[jerg]

Quote:

 
 Way I see it - 2012 is the year of the magnetic planar - but not for the reasons you might imagine.
 
 As everybody knows HiFi-Man and Audeze have had their gear on the market for a few years now, what interests me is that up until
 now the big Hi-Fi boys have yet to really award any adulation - The What Hi Fi, Stereo Choice, <Add your favorite International
 Publication Here> seems to have remained tight lipped.
 
 I spent a bit of time trying to find any respectable magazine or long standing audio-gear review body that has heaped praise on
 the new of magnetic planars and without trying to get a rise out of the planar fan boys - I found nothing - squat, nada, zero.
 
 This presents with an interesting scenario now for 2012 - Will this be the year that these magazines and their critics finally
 sign in with all the Head-Fi praise, have the Hi-Fi guys just been bottling it up waiting to unleash a tidal wave of awards?
 
 Given this HUGE disparity of acclaim between the Head-Fi world and the land of Hi-Fi and assuming that this year is
 not the year of the magnetic planar, then we're faced with only two logical possibilities :-
 
 1) It's all a conspiracy - The Hi-Fi mags refuse to acknowledge the superiority from HiFiMan and Audeze's efforts, through a secret
 intricate underbelly of collusion - the likes of AKG, Sennheiser and Grado will continue to collect awards and the worthy
 new contenders will again be shunned - forever damned to live in the shadows as mere curious artefacts of audio technology.
 This cover up is so large and ingrained - it puts the 9/11 conspirators to shame.
 
 or
 
 2) How about getting off the Head-Fi hype train and actually thinking about why this is so? Maybe, just maybe - guys who
 earn a living listening to $30,000 speakers all day - don't actually think much of these magnetic planars and actually prefer
 other current dynamic offerings.
 
 Let's see what happens towards the end of 2012.

 
Haha good read.
 
Most people here don't give a jack about hi-fi journalism though, except very specific headphone reviewers who also keep a close presence here on the forums. Everything here is rated by word-of-mouth and collective opinion, which of course gets affected and distorted greatly by subjectivity and hype, as well as lack of experience of other comparable headphones. However that makes it all the more interesting. Hey if there are definitive no-argument winners in each price bracket then there is no point for this website except "(brandname) fan threads".

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

 
Haha good read.
 
Most people here don't give a jack about hi-fi journalism though, except very specific headphone reviewers who also keep a close presence here on the forums. Everything here is rated by word-of-mouth and collective opinion, which of course gets affected and distorted greatly by subjectivity and hype, as well as lack of experience of other comparable headphones. However that makes it all the more interesting. Hey if there are definitive no-argument winners in each price bracket then there is no point for this website except "(brandname) fan threads".

 
 It certainly does conjure up absolutely absurd situations in real life - I was at my local audio store awhile back and
 this gentleman was auditioning the usual $400-$500 round-up of headphones - Q701, HD650, DT880 and he was also
 looking at the T70. To cut a long story short, he ended up with the T70 after a lengthy audition, he was just about
 to whip out the plastic when he turned to one of the sales guys and said
 
 'Look, I'm pretty sure this T70 is going to be what I want along with this accompanying DAC and Amp
 I've selected but I cannot help but think of the second best headphone on the market according to Head-Fi'
 
 'Any chance I can listen to the Audio Technica M50 to see if it's any better?'
 
 <slap self> 

 

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
 It certainly does conjure up absolutely absurd situations in real life - I was at my local audio store awhile back and
 this gentleman was auditioning the usual $400-$500 round-up of headphones - Q701, HD650, DT880 and he was also
 looking at the T70. To cut a long story short, he ended up with the T70 after a lengthy audition, he was just about
 to whip out the plastic when he turned to one of the sales guys and said
 
 'Look, I'm pretty sure this T70 is going to be what I want along with this accompanying DAC and Amp
 I've selected but I cannot help but think of the second best headphone on the market according to Head-Fi'
 
 'Any chance I can listen to the Audio Technica M50 to see if it's any better?'
 
 <slap self> 

 

As usual opinions toward entry-level headphones have the least credibility here, simply because most people reviewing them don't have extensive experience with mid/hi-fi gear, or even with other entry-level cans. Once you move up to mid-fi there is a lot more objective comparisons drawn that are free from lack of experience with a variety of cans, and going into high-end most people have gone long enough of a way through this hobby to state their objective opinions with confidence.
 
