[Skylab]

Nice review, Milosz! Well done.

 

[wuwhere]

Very nice indeed, laid it out unbiasedly, plain, simple, & succinctly.

 

[grokit]

Great straightforward overview of the HE-6 milosz, you really nailed it.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

ROC SA is discontinued
 
at least one person (I can't even find the thread LOL) said it sounded awful but that could have been the Roc (compared to another amp they had)
 
goes off for more fruitless searching ....
 
Quote:

I was poking around the Audio gd thread and noticed that the Roc Version SA's specs:
 
25 ohm: 9W
60 ohm: 9W
100 ohm: 9W
300 ohm: 3W
600 ohm: 1.5W
 
Looks like 9W into 50 ohms.

For only $680, this looks like a really good SS option for the HE-6s.
 
Just thought I'd pass it along.

 

 
They are still showing up on their price list:
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/PriceList.htm
 

 

 

[DavidMahler]

Quote:

Quote:

My HE-6 Order history:  From China to Chicago
 

1. I ordered my HE-6 on December 4th 2010 via the Head-Direct website shopping cart.
2. Got a confirming / 'What is your phone number' email on Dec. 5th, to which I replied.
3. Got an email with a DHL tracking number on Dec 7th, says "It will take about 3-4 days to be input into tracking system. "  But, in fact, it was already in the DHL system, showing the parcel was in DHL's hands on Dec. 7th  and was already moving between DHL sorting / routing hub facilities in Hong Kong.
4. DHL tracking shows the parcel leaving Hong Kong on Dec. 8th headed for Franklin, IL USA (this could be a DHL center in Franklin , IL which is a teeny tiny town outside downstate Springfield or it could- more likely- be the fairly large DHL facility in Franklin Park, IL which is on the southern periphery of O'Hare airport. O'Hare has direct flights from Hong Kong, which take about 15 hours. It is probably in the air right now.  What a world we live in!)
5. Showing as having arrived and being processed (customs?) at a DHL hub in Cincinnati in the USA during the early hours of DEC 9th
6. Delivered to me 9 AM Dec 9th in perfect condition (and including a spare earcushion)

 
This has all been extremely orderly and well-coordinated. Hats off to HiFiMan. 

So they came, I heard, they conquered. (To turn a phrase.) 
 
SOUND:  Very clean sound with a high frequency emphasis in the 4 kHz region. This differs from the LCD-2 which is ruler flat from ~15 Hz to 1 kHz and then has the highs slightly below 0 dB on their amplitude plot, but with roughly equal level from octave to octave above 1 kHz.  Also differs from the HD800 which sounds to me like it has a larger high frequency peak than the HE-6 and the HD800 peak is higher in frequency too, more like 7~8 kHz. This makes the HD800 emphasize vocal sibilance more than the HE-6.  HE-6 has treble emphasis but it is mild enough to tame sibilance excess, if you follow me.  This treble response gives a very "open" sound, which is also a characteristic of the HD800.  To me the LCD-2 sounds very neutral - could I say brutally neutral? Which is to say for some people it won't offer enough detailed insight into the sound.  This is not to say that the LCD-2 lacks detail; rather it presents it's detail in a more subdued way. The LCD-2 offers detail- the HE-6 showcases it.
 
The thing about these planar drivers that is so wonderful is their fantastic behavior in the time domain. If you look at a waterfall plot of the LCD-2 you can see it is nearly perfect. There is no overhang or energy storage, even at low frequencies.  I suspect the HE-6 also shares this characteristic.  As far as I can tell, the sonic result of this tightly controlled time-domain behavior is a lack of "smearing" between sounds in the mix. The individual sounds that have been recorded and reproduced sound more cleanly separate, more like individual sounds than like a blend. This is also what draws me to my Quad ESL-57 speakers - aside from good frequency response and low harmonic and intermodulation distortion, superb transducers like the ESL-57 and these planar headphones really delineate the sounds in the recording from each other. These HE-6 offer that hard-to-describe "resolution" or "clarity" that comes when the transducer starts moving when the signal starts, and stops moving as soon as the signal stops, with minimal continuation of vibration.  
 
