= HiFiMAN HE-560 Impressions & Discussion Thread =
Dec 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM Post #10,606 of 21,171
Because if I can't kick ass anywhere I go, I don't go there!

Seriously, its where I spend 40+ hours a week. Might as well be able to escape stupity and do what I do.

Fix stuff.

The less I have to listen to BS, the better job I do.
 
Dec 5, 2014 at 11:20 PM Post #10,607 of 21,171
Because if I can't kick ass anywhere I go, I don't go there!

Seriously, its where I spend 40+ hours a week. Might as well be able to escape stupity and do what I do.

Fix stuff.

The less I have to listen to BS, the better job I do.


Come on, are you saying everybody at work is stupid? Statistically that is highly improbable
biggrin.gif
.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 12:03 AM Post #10,608 of 21,171
  When I sent my Enhancement modded 560s to Purrin for measurements, they turned out to measure near the exact same as the stock Focus Pad 560s.  The measurements were definitely too close to be conclusive.
 
If something like that particular mod, which cuts out the mesh liner on the focus pad, introduces an entirely new element-- the liner placed over the diaphragm, and cuts lots of damping holes in the interior of focus pad itself, shows no noticeable difference in measurements, then what makes anybody think two very thin pieces of wire moved away from the rear of the driver would create a noticeable difference in measurements?
 
Those measurements taken of the 560 pre and post movement of the wires are definitely inconclusive.  There's absolutely no way something so small would cause a noticeable difference in measurement that's large enough to surpass the threshold of measurement variability itself.
 
This also isn't to say that inconclusive measurements means no difference in sound, and I can't comment personally about the subjective difference of the 560 with cable pushed aside or not, but a .5db difference in the 8khz region (which we're far less sensitive too than 3-4khz), shown by measurements is definitely not proof of difference. 

 
Well, just to note...
 
I'm not sure if Purrin tried to move the wires back when he reverted your modded pair for measurements. If he didn't, it might still be there.
 
The difference is noticeable for me, and I think more likely because my sources are generally darker -> any rise would become noticeable since the whole sound is darker.
 
  So don't buy it, nobody really cares. But it's not just a 8khz difference though. There were several points of difference which may or may not sum to more than their parts. There is also more to measure than simple FR. We also don't know how it would have been affected if I measured with the grills on, but that would have been much harder to do consistently so I didn't bother. There could be also variations on how long the wires are, where they stand etc.
 
There is no way to know what Bill hears and double blind test on this matter would obviously be extremely hard to do consistently, so let's just leave it at that. But please people stop thinking black and white, like I did thinking there wouldn't even be any difference.

 
Oh yeah, I remember now. Those measurements were yours, right?
 
Thanks again for doing that. At least it confirmed I wasn't going crazy.
 
  Messing around with the wires doesn't do jack. It's all in our heads. When I put just my index fingers up next to the drivers, I have to strain to even detect a minor difference. What makes you think that a couple of tiny little wires would create enough resonance to be audibly significant? Let's just...get over it. Instead of trying to invent new voodoo in audio, just accept that the laws of physics don't change just because our head-fi mojo wants it to. I swear... 

 
Well, if fazor, which is on "top" of a surface that's already blocking the sound, can cause a difference, then again, it wouldn't be too far fetched to consider the wire having an audible effect in some cases.
 
It's really not voodoo. This is at least feasible when you consider how sound wave hitting the wire can bounce back and augment the forward-facing wave. In practice, only high frequencies will be affected by this, but then... that's just what I'm hearing.
 
The laws of physics actually would support what I'm claiming. And this is beyond the regular amp/DAC/cable voodoo, as you put it, because it's in the acoustic domain and not the usual electrical domain. If it's electrical, I'd agree that there is a lot of voodoo, but acoustical? My ears have taught me that even 1mm of thickness can make a difference. As is the case with the various mods done to the HD800.
 
