[Sorrodje]

In fact , the more I learn in TOTL headphone the most I'm reluctant to rank them. I can do that for myself based from what I hear about technicalities but no more. 
 
In the case of HE-6 , HD800 and HE-6 are equal, share some similarities and enough differences to make them complimentary . i switched from one to the other during weeks and I was not able to tell myself which I prefer. Considering how I'm a HD800 nut, it's really rare.  HE-6, HD800 and some Stax are my summit-fi for now. 

 

[TonyNewman]

  In fact , the more I learn in TOTL headphone the most I'm reluctant to rank them. I can do that for myself based from what I hear about technicalities but no more. 
 
In the case of HE-6 , HD800 and HE-6 are equal, share some similarities and enough differences to make them complimentary . i switched from one to the other during weeks and I was not able to tell myself which I prefer. Considering how I'm a HD800 nut, it's really rare.  HE-6, HD800 and some Stax are my summit-fi for now. 

 
You do reach a point with amps and headphones where the key word is 'different' rather than 'better'.
 
For pure SQ and musical enjoyment, I still rate the HE6 above the HD800, but the comfort factor of the HD800 for a long session is no small thing. It is like wearing nothing. Try wearing an LCD-X (puke) for 2+ hours.

 

[lojay]

   
You do reach a point with amps and headphones where the key word is 'different' rather than 'better'.
 
For pure SQ and musical enjoyment, I still rate the HE6 above the HD800, but the comfort factor of the HD800 for a long session is no small thing. It is like wearing nothing. Try wearing an LCD-X (puke) for 2+ hours.

 
I can see where you are coming from as I had a setup similar to yours. I used to rate the HD800 lower than the HE6 when I used to have the Woo WA5 with premium tubes.
 
It took a number things for me to start appreciating the HD800 more to the extent I now prefer it to the HE6 on technicalities, classical music, choral music and other live or hifi recordings:
(1) proper mods on the HD800 (semi-Anax mod with rug liner only); 
(2) revealing amps (the Apex Teton and EC 445) which I rank at least a level higher than the WA5 in terms of transparency, tonality and resolution;
(3) extensive power treatment, from dedicated power lines to Shunyata Triton power conditioning and Shunyata cables that each cost more than the HD800 itself; and
(4) top of the line DACs like the MSB Analog and Yggy. 
 
With my setup, the HD800 takes the cake for resolution, tonality, soundstage, clarity and surprisingly, musical engagement. On the last factor, I note that the HD800 on my current rig sounds more forgiving than on my old setup with the WA5, as the digital nasties, noise and artifacts (which the HD800 tend to exaggerate) are now gone. 
 
However, the HE6 is still more tactile and fun to listen to. It has a fuller sound and does mids and vocals noticeably better than the HD800. Unfortunately I screwed up the Fuzzor mod recently so I have not been using them often lately, but I am excited to try the mods suggested by Ohhgourami.

 

[TonyNewman]

   
I can see where you are coming from as I had a setup similar to yours. I used to rate the HD800 lower than the HE6 when I used to have the Woo WA5 with premium tubes.
 
It took a number things for me to start appreciating the HD800 more to the extent I now prefer it to the HE6 on technicalities, classical music, choral music and other live or hifi recordings:
(1) proper mods on the HD800 (semi-Anax mod with rug liner only); 
(2) revealing amps (the Apex Teton and EC 445) which I rank at least a level higher than the WA5 in terms of transparency, tonality and resolution;
(3) extensive power treatment, from dedicated power lines to Shunyata Triton power conditioning and Shunyata cables that each cost more than the HD800 itself; and
(4) top of the line DACs like the MSB Analog and Yggy. 
 
With my setup, the HD800 takes the cake for resolution, tonality, soundstage, clarity and surprisingly, musical engagement. On the last factor, I note that the HD800 on my current rig sounds more forgiving than on my old setup with the WA5, as the digital nasties, noise and artifacts (which the HD800 tend to exaggerate) are now gone. 
 
However, the HE6 is still more tactile and fun to listen to. It has a fuller sound and does mids and vocals noticeably better than the HD800. Unfortunately I screwed up the Fuzzor mod recently so I have not been using them often lately, but I am excited to try the mods suggested by Ohhgourami.

If you want transparency try the WA5 with C3G drivers + TA300B + TAS274B. Frankly, the 6SN7/6F8G based drivers are rubbish compared to this tube. I laugh out loud when I see a TS RP set of 6NS7s going for over 400USD when I can get a pair of C3Gs at 1/10th the price that urinates all over the TS RPs.
 
HD800 is a marvelous headphone, but the HE6 with the latest mods kills it by no small margin to my ears. YMMV on that, but to me there is no doubt. Planar is a better technology that, when well implemented, can do more than a dynamic driver. I still love my HD800 for the comfort factor if nothing else, but if I want to get as close to the music as I can I go for the modded HE6. As always, YMMV.

 

[negura]

Good... Probably won't beat the HD800 though!

 
HD800 sounds more open, but I the HE-6s might actually have better clarity at the instrument level. The former do sound more open and airy though, comparatively speaking. That is a sound stage/layering/treble thing though. The HD800s are comparatively brighter, which could come across as more clarity. On those notes, I would say it's a tradeoff here really.

 

[lojay]

If you want transparency try the WA5 with C3G drivers + TA300B + TAS274B. Frankly, the 6SN7/6F8G based drivers are rubbish compared to this tube. I laugh out loud when I see a TS RP set of 6NS7s going for over 400USD when I can get a pair of C3Gs at 1/10th the price that urinates all over the TS RPs.