The other thing these planars can do is produce BASS. Electrostatic headphones, coupled with the right electronics, also have good waterfall plots indicating good time-domain performance.  But you run into trouble when you try to give an electrostatic diaphragm a lot of excursion.  Get the diaphragm too close to the stator and you're going to have arcing, so you really have to watch it.  You don't have that problem with planar drivers.  If the diaphragm actually touches the magnetic stator due to a huge excursion, you'd get a "slap" or buzz sound, but no sparks. So, you can engineer greater excursion into planar-magnetic drivers than ESL's- for a given diaphragm size a planar magnetic driver can have better bass than an ESL.  The HE-6 is no exception to this. There is deep, controlled and impactful bass. Bass is different from the LCD-2 because the voice of the HE-6 is different - more high frequency energy in the HE-6 means at a given overall volume level the bass will be a bit lower in comparison to the sound of the LCD-2. But the extension and low distortion, and good transient behavior of a planar driver is there in the HE-6 so the bass is of wonderful quality.
 
Now in the LCD-2 vs HE-6 area we can get into an argument about which sound we like- the slight mid-treble emphasis of the HE-6 or the slightly recessed overall treble of the LCD-2.  That is a matter of taste. I like them BOTH.  Just like I enjoy steak sometimes and salad at other times-  vive la différence!
 
COMFORT:  Both the LCD-2 and HE-6 are heavy.  I don't like that, but I consider that a small price to pay for the fine quality of the sound.  I prefer the velour earpads of the HE-6. The lambskin pads of the LCD-2 are butter soft, but leather makes my ears hot and cloth does not.  I haven't quite bent the frame of the HE-6 into exactly the right shape for my head yet - I am reluctant to just torque away on a pair of $1k+ headphones, but I think I will eventually get them to fit right.  The HE-6 does seem to CLAMP my giant head more than the LCD-2, which is not to my liking, but maybe in time I'll be able to bend the HE-6 frames to eliminate this.  Comfort of either phone is not it's strong point. I can wear them for an hour or two but really any longer gives me a headache. But like I said, for the fantastic sound quality, I will HAPPILY endure a little discomfort.
 
BUILD:  Build is good, they seem sturdy and the finish is nice.  I like the gloss black earcups and accents.  The matte surface and gunmetal gray color of the steel framework goes very well with the gloss black. While the build is good, it doesn't display as much pretty craft as the precision alloy castings of the Sennheiser HD800s, for example. In fact, the nicest build I ever saw was the jewel-like Sony MDR-SA5000's I used to own, with their fabulous magnesium diecast framework and beautiful carbon-fiber earcups.  I didn't really like their sound, so I sold them, but boy they were pretty.
 
CABLING: I would have angled the connectors forward instead of straight down, for comfort.  I like the cable.  I don't know if the cable makes it sound better (wire is a topic for endless debate) but I like the FLEXIBILITY of the cabling provided by the HE-6.  I really dislike the stiff, jacketed cable of the LCD-2.  I have a pair of Beyer DT880's with Black Dragon cables on them, and I ABSOLUTELY HATE the stiffness of these wires. The DT880's came with these wires when I bought them off Audiogon, so that's why I have them. I just hate stiff wire.  Maybe the Black Dragon wire sounds great, I don't know, I've not compared this wire against other wire.  But they sure are a pain physically, these stiff wires just won't DRAPE; they push and pull. Same with the LCD-2 wire.  The Sennheisers get the wire right; nice flexible wire with quiet cloth jacketing.  The Sony MDR-SA5000 was also excellent in this area- nicely thin cloth-jacketed wire. No cloth jacket on the HE-6, but nice soft plastic, and the wire is quite light.  It's just fine.  I want to get a set of wires for my LCD-2's that are like these HE-6 wires.  I like the flexibility of different connectors, too, offered by the HE-6 stock cables.  Dual-circuit balanced 4-pin XLR, standard 1/4"  phono or speaker-amp wires are readily accomplished.  The look of the HE-6 wires is like a handmade aftermarket /  exotic cable. That's an OK look. They ARE exotic phones, and the cable looks a little nonstandard too, all the better.
 
