge what's been said above in relation to the many variants of modded HE6 and driving amplification. Because these factors can have quite an effect on the HE6's sound it's a bit hard to draw conclusions from comparisons within individual setups.  I've had my HE6's for a couple of years and have experimented with grill/fuzzor/blutack mods, 5 different pads, 4 different power amps and 2 HP amps - so I've got a reasonable feel for their sound. There's no doubt they're a fine headphone and I'm very open to possibility that better amp/mod combinations might unlock more 'magic' in the HE6.
I find the Utopia fundamentally superior but I wouldn't be surprised if someone hearing the HE6 in my setup would find it preferable - sometimes I do

.
In the end no-one can argue with personal preference. 

 
Ah yes, cables very good point. Both my HE-6s and Utopia used Toxic cables. I do agree they really helped open up the soundstage, but obviously aftermarket cables help both headphones in the same ways. 
 
If anything the Utopia had the better / more expensive model of the cables, so they had an advantage. The Toxic Cables Black Widow 8 wires I used for the Utopia is really quite something to be heard. It is with this great cable I made the soundstage assertion compared to the HE-6s, the latter using a much Scorpion cable, which is still a very good cable but not on the level of Black Widow 8 wires. I know the BW8 wire is better and sounds more open, because I've compared one with the Scorpion on HD800s.
 
My earlier opinion on this still holds. When I read some of these impressions, with the preferences caveat, I really think for many people the HE-6s still hold unlocked potential. Is it the rig, the mods, cables, all of them combined? My 2c.

 

[Jozurr]

I also happen to agree that the HEK V1 went lower than the HE-6, sub bass wise, when I compared both of them side by side. However I gave up on the HEK due to the soft bass impact. So from what I understand from all these opinions here, the Utopia HITS harder and the HE-6 goes lower? I mostly listen to techno/electronic music only, so Im thinking if it's time to switch from my HE-6 to Utopia. So many options..

 

[negura]

No my modded He-6s hit harder and go lower. Utopia have more quantity above sub-bass but less sub-bass. For EDM I prefer the visceral energy and hit of HE-6s. Only the Abyss are a serious challenger for this genre imo and perhaps even preferrable as midrange quality matters less here. The Utopia are good with EDM but like HEK they never fully satisfied me with this genre in comparison to the other two I mentioned. For different reasons. The Utopia are not soft but not top level energetic or alive either imo.

 

[jerick70]

If anyone is interested in a nice pair of replacement ear pads for the HE-6, look at these https://is.gd/IwXz0q.
 
I purchased a pair for my Fostex TH-900 MkIIs originally.  They fit perfectly and increase the comfort of the HE-6.  You don't have the overlap of the Audeze pads or have to preform voodoo on the HM5 pads to get the ring to fit.
 
FYI... You can get them directly from the amazon seller for $49.99.  I had to send an email to them to get this price.  Here is their website https://www.digitaldjgear.com/.

 

[LarsHP]

Regarding pads in general: I think pads with oval openings and otherwise smaller openings than stock pads changes the overall tonality and/or works as a bass lens.


I remember how the very first stock pads (velour with clear plastic taps) made HE-6 sound more open and lighter than the second generation velour and certainly the pleather pads (now both these are called the "old" pads). When changing to Audeze pads the tonality got darker overall and the Brainwavz HM5 velour pads is probably even slightly darker than the vegans.

I think the original stock HE-6 had a general tilt to the light side, certainly because of the extra treble around 8-10 kHz, but also because the pads had such a large inner diameter and weren't sealing very well either. This has been fixed with several mods mentioned in this and other threads. A well mod'ed HE-6 sounds extremely balanced in my opinion.

Amplification will play a role as well as DAC in terms of overall tonality, but no more than with other headphones.

 

[cs098]

hey guys, I got a used modded he-6 and the custom audeze pads on it are no good (filter is ripped out and it does not install properly). What other pads should I get?  ZMF, Audeze, focus pads?

 

[LarsHP]

  hey guys, I got a used modded he-6 and the custom audeze pads on it are no good (filter is ripped out and it does not install properly). What other pads should I get?  ZMF, Audeze, focus pads?

I have read that the ZMF Ori pads are good. I use Brainwavz HM5 angled pleather pads mod'ed with cloth/fabric on the inside walls. This way I get both the bass and dynamics of the leather / pleather pad and the resolution and sound staging of the velour / micro suede pad. HM5 pads are with memory foam which makes them super for sub bass and comfort, but are a bit smaller than the HiFiMan cups, so you need a ring from an old HiFiMan pad ($10) to keep it in the correct size and shape.

