[jerg]

Damn I am pumped for these!
Seeing the PM-1 rolls off the treble sooner than the LCD-X is a bit of a bummer for me... I love air, with a <12khz massive roll-off there'll be practically none ;/ Oh well, makes the choice so much easier though. 200 bucks cheaper with the baffle fixed... Bring it ;D

Huh? There is PM1 measurements out already? Nvm just saw it in the Oppo thread.

 

[cute]

Damn I am pumped for these!
Seeing the PM-1 rolls off the treble sooner than the LCD-X is a bit of a bummer for me... I love air, with a <12khz massive roll-off there'll be practically none ;/ Oh well, makes the choice so much easier though. 200 bucks cheaper with the baffle fixed... Bring it ;D

 
My feelings exactly!  Now if Oppo would participate on headfi, they may get needed feedback from the people that will actually be using their new design!

 

[conquerator2]

I have a feeling Oppo should have perhaps chosen their testers from a broader range of people. I am sure the people that did the tuning meant well.
I am also sure that the warm-neutral tuning is perhaps the "crowd pleaser" solution and there might be more people interested.
I far prefer Hifiman's 560 approach. Neutral with great extension on both ends, dynamic, with great PRaT.
I am sure mileage vary a lot in this regard. But extended treble helps with soundstage, vocals or instruments - it adds air.
Some people call it coloration, I don't. I think it makes everything more real and life like.
The HE-560/6/4 are prime examples of treble done right.
I suppose the PM-1 is more in the Audeze category, where treble is smooth and air is mostly missing.

 

[Audioclyde]

My first venture into the land of high end headphones was with the LCD-2's; I really liked their sound but could not live with them comfort wise. I sold them and had the HE-500's for quite some time; again I thought they were great to listen to, perhaps not as refined as the LCD-2's but more of a 'fun' factor and a bit more comfortable.

As you might guess from the above, I prefer things with a hint of sweetness/warmth (I also briefly had some Grado RS-2's but couldn't listen to them for long and gave 'me to my son); my amps, pre and DAC are all tube (SET amps).

I've preordered the HE-560's, as I sold the HE-500's in anticipation of buying these for the improved comfort factor. Now I'm seriously wondering if I should cancel the preorder and go with the Oppo pm-1's instead, given my preference for a bit of warmth....I actually prefer the lower sensitivity rating of the 560's in anticipation of less noise/hum issues.

I appreciate any thoughts, especially from those few individuals that have heard both the HE-560's and the Oppos....

I should add, being in Tulsa, OK, I won't have any opportunity to demo/compare these prior to purchase.

Thanks,

Randy

 

[Clemmaster]

When I first read that some beta tester were actually using the LCD-2 for reference, I stopped reading...

Not for me, not for my gears... Could well be an awesome headphone, though, but I'm not changing my setup again. The DA8 headphone amp could work :/

 

[jerg]

My first venture into the land of high end headphones was with the LCD-2's; I really liked their sound but could not live with them comfort wise. I sold them and had the HE-500's for quite some time; again I thought they were great to listen to, perhaps not as refined as the LCD-2's but more of a 'fun' factor and a bit more comfortable.

As you might guess from the above, I prefer things with a hint of sweetness/warmth (I also briefly had some Grado RS-2's but couldn't listen to them for long and gave 'me to my son); my amps, pre and DAC are all tube (SET amps).

I've preordered the HE-560's, as I sold the HE-500's in anticipation of buying these for the improved comfort factor. Now I'm seriously wondering if I should cancel the preorder and go with the Oppo pm-1's instead, given my preference for a bit of warmth....I actually prefer the lower sensitivity rating of the 560's in anticipation of less noise/hum issues.

I appreciate any thoughts, especially from those few individuals that have heard both the HE-560's and the Oppos....

I should add, being in Tulsa, OK, I won't have any opportunity to demo/compare these prior to purchase.

Thanks,

Randy

Depends on what you mean by "a bit" of warmth.

 

[Audioclyde]

Correct; these terms such as "warmth" can mean different things to each of us. Maybe a better way is describing what I want to avoid--I tend to not like equipment that has a hot or lit up top end/upper frequency range--for instance to my ears the older Bryston amps seemed to artificially emphasize the upper frequencies, they had great detail, but the top end seemed to bright for my tastes. I've also found that if equipment is lean through the mids, this can contribute to my perception that they sound a bit bleached out and lack the fullness I prefer.

So, Jerg, I don't know if that helps any in trying to describe what I'm looking for/wanting to avoid. If I could get the sound of the HE-500's after I installed your Jergpads that Modulor sent me, with what I hope (and perceive from the review comments) is the increased comfort of the 560's.

Thanks,

Randy

 

[jerg]

Correct; these terms such as "warmth" can mean different things to each of us. Maybe a better way is describing what I want to avoid--I tend to not like equipment that has a hot or lit up top end/upper frequency range--for instance to my ears the older Bryston amps seemed to artificially emphasize the upper frequencies, they had great detail, but the top end seemed to bright for my tastes. I've also found that if equipment is lean through the mids, this can contribute to my perception that they sound a bit bleached out and lack the fullness I prefer.

So, Jerg, I don't know if that helps any in trying to describe what I'm looking for/wanting to avoid. If I could get the sound of the HE-500's after I installed your Jergpads that Modulor sent me, with what I hope (and perceive from the review comments) is the increased comfort of the 560's.