 
 
AMPLIFIER COMPATIBILITY I will make a list of all my amps and whether they work / don't work with the HE-6 here, editing to add info as I check out the HE-6 on my various amps.
 
Audio-Gd  FUN:  Drives the HE-6  "OK"  but not "great."  Plays loud enough and bass is good (not great)-  I had to turn the level control just about all the way up and I got a medium-loud level.  Amp didn't sound like it was strained or clipping, but it had JUST enough "oomph."
 
Beta 22 (three-channel):  Now we're talking!  Great sound. Bass is WONDERFUL.  All the volume you'd ever want, without any hint of strain from the amp. 

 

Very good work!  I agree with this review overall and I like the way you formatted it and explained your opinions!
Cheers
 

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:

Quote:

ROC SA is discontinued
 
at least one person (I can't even find the thread LOL) said it sounded awful but that could have been the Roc (compared to another amp they had)
 
goes off for more fruitless searching ....
 
Quote:

I was poking around the Audio gd thread and noticed that the Roc Version SA's specs:
 
25 ohm: 9W
60 ohm: 9W
100 ohm: 9W
300 ohm: 3W
600 ohm: 1.5W
 
Looks like 9W into 50 ohms.

For only $680, this looks like a really good SS option for the HE-6s.
 
Just thought I'd pass it along.

 

 
They are still showing up on their price list:
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/PriceList.htm
 

 

The original roc is the one that's discontinued, not the one(version SA) one you mentioned. The original roc also wasn't this powerful.

 

[MikeLa]

The speaker tap cable for the HE-6 arrived today.  They sound great attached to the back of the Leben CS300xs -  80-84db with the volume a click above 9 o'clock.  They are dead quiet, unlike the LCD-2 which had a low hum when attached to the Leben speaker taps.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Wellllll, all I am trying to do express to other members that the WA6 will not work with the HE6 or not well enough to warrant the price of the HE6, the HE6 is a waist of money with the WA6 simple as that.
Matter of fact I know one member that is disappointed driving the HE6 with his EC ZDT.
I didn't say the WA6 sucked, I said my trick out WA6SE sucked when I tried the HE6, and as I am sure you know the WA6SE is a better amp and more powerful than the WA6.
The simple fact with the HE6 is they are a great and unique headphone if properly paired with other gears, and the WA6 is not a good match.
 
You are very good at writing long articles expressing your opinion, but when you start off writing about the WA6 being ok with the HE6 I stop reading because I find that to be a bit misleading. That said I am guessing that you didn't intend to mislead but simple miss worded what you your trying saying.
 
Maybe you are missing my point, the HE6 is not about how much volume you can pump into them its about power and being able to drive them properly.

 
Update, as you requested and out of courtesy to you I skimmed over part two.of your opinion. Some of your opinion I can't comment on because I don't have it. That said I do have the HD-800s (cardas cable) and I wouldn't use it as a comparison to the HE6s.
!st, most amp will power the HD-800s, most head amps will not properly power the HE6.
2nd, the HD-800 is a high imp, the HE6 is a low imp.
3rd, the HD-800s do not have the dynamic range of the HE6 or the speed or the clarity or the precise sound-stage of the HE6.
4Th, the HE6 has a different build design.
5Th, I find the bass to be equal to the mids and highs, very well balanced headphone. Now there maybe a few reasons why we differ about the bass. One being you do have to have well over 48 hours on the HE6 before it starts to come together. And it is very possible that the low volume level you like and the two head amps you use will not fully bring out the bass. Example, you use a Princes 274B in you WA6 and that is known to favor the mids and highs, probably not the best match for the HE6.
 