HD800 is a marvelous headphone, but the HE6 with the latest mods kills it by no small margin to my ears. YMMV on that, but to me there is no doubt. Planar is a better technology that, when well implemented, can do more than a dynamic driver. I still love my HD800 for the comfort factor if nothing else, but if I want to get as close to the music as I can I go for the modded HE6. As always, YMMV.

I don't think swapping the tubes will change as much as swapping the entire system, esp the amp itself. Trust me, I have gone a long way to max out the HD800's potential. You don't have to trust my ears, you can also ask Negura who had a similar setup as mine. Also most people who have heard my system agree that my HD800 rig sounds even more amazing than my SR009 rig.

The WA5 was not great with the HD800 compared to the amps I am using. I like the amp but only with the HE6. But YMMV.

 

[lojay]

HD800 sounds more open, but I the HE-6s might actually have better clarity at the instrument level. The former do sound more open and airy though, comparatively speaking. That is a sound stage/layering/treble thing though. The HD800s are comparatively brighter, which could come across as more clarity. On those notes, I would say it's a tradeoff here really.

I think it's a matter of semantics. When talking about clarity I mean openness and pin point accuracy in terms of sonic cues. So, that refers to the "clarity" in the sense of the contour between instruments and sounds, not "clarity" in the sense of the inherent texture within instruments, voices and sounds.

The best example of this is the SR009. Not as open or airy or "clear" as the HD800 in the sense which I've used but certainly "clearer" than the HD800 in your sense of internal texture or resolution. I think planars (SR009, HE6 and HE1000 included) excel in this regard, but the HD800's amazing imaging and openness (in your terms) makes it "clearer" in the sense that sonic cues are very clearly delineated.

 

[negura]

I think it's a matter of semantics. When talking about clarity I mean openness and pin point accuracy in terms of sonic cues. So, that refers to the "clarity" in the sense of the contour between instruments and sounds, not "clarity" in the sense of the inherent texture within instruments, voices and sounds.

The best example of this is the SR009. Not as open or airy or "clear" as the HD800 in the sense which I've used but certainly "clearer" than the HD800 in your sense of internal texture or resolution. I think planars (SR009, HE6 and HE1000 included) excel in this regard, but the HD800's amazing imaging and openness (in your terms) makes it "clearer" in the sense that sonic cues are very clearly delineated.

 
Clarity in the sense of instrument contour is a bit better with the HE-6s. Because of the smaller stage they are all in a small space though. The HE-6s textures sound more natural too, in particular with vocals. Oppenness, staging and layering go to the HD800s.

 

[bitsnbytes]

Curious...how do the modded HE6s stack up to the STAX?

I'm loving the HE-6 with oohgourami's vegan back felt mod and think it's almost optimal to my listening experience. I'm just wondering where you guys place the 6 in preference (although there might be some bias in this specific thread)

 

[lojay]

Clarity in the sense of instrument contour is a bit better with the HE-6s. Because of the smaller stage they are all in a small space though. The HE-6s textures sound more natural too, in particular with vocals. Oppenness, staging and layering go to the HD800s.

We are hearing different things, might be the 45 tubes vs 2A3.

 

[Tobes]

 
If you want transparency try the WA5 with C3G drivers + TA300B + TAS274B. Frankly, the 6SN7/6F8G based drivers are rubbish compared to this tube. I laugh out loud when I see a TS RP set of 6NS7s going for over 400USD when I can get a pair of C3Gs at 1/10th the price that urinates all over the TS RPs.
 
HD800 is a marvelous headphone, but the HE6 with the latest mods kills it by no small margin to my ears. YMMV on that, but to me there is no doubt. Planar is a better technology that, when well implemented, can do more than a dynamic driver. I still love my HD800 for the comfort factor if nothing else, but if I want to get as close to the music as I can I go for the modded HE6. As always, YMMV.

How do you find the HD800 with your SS amps?
I'm considering getting a pair to complement my HE6 as they are a relatively good value here in Australia (for comparison, in Aust HD800 sell for $1350, Ether $2400 and HEK $4300).

 

[negura]

We are hearing different things, might be the 45 tubes vs 2A3.

 
 I doubt it. The differences should be the same... Perhaps how the HE-6s are modded?

 

[lojay]

   
 I doubt it. The differences should be the same... Perhaps how the HE-6s are modded?

 
The 45 tube sounds clearer than the 2A3 but lacks power, so I may be listening to a properly powered HD800 but an underpowered HE6. Might be the mods, so far Vegan pads, no grill and no Fuzzor. 

 

[negura]

   
The 45 tube sounds clearer than the 2A3 but lacks power, so I may be listening to a properly powered HD800 but an underpowered HE6. Might be the mods, so far Vegan pads, no grill and no Fuzzor. 

 
blu tack, no grills/foam, hard wiring, velours, stock quarters here.

 

[preproman]

Jason,  you like your 445 / HD800 better than your KGSSHV / 009s? Very interesting.  I wonder if the T2 would change that, not sure.
 
If I could only have on rig it would be:
 
009 / KGST place holder for BHSE / TotalDac
 
I gave up my modded HE-6 because the Abyss (un modded) was better on all accounts.  I took the fuzzor mod off because the Abyss made the HE-6 sound muddy.  Removing the fuzzor mod helped, but still could not come to the level of clarity of the Abyss.  The comfort level on the Abyss is really getting on my nerves.  I can deal with the HE-6 comfort level.  I can leave my 009s and the HD800 on for hours...