[conquerator2]

  It's not illogical at all.  How many times do you look at posts on head-fi from headphone apologists claiming the reason people are complaining of stridence and sibilance on a headphone is because it's 'revealing?'  More often than not they're making an excuse for it having an elevated treble that's not too uncommon with detail-centric audiophile gear.  People associated elevated treble with more detail and definition.  The focus pads are just another example of that, providing an even larger peak at 4khz which a lot of people-- even Jude himself, considered to be even more detailed and transparent when they first heard the production 560.
 
Quite a lot of classical orchestral recordings and jazz recordings are mid-centric, so the treble spike on many of those audiophile headphone is seen as a nice sparkle to lift them up, even though it's still a coloration regardless.  Take that same kind of elevated treble and apply it to a more modernized-type of recording that's slightly hot and/or brickwalled, and chances are it'll sound wildly bright (HD800, HE-400, DT990, Grados, etc).
 
The 560 (with focus-a) is not as pronounced in the upper treble as some of those other offerings, and I find it considerably more tolerable for poorer recordings.
 
Of course there's no getting around garbage-in, garbage-out, but going around reading a lot of posts on head-fi often gives you the feeling that people are blaming the recordings more than they should be, when they need to be blaming the coloration of their headphones more.

I agree. I don't really hear any harshness with the production Focus pads but I won't argue that the Focus-As are smoother.
I believe regardless of pads, the 560 has a very well dome treble and midrange that doesn't highlight harshness much and sounds very good in general.
Pads differences aside...

 

[olegausany]

Sorry double post using phone

 

[tuna47]

I am suggesting that the 560 are not hot headphones I found the he 560 to be very tizzy in treble I sold them of course a headphone can ruin music I just do not think that the 560 are 1 of those phones and deserve to be fed steal not mush
Now I love old rock and roll and do listen to it but do not think it does the 560 justice

 

[jerg]

I am suggesting that the 560 are not hot headphones I found the he 560 to be very tizzy in treble I sold them of course a headphone can ruin music I just do not think that the 560 are 1 of those phones and deserve to be fed steal not mush
Now I love old rock and roll and do listen to it but do not think it does the 560 justice

Are you using speech-to-text for making these posts tuna? They are very hard to understand...

 

[tuna47]

No just typing fast and not proof reading

 

[YtseJamer]

Just tried latest Opeth album mentioned earlier (Flac of course ) with HD800 and HE-560 using moded SEX amp, while HA-1 just a Dac, and it sounds more detailed with HD800 than with HE-560. Both headphones use Vanquish cable with appropriate adapters and since SEX was used single ended appropriate adapter made with Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3 cable was used

 
Does the album sound better on the HD800 or on the HE-560 ?
 
The cd/blu-ray version featuring 5.1 mix will be available next week on Amazon.

 

[olegausany]

When using SEX amp it sounds better with HD800 but if you use HA-1 HE-560 sound so close so it's just personal preference which one is better. For now I'm keeping both headphones, the only reason I would sell them if I would get a chance to compare HD800 to T1 and find out that I prefer T1

 

[mandrake50]

  It's not illogical at all.  How many times do you look at posts on head-fi from headphone apologists claiming the reason people are complaining of stridence and sibilance on a headphone is because it's 'revealing?'  More often than not they're making an excuse for it having an elevated treble that's not too uncommon with detail-centric audiophile gear.  People associated elevated treble with more detail and definition.  The focus pads are just another example of that, providing an even larger peak at 4khz which a lot of people-- even Jude himself, considered to be even more detailed and transparent when they first heard the production 560.
 
Quite a lot of classical orchestral recordings and jazz recordings are mid-centric, so the treble spike on many of those audiophile headphone is seen as a nice sparkle to lift them up, even though it's still a coloration regardless.  Take that same kind of elevated treble and apply it to a more modernized-type of recording that's slightly hot and/or brickwalled, and chances are it'll sound wildly bright (HD800, HE-400, DT990, Grados, etc).
 
The 560 (with focus-a) is not as pronounced in the upper treble as some of those other offerings, and I find it considerably more tolerable for poorer recordings.
 
Of course there's no getting around garbage-in, garbage-out, but going around reading a lot of posts on head-fi often gives you the feeling that people are blaming the recordings more than they should be, when they need to be blaming the coloration of their headphones more.

Head

  It's not illogical at all.  How many times do you look at posts on head-fi from headphone apologists claiming the reason people are complaining of stridence and sibilance on a headphone is because it's 'revealing?'  More often than not they're making an excuse for it having an elevated treble that's not too uncommon with detail-centric audiophile gear.  People associated elevated treble with more detail and definition.  The focus pads are just another example of that, providing an even larger peak at 4khz which a lot of people-- even Jude himself, considered to be even more detailed and transparent when they first heard the production 560.
 
Quite a lot of classical orchestral recordings and jazz recordings are mid-centric, so the treble spike on many of those audiophile headphone is seen as a nice sparkle to lift them up, even though it's still a coloration regardless.  Take that same kind of elevated treble and apply it to a more modernized-type of recording that's slightly hot and/or brickwalled, and chances are it'll sound wildly bright (HD800, HE-400, DT990, Grados, etc).
 