Also keep in mind that I am running a trick out WA5LE with a nos matched pair of WE300Bs (26/56), a nos matched pair of TSRP's CTL 6SN7GT ( 08/42 tested twice by the USN) and a pair of new designed EML 5U4G's. So what this means is that the combo of tubes i am using will bring out the best in the HE6. My point here is maybe the systems you are using are not optimizing the HE6, therefore make a headphone like the HD-800 a closer match for what you are hearing. Plus for M/C audio I am running that though my SVS Realiser using a copy of AIX's sound room with all there reference equipment.
 
However I guess we can both agree that the HE6 is a real winner.

I compared the HE-6 to HD800 because people want to know how they compare, but I too prefer the HE-6, even under-amped.  I'll address your 5 points, in my defense.
 
(1) I will not argue with point #1 that the HD800 are much easier to drive, and that you need a lot of power to reach the full potential of the HE-6.  My point is that with sub-optimal amplification I still preferred the HE-6 by a small margin vs a well amped HD800.  I would not tell someone with an HE-6 to go out buy a WA6 for them, but based on what I am hearing I would not tell a WA6 owner that they shouldn't buy and use the HE-6 while they save up for a better amp.  If they say they'll never upgrade the amp then sure, I'd tell them to pick another phone.  
 
But I have the HE-6 on my head right now as I type this, feeding them with Apogee mini-DAC > maxed WA6 (sophia princess 274b/Sylvania VT-231).  I have rested my ears for about 5-6 hours with no listening tonight, and I currently only have the volume knob at 12-1 o'clock for normal volumes.  I turned it up briefly to 5 o'clock and the sound remains clean, non-distorted and at moderately loud levels that I would not listen to for extended periods.  2 o'clock is about as loud as I want to go at this late hour.  In the past when I had been listening for long periods and had over-done the volume levels a bit, then 5 o'clock on the WA6 seemed too low as my ears clamped down and needed more volume.  Usually that is a warning sign that you are listening too loudly.  Ignoring the volume which is low but acceptable, the sound of the HE-6 with my WA6 is simply wonderful right now - I hear all the nuances and subtle details, with nice deep and full bass, rich mids, and sparkly treble, without having to crank the volume up to extract that from them.  If I want to rock out and blast, then the WA6 is inadequate.
 
As for where my maxed WA6 stands vs other amps that are better - I previously compared my WA6 to a WA22 that I had on loan for 2 weeks, and the sound signature was quite similar and both were very good.  Where they differed the most was that (1) the WA22 had both a wider and deeper soundstage, and (2) quite a bit more power (Sylvania 7236 tubes).  With my K1000 the ZDT was still a little more powerful than the WA22, and the ZDT had audibly better control over my low impedance LA7000.  So, I agree the WA6 is underpowered - the WA6 is the minimum that I would use to drive the HE-6 to normal volumes.  I'll get out my dB meter this weekend and see what I get out of this rig after I cut out a new cardboard baffle to seal the meter to the earcups.
 
(2) I assume that the implication in point #2 is that the difference in impedance will mean that each phone has different amplification needs, where the HD800 benefit from higher voltage swing and the HE-6 benefit from more current delivery.  I have no argument about that, but you can't be telling me that I can't compare a high impedance phone to a low impedance phone.  There are many amps that work well with both, such as my ZDT, SAC, EF5, and HDP.  The EHHA was another one, although I only had one on loan for 3 weeks.  My WA6 works well with both hi and low impedance, assuming that the phones are not horribly inefficient like the K1000 and HE-6.  The K1000 and HE-6 prototypes were a joke on the WA6, making the amp and phones useless.
 
(3) On the 3rd point I would say it's my opinion that the HD800 are still very fast for a dynamic and they have good dynamic range, with a very enjoyable soundstage outside of the head.  The HE-6 imaging is more pinpoint and precise but smaller, although I'm willing to live with it because the HE-6 are less fatiguing and more extended, balanced, and transparent sounding, especially at low volumes.  
 
(4) In terms of point #4, does that mean we can only compare the HE-6 to other orthos, and Stax only to other stats, etc?  
 