Then again, it's up to you whether you would like to believe or not, of course. I'm not claiming it to be audible in general. Just that it is audible to me, and there has been some measurements on it.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 1:05 AM Post #10,609 of 21,171
I was actually going to buy these headphones just to see how I liked them compared to the HE500 I used to own. You guys put me off this purchase completely with all the talk of mods. In my humble opinion if you buy a $900 headphone it should be a completed product not requiring home made modifications. The talk of different versions out their was also not reassuring. I don't believe a $900 headphone should be a DIY project. Just my opinion.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 1:13 AM Post #10,610 of 21,171
I was actually going to buy these headphones just to see how I liked them compared to the HE500 I used to own. You guys put me off this purchase completely with all the talk of mods. In my humble opinion if you buy a $900 headphone it should be a completed product not requiring home made modifications. The talk of different versions out their was also not reassuring. I don't believe a $900 headphone should be a DIY project. Just my opinion.


i have the he560 stock & like it just fine the way it is without any additional fiddling. i prefer a warmer tube amp to pair with it as the he560 are extremely neutral & i used to be a bit more of a basshead

just bc other ppl here r modding & experimenting doesnt mean that the stock product is flawed. i find the stock he560 xtremely enjoyable esp if u r lookin for a very balanced neutral sound sig. :)
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 1:35 AM Post #10,611 of 21,171
i have the he560 stock & like it just fine the way it is without any additional fiddling. i prefer a warmer tube amp to pair with it as the he560 are extremely neutral & i used to be a bit more of a basshead

just bc other ppl here r modding & experimenting doesnt mean that the stock product is flawed. i find the stock he560 xtremely enjoyable esp if u r lookin for a very balanced neutral sound sig.
smily_headphones1.gif

Which version do you have?
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 2:30 AM Post #10,612 of 21,171
Which version do you have?


There is only one version, the current version. The preproduction version isn't available for purchase anymore, and only very few people still have them. If you talk about the batch difference, that's just very minor improvement Hifiman did as with many other manufacturers.

The earpads do make some users confusing though. The stock ones are very good. I have both the stock pads and the ones came with the preproduction 560, both are very nice, but I slightly prefer the preproduction earpads.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 2:55 AM Post #10,613 of 21,171
I don't believe a $900 headphone should be a DIY project. Just my opinion.

 
Well, any product can be a DIY project if you want it to be.  Just look at all the HD 800 mods.
 
Anyways, with my stock pair, I'm happier than a pig in schiit, not at all tempted to mod it at this time.  I don't mind reading about it though, because it shows that an already great headphone could be even better if I choose to go down that route.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 3:49 AM Post #10,614 of 21,171
I'm satisfied with the stock HE-560 sound signature. 
 
For many in the audio hobby...
 

 
It's just a fantasy
It's not the real thing,
Sometimes a fantasy...
is all they need. 
atsmile.gif
 
 
I didn't want to do the mods but I got too lonely. Why does it only seem to hit me in the middle of the night?!? 
But I really needed stimulation... ​
Though it was only my imagination...​
 
(I'm just messing with you.)​
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 5:03 AM Post #10,615 of 21,171
  Well, if fazor, which is on "top" of a surface that's already blocking the sound, can cause a difference, then again, it wouldn't be too far fetched to consider the wire having an audible effect in some cases.
 
It's really not voodoo. This is at least feasible when you consider how sound wave hitting the wire can bounce back and augment the forward-facing wave. In practice, only high frequencies will be affected by this, but then... that's just what I'm hearing.
 
The laws of physics actually would support what I'm claiming. And this is beyond the regular amp/DAC/cable voodoo, as you put it, because it's in the acoustic domain and not the usual electrical domain. If it's electrical, I'd agree that there is a lot of voodoo, but acoustical? My ears have taught me that even 1mm of thickness can make a difference. As is the case with the various mods done to the HD800.
 
Then again, it's up to you whether you would like to believe or not, of course. I'm not claiming it to be audible in general. Just that it is audible to me, and there has been some measurements on it.

