[doctorjazz]

I find the 560 bright as well, when not amped well. Didn't note it with the RSA-HR2 or the Liquid Carbon. My favorite was the MicrZOTL2, left the other 2 unplayed (and the RSA sold). Then I got the HEK v2, now just keep the 560 around to compare to other headphones in a similar class.

 

[ScareDe2]

I wonder how much of that is the tubes. Personally, running both the LCD-2F and 560 through the Black Label, I find the 560 neutral bright or slightly v-shaped (with the bass boost on), with noticeably better treble air and soundstage than the LCD-2F, which I would call warmer. Interesting. Thanks for your take on these two.

Yes I just want to add that I use the lisst tubes at the moment and I believe the Lyr 2 sounds reasonably neutral on its own. And I agree the LCD2 is clostrophobicly dark, small soundstage, no air, attenuated treble and big tight visceral bass that extend very deep.

I am curious to understand if it's the dry mids that give more room for the treble to "shine" with the HE560. Also I am a bit confused about the definition of bright here. A v-shaped sound doesn't match my definition of bright. I think bright is something like the grados, when you have poor bass and spikes in the upper regions. I think the HE560 has a slightly unfocused but present bass, with a shy extention (little sub bass) and that the brightness is just an illusion from the relation between the mids and the treble. If that makes sens. Since there is no air, or very little, I can't believe the treble is bright here.

We need a frequency graph

 

[TimeSnow]

Having now used the ifi Nano BL against three Chord for a few hours I was shocked at how much different the two sounded.

Which is good as long as you're willing to find the right amp and DAC to match YOUR taste.

I can easily see how certain genres of music and tastes would suit certain amps.

I can also easily see my ears burning in with either style of amp.

 

[phthora]

Yes I just want to add that I use the lisst tubes at the moment and I believe the Lyr 2 sounds reasonably neutral on its own. And I agree the LCD2 is clostrophobicly dark, small soundstage, no air, attenuated treble and big tight visceral bass that extend very deep.

I am curious to understand if it's the dry mids that give more room for the treble to "shine" with the HE560. Also I am a bit confused about the definition of bright here. A v-shaped sound doesn't match my definition of bright. I think bright is something like the grados, when you have poor bass and spikes in the upper regions. I think the HE560 has a slightly unfocused but present bass, with a shy extention (little sub bass) and that the brightness is just an illusion from the relation between the mids and the treble. If that makes sens. Since there is no air, or very little, I can't believe the treble is bright here.

We need a frequency graph

It seems like we're hearing the same thing, but have a different understanding of 'bright.' I thought the 560's were bright when I bought them, but after listening to them a while, I wouldn't use that word to describe them. Something like extended or prominent in the treble, perhaps. But then, 'bright' always seemed sort of pejorative, like 'dark.' Anyway, I happen to agree with what you've said above, at least in comparing the two. So, it's likely just down to the vague definitions of these terms.

What does throw me is the description of the bass as 'unfocused' or having 'little sub bass,' that hasn't been my experience really. Or, I should say, of the four 560's I've heard, two of them had excellent bass extension, texture, and clarity, to the point that the LCD-2F were initially disappointing to me. Solid state vs tubes, perhaps? I haven't had much experience with the latter, I'm afraid, but these cans are pretty amp-picky.

 

[FredA]

I owned the nfb1 for a bit. When my bw2 arrived I couldn’t believe how crappy the nfb1 really was. From memory the carbon wasn’t much better. Moving forward I came across a vidar/ saga combo and thought I’d give it a try. The tube pre really does help the 560’s. I found the vidar to be more detailed, and had better driver grip. Bass extension was better, and the saga added a level of transparency and everything was more cohesive than what the bw2 offered. So the bw2 is no longer here and strictly the vidar for planars. There’s a bit of low level hum in tube mode, but Not noticeable with music playing.

I love my crappy nfb-1 combined to my even crappier R2r 7.

Joke aside, IMO, a headphone set like the he-560 will pretty much play what the source sends as is provided the amp is transparent and can drive them. So i would say that you are left with the sound of your source, for good or bad. But it is just my opinion.

 

[DavidA]

I wonder how much of that is the tubes. Personally, running both the LCD-2F and 560 through the Black Label, I find the 560 neutral bright or slightly v-shaped (with the bass boost on), with noticeably better treble air and soundstage than the LCD-2F, which I would call warmer. Interesting. Thanks for your take on these two.

I think the tubes make a noticeable difference and the HE560 is more sensitive to different amps than the LCD-2f to me. I'm like @ScareDe2 and use a Lyr2 for the HE560 and either UD-301 headphone output or Ember for the LCD-2f. The HE560 has more high-mids / lower treble energy than the LCD-2f so it might sound brighter with some tracks and the LCD-2f is a little more forgiving of bad/poor recordings where the HE560 is not very forgiving.