 

[cs098]

  I have read that the ZMF Ori pads are good. I use Brainwavz HM5 angled pleather pads mod'ed with cloth/fabric on the inside walls. This way I get both the bass and dynamics of the leather / pleather pad and the resolution and sound staging of the velour / micro suede pad. HM5 pads are with memory foam which makes them super for sub bass and comfort, but are a bit smaller than the HiFiMan cups, so you need a ring from an old HiFiMan pad ($10) to keep it in the correct size and shape.

thanks! I have also have a zmf eikon coming my way so I will get a pair of omni and eikon pads.

 
 
As for sound, even at this state, it's amazing. Great resolution, 3d stage, amazing bass. Tone is slightly on the brightish metallic side, but does not sound unatural. There also a peak there as well, but that can be fixed with good damping.  And is also very smooth with plenty of weight to the sound.
 
As for dynamics, I cannot get a good sense for it because the amp I'm using is not very dynamic sounding. And anything else I have doesn't not have enough power.

Vs utopia, I feel like he-6 has a larger stage and better bass extension. The utopia's bass is rolled off slightly, and the extension I hear is about as good as it gets for open dynamics. The utopia does extend to subbass, but it doesn't do it quite as well as a good planar. However I think the utopia might have more microdetail. I won't comment further because the amp I have is holding the he-6 back. The tone is quite similar for both as they're both non lush and slightly bright with uneven treble, the he-6 is the more metallic of the two but again, good damping can fix that problem.
 
As the he-6's bass goes, it has the type of bass that only slams when called for and when it does come out I think it's as impactful as the abyss. But unlike the abyss which is U shaped, the he-6 is more linear, which I like better.
 
 
Honestly, once I get good pads and damping with a good amp on the he-6, it might beat out all the other headphones I tried. Which includes senn (tho i'm still quite partial to the he-60) and stax estats, hd 800, utopia, he1K, lcd 4, abyss, hp-1

 

[Jozurr]

I went to a store and tried the Utopia out of the Simaudio 430HA and compared it against the HE-6 out of the same amp. The guy at the store almost didnt want me to try the Utopia saying they had not been completely broken in and that he doesnt want me to not be impressed with them? :/
Upon asking he said theyve been broken in for 2 days but he went on to say they need two weeks etc. I insisted saying that I know the Utopia gets sufficiently there with 40-50 hrs, but he seemed to know it all apparently. In the end if I am listening to these or not, he said ok go ahead and try it.
Against the HE-6 my impressions were:
-The HE-6 extended lower and the bass hit slightly harder, but the Utopia is no slouch (looking at you HD800)
-The mids on the Utopia were just simply better ans felt more real
-The highs on the HE-6 had a bit more energy up top, which I really liked
-The microdetailing and layering on the Utopia is extremely good, where I think my HE-6 wasnt doing as good. The sound stage also was maybe a bit better on the Utopia but they almost sounded similar to me there because the music I listen to does not utilise wide soundstages anyway.
-The Utopia felt like a complete sound spectrum, with nothing sticking out and just working perfectly in harmony where the HE-6 just seemed more fun overall. 
I think overall the HE-6 had more of a "kick" to them for electronic music for me, but I can imagine how the Utopia are more refined and how a lot of people would love them. Theres nothing "bad" on them whatsoever. Im going to stick with the HE6 and get a J2 to drive them.

 

[Tobes]

   The guy at the store almost didnt want me to try the Utopia saying they had not been completely broken in and that he doesnt want me to not be impressed with them? :/

I think that guy is right, I found the Utopias continued to improve for at least a week, probably longer.
Though I've got to admit their innate balance and clarity becomes addictive and this may give the impression of much longer ongoing 'improvement'.
I certainly think that the true measure of the Utopias can't be assessed in an audition of a few hours - as with the best components they reveal their true qualities over the long term.
I'm a HE6 fan, but mine aren't getting much ear time with the Utopia at hand.

 

[Jozurr]

  The think the guy is right, I found the Utopias continued to improve for at least a week, probably longer.
Though I've got to admit their innate balance and clarity becomes addictive and this may give the impression of much longer ongoing 'improvement'.
I certainly think that the true measure of the Utopias can't be assessed in an audition of a few hours - as with the best components they reveal their true qualities over the long term.
I'm a HE6 fan, but mine aren't getting much ear time with the Utopia at hand.

 
Does the bass eventually hit harder and go lower than the HE-6? That is my biggest gripe, and if it does, then I'd have picked the Utopias over the HE-6 too. I understand that the Utopias do a lot of things very well.

 

[Tobes]

Does the bass eventually hit harder and go lower than the HE-6? That is my biggest gripe, and if it does, then I'd have picked the Utopias over the HE-6 too. I understand that the Utopias do a lot of things very well.

No. HE6 extends lower and has more 'oomph' in the bottom octave. For genres like edm and electronic this can be an advantage. Though I find Utopia superior in bass focus and detail.
I find the Utopias bass extension quite adequate across all genres and it's only in direct comparison to the HE6 that that the deep bass deficit is exposed. Of course this is a matter of personal taste.