(5) As for the 5th point, I actually said the HE-6 "can be delicate with finesse and good detail at low volumes, without losing the bass presence or fullness and extension".  It was the HD800 and Senn HE-60 that I felt don't have full bass at low volumes, while the HE-6 do.  It appears we are in agreement in this area, and maybe you misread what I said.  
 
In my WA6 the Sophia 274b is not bass-lite at all, and what I love from the tube is a much bigger soundstage than I had with my Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 or Mullard Metal Base GZ34 - those did have slightly better bass and midrange presence and fullness or warmth, at the expense of a more closed in soundstage with less sparkle in the highs.  The Sovtek 5U4G that came with my WA6 had a decent soundstage, but with artificial sounding mids and highs.  I do plan to try an EML rectifier some day, and maybe a nicer NOS 5U4G or 5V4G than a cheap Russian model, as I would like to see if that helps the HD800 bass any.  For now I have to use the HD800 with the ZDT to really enjoy them.

 

[Audio-Omega]

How does HD800 and HE-6 sound in balanced mode ?  Should I get HE-6 regardless ?

 

[hawkhead]

From http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm
 
[size=x-small]8th , Nov.  : These products will discontinued with Nov. :  Reference 9, ST-1, ST-7 , SA-3000, SA-300CN, SA-200 , C-1SE, ROC , ROC-SA  [/size]
 
Quote:

Quote:

ROC SA is discontinued
 
at least one person (I can't even find the thread LOL) said it sounded awful but that could have been the Roc (compared to another amp they had)
 
goes off for more fruitless searching ....
 
Quote:

I was poking around the Audio gd thread and noticed that the Roc Version SA's specs:
 
25 ohm: 9W
60 ohm: 9W
100 ohm: 9W
300 ohm: 3W
600 ohm: 1.5W
 
Looks like 9W into 50 ohms.

For only $680, this looks like a really good SS option for the HE-6s.
 
Just thought I'd pass it along.

 

 
They are still showing up on their price list:
 
http://www.audio-gd.com/PriceList.htm
 

 

 

[hawkhead]

From http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm
 
[size=small]8th , Nov.  : These products will discontinued with Nov. :  Reference 9, ST-1, ST-7 , SA-3000, SA-300CN, SA-200 , C-1SE, ROC , ROC-SA  [/size]

 
Quote:

The original roc is the one that's discontinued, not the one(version SA) one you mentioned. The original roc also wasn't this powerful.

 

[Jian]

sorry Guys the New king is  the ED10


 


We can't evaluate the O2 MKI ,because of lacking the proper amp. Still the HE6 is very impressive

Have to disagree with you mate. I have lots of hours on ed10 with several setups including balanced ed10 configs, trying so hard convincing myself into buying this beautiful headphone, still haven't succeeded yet. I'm a big fan of ultrasone, and Ed10 sounds nice, relax and comfortable, but it is IMHO still in the same league with the other players 1/3 or half of its price.

I'm still trying though, I do not give up easily.

 

[musicman59]

Quote:

From http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm
 
[size=small]8th , Nov.  : These products will discontinued with Nov. :  Reference 9, ST-1, ST-7 , SA-3000, SA-300CN, SA-200 , C-1SE, ROC , ROC-SA  [/size]

 

 

Does anybody have hands-on experience with the Roc SA? The output specs seems really high even compared to the Phoenix.

 

[coolcat]

jian the HE6 at my home set up is competitive to the ED10 ,I think some probably like the LCD2 or HE6 more than the ED10.I myself don't buy the ED10 cuz I think I can find something equal or maybe better with this money. Like I said before the Headphones,I decided to keep are the HE6 , T1 and O2MkI ( note that today I had a chance to hear the O2 MKI with a decent set up (006t) ) and I plan to buy the LCD2 when I go to the US too. But still to my ear I like the ED10 the most.

 

[Mad Dude]

Quote:

Does anybody have hands-on experience with the Roc SA? The output specs seems really high even compared to the Phoenix.

I'm going to post some impressions about the Roc SA as soon as I get my HE-6.
 
Does anyone know if DHL express delivers on saturdays? The package has cleared customs yesterday morning, so I was hoping to get it today...