The 560 (with focus-a) is not as pronounced in the upper treble as some of those other offerings, and I find it considerably more tolerable for poorer recordings.
 
Of course there's no getting around garbage-in, garbage-out, but going around reading a lot of posts on head-fi often gives you the feeling that people are blaming the recordings more than they should be, when they need to be blaming the coloration of their headphones more.

HeadFi is riddled with illogical  statements. Perception of sound seems to defy logic. Saying that there are lot of them is not proof of logic. Audio is a very personal thing. Not only is it based on ears... it is based on brains, each of which is different.. very unique, and will never be experienced through words by another human being. That being said, calling a headphone flawed because it reveals ...or does not hide, flaws in the source, is illogical. If 10 billion people say this every day, it may be considered "common thought" , but it is not logic! It is some collection of subjective comments, no more. Certainly not any proof of logic! Humans are subjective creatures... logic not the first option!
 
This is why I have been a member since 2007 and posted 80 times. I hate this kind of discussion. I am out on this one, for sure!

 

[TMRaven]

  This is why I have been a member since 2007 and posted 80 times. I hate this kind of discussion. I am out on this one, for sure!

 
 
Good.
 
 
 
All I can say is I would have never realized the HE-400 I owned for two years had a large and gross treble spike if I listened to beethoven and jazz at the pawnshop recordings all day long.  Not only do those types of headphones reveal flaws in less than optimal recordings, they magnify them. 
 
 
Likewise with the HE-560, when I first got the preorder 560 months back, all seemed very right to me in the treble, until I played some modern pop songs and realized that the 560 has some hardness in its lower treble, a little too much from time to time.

 

[Bill-P]

On that note... I have had some good time with my HE-560, so I would like to share some impressions...
 
1) They are highly dependent on amping and also dependent on the amount of current that the amp can push. Less current = bass distortion. And the distortion can get quite ugly.
2) On that note, I have heard them with silky smooth treble out of a solid state amp, and with harsh and hard treble out of a tube amp (Schiit Lyr 2 to the spotlight here), so it's not a general rule of thumb that tubes = smoother treble and solid states = harsher/harder treble for these. I have generally found mine to be far smoother out of solid-state amps that can push a lot of current.
3) Soundstage is also highly dependent on source. Some sources cause the soundstage to collapse completely and then the soundstage is marginally better than the HE-500 at depth, but give them the right amp, and they will give you that big soundstage.
4) Bass is also very highly dependent on sources. I have found that... with certain songs, the current demand from the headphone is way too big, and if the amp cannot cope, there will be either distortion, or less bass in general. Feed them current. A LOT (and by that, I really mean... a LOT more than other orthos except for the HE-6) of that and the bass comes alive. Visceral, weighty, and with very good definition. It's not at all "too tight".
 
So personally, I am very happy with my HE-560 (thanks to GrizzlyBeast!). But had I not have the opportunity to explore different amp options, I would be stuck thinking this is just another pair of planar magnetic pair of cans that are too subdued to deliver what they can.
 
Quick comparison against HE-500:
 
1) HE-560 is obviously less efficient.
2) HE-560 does not sound smoothed over with upper midrange frequencies. HE-500 sounds subdued and sibilant at the same time to my ears. Possibly the lower treble peak at work here.
3) HE-560 has a much deeper and wider soundstage
4) Comfort is undoubtedly better on the HE-560
 
Quick comparison against LFF Enigmas: (side note: these headphones sound more similar than not)
 
1) Enigma is darker, and a bit more smoothed over (I wonder if the Focus Pad-A would cause the HE-560 to sound like this)
2) HE-560 is more open, effortless, and has a blacker soundstage. The Enigma exhibits a sort of faint hiss to its soundstage.
3) Both are equal in terms of frequency response as nothing truly stands out.
4) HE-560 is far more comfortable than the Enigma
5) The Enigma is magnitudes more efficient than HE-560
6) Enigma has tighter, quicker bass than HE-560, but yet it sounds thinner at the same time. HE-560 delivers tons of body to everything from bass to vocal.
7) Soundstage is fairly deep and decently wide with Enigma. HE-560 is a bit wider, but also sounds more open due to its design
8) Despite being more efficient, Enigma is still picky with regards to amping. Drive them out of a thin amp and they can get quite thin and lean... with nary any bass at all (Schiit Lyr 2 to the spotlight again). But drive them out of a warm and weighty amp, and they sound pretty decent. HE-560, in light of that, doesn't quite change its sound signature so significantly like that. Instead, it just becomes more docile. Give both headphones the right amp and it's a party.
9) Enigma has a slight tendency to become more sibilant than HE-560
10) Enigma isolates far better than HE-560, being closed-back and at the same time boasting thick ear pads and strong clamping force
11) Neither headphone seems to like bright sources. The Enigma is too sibilant out of a bright source while the HE-560 suffers from treble "white-out" (or excessive treble energy from my perspective)
12) With regards to vocals, I have to give the HE-560 the "edge" here (no pun intended). It is able to present a smoother, less grainy, more defined, dimensional and clean midrange than Enigma. The Enigma has excess warmth that cause vocals to become slightly nasal and quite congested. The midrange on the HE-560 is slightly sweet, and the tonality is just so right. I have been an Audio Technica fan for years, and though I still enjoy a euphoric midrange, the tonality of the HE-560 is so right that I have to hand it to them for being the reference. I surprisingly don't find my Audio Technica headphones "sweet" anymore for the same songs. Yes, vocal is really that much better on the HE-560 to my ears. This is the definitive quality that one can use to distinguish between these 2 headphones.
 