1.) The fazor is has much larger dimensions than those thin little wires. 2.) The fazors are also directly attached to the drivers where they'll have the most effect, while the wires are just hanging loosely several millimeters away. 3.) The wires' positions are too far from the center of the drivers (the center is the most important, because it's the part of any headphone driver that's most directly targeted at the ear canals) to really matter. 
 
Objectively speaking the difference you think you hear is more likely than not just head-fi imagination at play.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 5:37 AM Post #10,616 of 21,171
Can I once yet point out that it was acoustically measured difference. It is possible to hear even less than 0.5dB difference, it depends on a lot of factors.
 
Granted this is a small difference, but show me a measurement where USB cables or other voodoo have any difference to actual output.
 
Probably better continue in Sound Science and not flap here gut feelings about driver centers or such stuff.
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 5:41 AM Post #10,617 of 21,171
  I was actually going to buy these headphones just to see how I liked them compared to the HE500 I used to own. You guys put me off this purchase completely with all the talk of mods. In my humble opinion if you buy a $900 headphone it should be a completed product not requiring home made modifications. The talk of different versions out their was also not reassuring. I don't believe a $900 headphone should be a DIY project. Just my opinion.


 
The stock He 560 is fin on its own, but I would say that it pairs best with an amp/dac that’s plays a bit on the full and warm side. The SQ gets notably better with a balanced cable (all I have tried so far) in my setup, but it may have more to do with the fact that my amp and dac sounds better in balanced.
 
The grill-mod is a small but notable upgrade that is very easy to do and don’t cost much. Witch of Hifiman’s pads that sound best will depend on your preference and gear. I hear pros and cons in both and have ordered a pair from MP4 Nation to see if they can do the trick of sealing better and keeping the more direct and precise image when the Focus fad A do and have less tizzy when the Focus pad.  

 
Dec 6, 2014 at 5:54 AM Post #10,618 of 21,171
Because if I can't kick ass anywhere I go, I don't go there!


Seriously, its where I spend 40+ hours a week. Might as well be able to escape stupity and do what I do.


Fix stuff.


The less I have to listen to BS, the better job I do.



Come on, are you saying everybody at work is stupid? Statistically that is highly improbable :D .
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 6:26 AM Post #10,619 of 21,171
  Can I once yet point out that it was acoustically measured difference. It is possible to hear even less than 0.5dB difference, it depends on a lot of factors.
 
Granted this is a small difference, but show me a measurement where USB cables or other voodoo have any difference to actual output.
 
Probably better continue in Sound Science and not flap here gut feelings about driver centers or such stuff.

.5dB is probably within a reasonable margin of error of measurement. You must remember that any published measurement is taken as an average of several measurements, all of which can differ from each other quite significantly, especially in the treble regions and far more than just .5dB. If you just adjust the positions of the headphone drivers relative to your ears even a smidge, your frequency response could change quite noticeably. Any "difference" you may hear/measure could just as easily be attributed to a change in driver position. 
 
That said, I'm a believer in reasonable mods. My HE-400 stock pads were jerg-modded. Even then, the difference that I heard wasn't huge, or at least not as big as upgrading to a significantly better amp imo. 
 
Dec 6, 2014 at 7:01 AM Post #10,620 of 21,171
  .5dB is probably within a reasonable margin of error of measurement. You must remember that any published measurement is taken as an average of several measurements, all of which can differ from each other quite significantly, especially in the treble regions and far more than just .5dB. If you just adjust the positions of the headphone drivers relative to your ears even a smidge, your frequency response could change quite noticeably. Any "difference" you may hear/measure could just as easily be attributed to a change in driver position. 

 
One more time. I did the measurements so the headphones did not move a millimeter on my head, like five separate times with everytime the same result. I've done this stuff a lot, any newbie should know this stuff. How about actually reading the stuff posted before instead of randomly commenting the same stuff over and over?
 
Lets stuff this thing now please. If you still want to go on about errors of measurements and driver centers, post in the sound science forum. I'll be happy to continue there. :D
 

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