Shame that people with upwards of $400 in budget who are completely new to headphones tend to disregard price brackets.

 

[dleblanc343]

By the way we carry the HE400 at our store here in Montreal. Feel free to visit and try them out!
 
Quote:

 


I agree,altough they have departed from the ''Grado house sound'' with the GS-1000 the PS-500/1000.
 
By the way,i see you have the HE-400,i had a chance to listen to them at,the Montréal Son et Image festival,and i was very impressed by them,especially at the price they go for.

 

 

[stacker45]

Quote:

By the way we carry the HE400 at our store here in Montreal. Feel free to visit and try them out!
 


 

And wich store would that be?
 

 

[customNuts]

Quote:

As usual opinions toward entry-level headphones have the least credibility here, simply because most people reviewing them don't have extensive experience with mid/hi-fi gear, or even with other entry-level cans. Once you move up to mid-fi there is a lot more objective comparisons drawn that are free from lack of experience with a variety of cans, and going into high-end most people have gone long enough of a way through this hobby to state their objective opinions with confidence.
 
Shame that people with upwards of $400 in budget who are completely new to headphones tend to disregard price brackets.

Isn't that the truth!
 
 

 

[Gradofan2]

 
Quote:

Agree with this completely. Boggle's me how Grado can charge so much.

 
It's quite simple...
 
Because... with a well matched source and amp (which matches their impedance and sensitivity requirements)... they sound as good, or better (in most cases), than any phones available... including the best planars and stats (based on my experience with most) - depending upon the user's preferences.    I wouldn't recommend them for "newbe's / noob's," who are "bassheads" into "hip-hop" and "car audio" - only to those with refined preferences (moreso the HD800 / O2 types).    
 
How "current" their technology is... is totally irrelevant - how their technology is "applied" to achieve the results they do... is all that matters.  
 

 

[Focker]

Quote:

 
 
It's quite simple...
 
Because... with a well matched source and amp (which matches their impedance and sensitivity requirements)... they sound as good, or better (in most cases), than any phones available... including the best planars and stats (based on my experience with most) - depending upon the user's preferences.    I wouldn't recommend them for "newbe's / noob's," who are "bassheads" into "hip-hop" and "car audio" - only to those with refined preferences (moreso the HD800 / O2 types).    
 
How "current" their technology is... is totally irrelevant - how their technology is "applied" to achieve the results they do... is all that matters.  
 

Well said.

 

[Gwarmi]

 
 And just to add some picture weight to what GradoFan2 said

 (No not doctored by me! It's from a Hong Kong reseller's page)
 
 

 

[thelostMIDrange]

I'd recommend the 500's to the OP. Why not choose the headphone that was designed to sound good without thousands of dollars of ancialliary gear. As far as I'm concerned any headphone over 60 ohms is poorly designed. I understand why, as the makers are searching for that extra 'fidelity', soundstage, etc and low ohm drivers can struggle with that, but lucky for them, what a great scapegoat scenario it also is - i.e., to build a headphone and then say, well if it's not to your liking, you just have the wrong amp or one that's not expensive enough, then the headphone will sound good. What a rabbit hole that is. It's like designing a _____A_____ and then say, well, it's not complete yet, the buyer has to find _______B_____to perfectly mate up with it and then it will be a final product. This forum is largely the attempt to get people chasing their tails to find B at the expense of alot of time and money. And as long as people support companies that build unfinished products, they will continue to make them. Grado at least got that right in their decision to focus on 32 ohm cans and maximize the potential of such a thing. I'm not a fan of sr or rs series grado but the 500 and hf2 are excellent for 20th century 'traditional' music. One of the few natural options left. Yes despite the e/q curve, the actual sound produced for guitar, bass, drum, piano, horns, vocal etc is quite natural, and enjoyable to listen to with a nice balance of 'color', detail, punch, accuracy, comfort, price, smoothness/edge. The grado is not an analytical phone or for electronic music I agree. It is a one trick poney- for reproducing music made by humans. And because that's the only pony I ride, it's all good. The magnum driver variant is another attempt at the new grado sound - i.e. grado presentation with some senn smoothness and lushness. I feel it's a bit more colored sound even than grado however but in trade it has more clarity and a clearer background than the 500/hf2. The hifiman I had was not too appealing to me, but then again, I'm sure it was because I didn't have the proper amp/dac/source/cable etc

 

[fenderf4i]

 
Quote:

I'd recommend the 500's to the OP. Why not choose the headphone that was designed to sound good without thousands of dollars of ancialliary gear. As far as I'm concerned any headphone over 60 ohms is poorly designed. I understand why, as the makers are searching for that extra 'fidelity', soundstage, etc and low ohm drivers can struggle with that, but lucky for them, what a great scapegoat scenario it also is - i.e., to build a headphone and then say, well if it's not to your liking, you just have the wrong amp or one that's not expensive enough, then the headphone will sound good. What a rabbit hole that is. It's like designing a _____A_____ and then say, well, it's not complete yet, the buyer has to find _______B_____to perfectly mate up with it and then it will be a final product. This forum is largely the attempt to get people chasing their tails to find B at the expense of alot of time and money. And as long as people support companies that build unfinished products, they will continue to make them. Grado at least got that right in their decision to focus on 32 ohm cans and maximize the potential of such a thing. I'm not a fan or sr or rs series grado but the 500 and hf2 are excellent cans for 20th century 'traditional' music. One of the few natural options left. Yes despite the e/q curve, the actual sound produced for guitar, bass, drum, piano, horns, vocal etc is quite natural, and enjoyable to listen to with a nice balance of 'color', detail, punch, accuracy, comfort, price, smoothness/edge. The grado is not an analytical phone or for electronic music I agree. It is a one trick poney- for reproducing music made by humans. And because that's the only pony I ride, it's all good. The magnum driver variant is another attempt at the grado sound with some senn smoothness and lushness. I feel it's a bit more colored sound even than grado however but in trade it has more clarity and a clearer background than the 500/hf2. The hifiman I had was not too appealing to me, but then again, I'm sure it was because I didn't have the proper amp/dac/source/cable etc

 
I totally agree with everything you say.

 

[dleblanc343]

The ps500's are definitely better without amplification, but you can't compare it to the HE500's at all through an amp, even if it's not the most expensive thing in the world.
 
I had fun on lunch break at work with the ps500's and he400/500's with the hifiman ef2a, ef5, nuforce hdp and some rotel power amps (we don't really carry headphone amps unfortunately). The ps500's fell short in terms of scalability to both the planars, no matter what they were paired with; totally expected. I've got to admit it though, the ps500's out of my ipod is amazing, plug and play and you're ready to go. If grado could manage to make closed headphones, they would explode in popularity and I would definitely take a closed styled ps500 as a portable headphone.
 
Also played around with the gs1000's and ps1000's. Completely different story. I still prefer the sound sig of the HE500 though, but the ps1000's are the best reference headphone I've heard to date (if you have recording in mind).

 

[thelostMIDrange]

better is one of those tricky words....... in the dictionary - basically it means 'superior'.....so if we look up superior and it basically means higher, above, greater...........all meaningless words. It's a circular class of words. they need to be qualified to have any meaning............such as; I feel the ps500 is better because a piano sounds more like the pianos i've played in reality etc.......so, I ask how is the hifiman 'better'. Give me something real, not 'scalable' or more _________, or falls short, etc. How is more of something always better?  because everything else in nature has a balancing point, and sound is part of nature, as is our hearing of it........more heat is not always better. Go live in phoenix in july and tell me more heat is better. Sure, a nice 70 degree day is about perfect and warm is generally 'better' than cold for human beings, but there is a point at which it's not. Same with 'detail', soundstage etc. You can only have so much detail before you lose realness because reality is not necessarily super detailed. Too much soundstage and you lose intamacy, too much extension and you lose the middle. And all this too depends on what music one listens to. too much of anything and the music I like is no longer enjoyable. The new grado sound strikes a nice balance and that's why it's better...........plus it sounds great out of a cheap flac player. One could argue the sound is more pure without an amp in between. The less crap the signal goes through, the less gets lost. Think of all the caps, resistors chips you are sending it through with extra amps. I argue that what the detail freaks like about scalability and super hifi sound is always at a sacrifice in some quality that is hard to pin down, but it's real nonetheless. I've never heard super hifi sound that sounds right and makes me smile. After a point, hifi pursuits is a kind of mental illness.
 

su·pe·ri·or

1.

higher in station, rank, degree, importance

2. above the average

3. of higher grade or quality

4. greater in quantity or amount



 

 

[TMRaven]

Anything over 60Ω is a bad design? Too much detail and you lose realness?  Too much extension and you lose midrange?  Where are you getting this stuff?

 

[jerg]

The hipster is strong with this one. /s