 

[FredA]

I think the tubes make a noticeable difference and the HE560 is more sensitive to different amps than the LCD-2f to me. I'm like @ScareDe2 and use a Lyr2 for the HE560 and either UD-301 headphone output or Ember for the LCD-2f. The HE560 has more high-mids / lower treble energy than the LCD-2f so it might sound brighter with some tracks and the LCD-2f is a little more forgiving of bad/poor recordings where the HE560 is not very forgiving.

Funny, they really sound neutral too me. I have pretty much the same balance as with my dead neutral speakers, which again sound like whatever is connected upstream. But given different ear size and shapes, headphone will sound differently from one person to another.

 

[peter123]

What does throw me is the description of the bass as 'unfocused' or having 'little sub bass,' that hasn't been my experience really.

I totally agree with this. After using the HE560 exclusively for a couple of months and then getting the HD800S the first thing I noticed was that the HE560 actually have tighter and better defined bass and the HD800S is very good in this area.

Fwiw the HE560 are my bass head cans

My guess is that it's the tubes that makes the bass feel undefined and not having enough subbass rumble for @FredA....

 

[phthora]

Funny, they really sound neutral too me. I have pretty much the same balance as with my dead neutral speakers, which again sound like whatever is connected upstream. But given different ear size and shapes, headphone will sound differently from one person to another.

True. And I wouldn't argue against neutral too hard anyway. For me, they need about 1-2 db more in the mids and 1-2 db less in the treble to be neutral, maybe even a bit less sub-bass. (Speaking, very broadly of course.) Likely, I wouldn't think the 560 needed those adjustments to be neutral if I hadn't heard the MrSpeakers AEON C, which to me is perfectly neutral.

 

[SBranson]

The output impedance of the amp has quite an effect on the sound as well. I had a CEntrance Hifi m8 that had a variable output impedance switch and it made a strong impact to the sound. This could help explain the differences in those who call these bright vs not or those not getting the bass.

 

[SBranson]

I wrote these back in the summer of 2014 with my first pair of HE560s...

"My CEntrance HiFi-M8 has a cool feature of being able to change the output impedance. Set on 1 or 2 ohms, the detail and brightness increase dramatically, which I think should be the proper setting for these but it tends to push voices forward. On the 10ohm, which supposedly "smooths" things out takes away that treble edge and pushes the vocals back to the rest of the music.
It will definitely inform my next choice of amp.. On the 10ohm, the focus pads are best.. the 1 and 2, the focus-A..
btw, I don't eq at all." ...


"From playing with the impedance settings on my CEntrance, it could be matching with the amp that's providing these differing opinions of the treble. On the low impedance settings I can get a bit of the "tizz" as well. But on the higher impedance settings, that goes away, as well as some of the sparkle. I think the HE560s are very receptive to what's feeding them so there will be wide variations on the opinion of their sound."

 

[SBranson]

Talk about scaling well... I just got a used AK300 and I’m astounded at all the extra information I’m hearing. I can’t wait until my balanced cable arrives.
I was concerned that the AK300 wouldn’t have the power for these but even without the desktop amp the he560/ak300 sounds fantastic. Some recordings are just about at max volume but most are about 3/4.

 

[SAndreev]

Tried ZMF Universe pads (http://www.zmfheadphones.com/pads-and-cables/zmf-universe-pads) with my 560 today (usually I have Ori pads fitted). They are a bit thinner, less angled and just a tad bigger in diameter. My first impression was that in comparison to Ori pads the 560 sound a bit brighter while still maintaining meaty bass (while still well controlled due to planar nature of the headphone). For now I put the Ori pads back on, as I don't like this light brightness, but I'll try to do more comparisons (with stock pads as well) and post an update. The Universe pads were bought for D7200, but it didn't work as I expected.

 

[SBranson]

Tried ZMF Universe pads (http://www.zmfheadphones.com/pads-and-cables/zmf-universe-pads) with my 560 today (usually I have Ori pads fitted). They are a bit thinner, less angled and just a tad bigger in diameter. My first impression was that in comparison to Ori pads the 560 sound a bit brighter while still maintaining meaty bass (while still well controlled due to planar nature of the headphone). For now I put the Ori pads back on, as I don't like this light brightness, but I'll try to do more comparisons (with stock pads as well) and post an update. The Universe pads were bought for D7200, but it didn't work as I expected.

Have you tried the focus A pads but remove the film from the opening? I found this the best. I have the perforated Ori pads as well but don't like them as much though I suspect if I removed their film I would like them more. (don't want to ruin the possible resale value though) Then again, I'm a bit older and less sensitive to highs.

 

[Brahmsian]

These headphones keep knocking my socks off listening to ECM jazz recordings these past couple of weeks. Doing so without an amp, too, just connected to my MacBook's headphone jack. I'm sorry, but you can get great sound on these headphones even without an amp.

Also appreciating the soundstage more and more. It's not one of those three-blob affairs but a very coherent and well integrated space that opens up in your head in quite a complex way. With the right recording of course.

Highly recommend the ECM label to you HE560-owning jazz lovers out there. Great synergy between the way that label records and the 560.