Overall, I prefer the open design and comfort of the HE-560. I dread their amping requirements, but all in all, I guess I can live with that since I am enjoying the HE-560 so much. It has been a very worthy addition to my collection.

 

[money4me247]

 
You need to look at it both ways.  Poor recordings can also review flaws in colored headphones.  Almost everybody on head-fi seems to have this misconception that a forgiving headphone has to be a colored one.  The truer statement is more along the lines of:  a forgiving headphone is one that isn't so colored.  

that doesn't make sense. if an accurate pair of headphones plays a poorly mastered track, you should be able to hear all the flaws.
 
if you are playing a poorly mastered track and cannot hear any flaws, the headphones obviously are not accurate in reproducing the sound. hence, there obviously has to be some sort of coloration or distortion that masks the flaws.
 
it's like using a very detailed camera vs a blurry camera for a self-portrait. the blurry camera may not pick up on all the wrinkles and blemishes of your face, so it looks nicer... but obviously, it is simply not capturing all the details of the source.

 

[money4me247]

  It's not illogical at all.  How many times do you look at posts on head-fi from headphone apologists claiming the reason people are complaining of stridence and sibilance on a headphone is because it's 'revealing?'  More often than not they're making an excuse for it having an elevated treble that's not too uncommon with detail-centric audiophile gear.  People associated elevated treble with more detail and definition.  The focus pads are just another example of that, providing an even larger peak at 4khz which a lot of people-- even Jude himself, considered to be even more detailed and transparent when they first heard the production 560.
 
Quite a lot of classical orchestral recordings and jazz recordings are mid-centric, so the treble spike on many of those audiophile headphone is seen as a nice sparkle to lift them up, even though it's still a coloration regardless.  Take that same kind of elevated treble and apply it to a more modernized-type of recording that's slightly hot and/or brickwalled, and chances are it'll sound wildly bright (HD800, HE-400, DT990, Grados, etc).
 
The 560 (with focus-a) is not as pronounced in the upper treble as some of those other offerings, and I find it considerably more tolerable for poorer recordings.
 
Of course there's no getting around garbage-in, garbage-out, but going around reading a lot of posts on head-fi often gives you the feeling that people are blaming the recordings more than they should be, when they need to be blaming the coloration of their headphones more.

  Good.
 
All I can say is I would have never realized the HE-400 I owned for two years had a large and gross treble spike if I listened to beethoven and jazz at the pawnshop recordings all day long.  Not only do those types of headphones reveal flaws in less than optimal recordings, they magnify them. 
 
Likewise with the HE-560, when I first got the preorder 560 months back, all seemed very right to me in the treble, until I played some modern pop songs and realized that the 560 has some hardness in its lower treble, a little too much from time to time.

 
I think that sounds like a matter of preference now. Different people have different ideas what ideal treble sounds like. People have different expectations of what a track 'should' sound like and often the fact that the source file does not sound like their 'imagined ideal sound' with a certain pair of headphones seems to just be a matter of preference.
 
But for your point, I own the HE-400 and I only noticed sibilance issues with one specific part in two tracks in my collection. To blame the headphones seems silly when all the other tracks I listen to sound perfectly fine. This point is further illustrated when you take another pair of headphones and listen to that segment closely, you can hear that extra brightness in the original recording that gets specifically worsened with the he-400. May not be as noticeable with other headphones, but that distortion is present in the original source file. The tracks that I find too bright, always sound too bright. Doesn't matter what headphone filter you pass over it, the treble of the problem areas of those songs are simply too elevated compared to the rest of the music.

 

[eugenius]

  I'm sort of bummed that there's considerably large imbalance <1khz for the money. 

 I've tried now with different pads, without grills etc it's clear none of them are are affecting it. Right side is always ~2dB less with some funny 300&500hz drops. Measured my drivers 41.1 & 42.2 ohms.
 

 
No!!! Oh god no!!! Hot spikes are inside my eyeballs!!! My eyes, they are burning!!!!

 

[Ron12]

   
No!!! Oh god no!!! Hot spikes are inside my eyeballs!!! My eyes, they are burning!!!!

It's not compensated AFAIK... But the imbalance is not good at all. I can only hope that this is not a standard with HE-560.

 

[eugenius]

Measure a HD600 on the same rig hekeli. It's good to have a reference.