Thanks,

Randy

Fundamentally I do feel that HE560s' tonal balance is not unlike my modded HE500s (with modulor jergpads). The most striking differences are the leanness/tightness of the low~mid midrange (HE560 is noticeably leaner and tighter), treble behaviour (instead of HE500's small peak at 10kHz and subsequent quick roll-off, HE560 has a minor hump around 11kHz and extending farther up), and bass overall (the two have similar bass extension, but HE560 is tighter and much more viseral than HE500).
 
Keep in mind this is with modded HE500. I think unmodded HE500 is much inferior.
 
One thing I noted is that while the new Hifiman pads share lots of traits as the latest version of Jergpads (the core Jergpad features are implemented in the new Hifiman pads, so no surprise), the new pads are a tad brighter-sounding than the Jergpads, so there may be some preference thing going on there if anyone happens to have both types of pads on hand.

 

[nicdub]

My first venture into the land of high end headphones was with the LCD-2's; I really liked their sound but could not live with them comfort wise. I sold them and had the HE-500's for quite some time; again I thought they were great to listen to, perhaps not as refined as the LCD-2's but more of a 'fun' factor and a bit more comfortable.

As you might guess from the above, I prefer things with a hint of sweetness/warmth (I also briefly had some Grado RS-2's but couldn't listen to them for long and gave 'me to my son); my amps, pre and DAC are all tube (SET amps).

I've preordered the HE-560's, as I sold the HE-500's in anticipation of buying these for the improved comfort factor. Now I'm seriously wondering if I should cancel the preorder and go with the Oppo pm-1's instead, given my preference for a bit of warmth....I actually prefer the lower sensitivity rating of the 560's in anticipation of less noise/hum issues.

I appreciate any thoughts, especially from those few individuals that have heard both the HE-560's and the Oppos....

I should add, being in Tulsa, OK, I won't have any opportunity to demo/compare these prior to purchase.

Thanks,

Randy

Nice to see a fellow Tulsan on here!

 

[tinyman392]

  Fundamentally I do feel that HE560s' tonal balance is not unlike my modded HE500s (with modulor jergpads). The most striking differences are the leanness/tightness of the low~mid midrange (HE560 is noticeably leaner and tighter), treble behaviour (instead of HE500's small peak at 10kHz and subsequent quick roll-off, HE560 has a minor hump around 11kHz and extending farther up), and bass overall (the two have similar bass extension, but HE560 is tighter and much more viseral than HE500).
 
Keep in mind this is with modded HE500. I think unmodded HE500 is much inferior.
 
One thing I noted is that while the new Hifiman pads share lots of traits as the latest version of Jergpads (the core Jergpad features are implemented in the new Hifiman pads, so no surprise), the new pads are a tad brighter-sounding than the Jergpads, so there may be some preference thing going on there if anyone happens to have both types of pads on hand.

 
I'm just curious now, have you tried the Jergpads with the 560 (if they'll fit?) or the new HiFiMan pads with the 500?  Seems like an interesting comparison.  It'd take the pads out of the equation and probably might yield better differences between the headphones. 

 

[jerg]

   
I'm just curious now, have you tried the Jergpads with the 560 (if they'll fit?) or the new HiFiMan pads with the 500?  Seems like an interesting comparison.  It'd take the pads out of the equation and probably might yield better differences between the headphones. 

Of course I did; that's where I yielded those conclusions. You thought I compared the earpads without swapping them? Haha.

 

[conquerator2]

So is the 560s midrange full and balanced with the rest?
You say it's leaner than the 500s midrange but I can't really draw comparisons there cause I haven't heard them.
It's not in any way recessed, is it?
Thanks.

 

[tinyman392]

  Of course I did; that's where I yielded those conclusions. You thought I compared the earpads without swapping them? Haha.

 
I thought you were comparing the HE-560 (with new pads) and the HE-500 (with the Jergpads). 

 

[jerg]

So is the 560s midrange full and balanced with the rest?
You say it's leaner than the 500s midrange but I can't really draw comparisons there cause I haven't heard them.
It's not in any way recessed, is it?
Thanks.

You have to understand that there are two aspects to how a transducer produces sound at a particular frequency: the amplitude and the temporal decay. If two drivers have the exact same amplitude at a certain frequency or range of frequencies, but one decays slower than the other, then the slower one will sound more reverberant and less speedy (slower transients, as some call it) than the other transducer at that particular frequency/range.
 
By lean, I mean 560's low-mid midrange seems to decay faster than 500. Both behave similarly in terms of amplitude (aka FR) though.
 
 
 

   
I thought you were comparing the HE-560 (with new pads) and the HE-500 (with the Jergpads). 
 

Largely yes, but to compare the earpads specifically, I did swap-arounds. I just didn't officially post much about the earpads comparatively because I think it's too early.

 

[conquerator2]

You have to understand that there are two aspects to how a transducer produces sound at a particular frequency: the amplitude and the temporal decay. If two drivers have the exact same amplitude at a certain frequency or range of frequencies, but one decays slower than the other, then the slower one will sound more reverberant and less speedy (slower transients, as some call it) than the other transducer at that particular frequency/range.

By lean, I mean 560's low-mid midrange seems to decay faster than 500. Both behave similarly in terms of amplitude (aka FR) though.

Thanks for the explanation.
I take it as no recession then