[bagwell359]

Just managed to pick up the Sundara 2022 edition for 180 euro's in mint condition, it's just a month old. The tuning here is excellent: great timbre, control, layering and ok extension. Comparing them to the HE-500 though makes this headphone seem a bit too lean. Don't get me wrong, they sound full enough it's just that double sided magnet planar's are really something else, including the HE-400. Their bass and body alongside the traditional planar layering create this holographic imaging that other headphones can't replicate. This Sundara would make for a great portable hifi planar as it's just so comfortable, well build, easy to drive (LG V40 or other LG Quad Dac phones will power these easily) and manages to sound good enough in comparison to the HE-500 that I am slotting this one in my collection for good. Wholeheartedly would recommend this headphone as it's just so balanced, though the HE-500 remains my main desktop headphone.

I had the 500 vs Sundara '22 comparison just a few days ago. The Sundara is more in the 560/5XX/5 SE sound with the single side. Unmodded, the 500 has some ringing and vibration issues, but they scale quite a bit when you apply mods and EQ. The Sundara just doesn't seem it weould scale the same, nor do those others. Bet there is less HD and IM in the stock '22 Sundara then the stock 500, but you can mitigate the 500, and my modded 500 stomped the '22 stock, but I tried upgrading the others along with the MD-4XX and they do not scale at anywhere near the same rate as the 500/OG 6, or even the 6 SE to a lesser extent.

 

[The Third]

I had the 500 vs Sundara '22 comparison just a few days ago. The Sundara is more in the 560/5XX/5 SE sound with the single side. Unmodded, the 500 has some ringing and vibration issues, but they scale quite a bit when you apply mods and EQ. The Sundara just doesn't seem it weould scale the same, nor do those others. Bet there is less HD and IM in the stock '22 Sundara then the stock 500, but you can mitigate the 500, and my modded 500 stomped the '22 stock, but I tried upgrading the others along with the MD-4XX and they do not scale at anywhere near the same rate as the 500/OG 6, or even the 6 SE to a lesser extent.

Your posts always motivate me to get another HE-500 and mod that unit just like you. I am running a stock HE-500 and am not too bothered by the occasional midrange ringing or vibration issues you mention, though I am very much open to modding a second unit. I feel the Sundara fixes many timbre issues of it's predecessors (400i/560/5XX/5 SE) and that is a very very good thing, would you agree?

 

[bagwell359]

Your posts always motivate me to get another HE-500 and mod that unit just like you. I am running a stock HE-500 and am not too bothered by the occasional midrange ringing or vibration issues you mention, though I am very much open to modding a second unit. I feel the Sundara fixes many timbre issues of it's predecessors (400i/560/5XX/5 SE) and that is a very very good thing, would you agree?

Yes the timbre of the Sundara is good, but it is a bit low bass light and treble strong - but some of the other issues the older HFM have is largely gone - but I mean the older 400, 500, 560 generations more.

The 5 SE does not scale with mods and has a wild treble spike and mid range suck out and the bass is DOA under 55 Hz. Hate that can. The 5XX and the Sundara '22 are in the newer better camp. But I'd rather have the XS or 6 SE overall.

 

[The Third]

Yes the timbre of the Sundara is good, but it is a bit low bass light and treble strong - but some of the other issues the older HFM have is largely gone - but I mean the older 400, 500, 560 generations more.

The 5 SE does not scale with mods and has a wild treble spike and mid range suck out and the bass is DOA under 55 Hz. Hate that can. The 5XX and the Sundara '22 are in the newer better camp. But I'd rather have the XS or 6 SE overall.

I have the latest version of the Sundara so I don't know if that changes anything, but I perceive the highs to be quite subdued and laid back, though not lacking in detail, air or speed. Owning brighter headphones, this one doesnt strike me as bright at all. And the sub bass is fast, and nicely seperated as planars usually have. Extension could be better but is not bad until 30hz. I have been hunting down the original HE-6 here in Holland but without any luck. If I succeed then I'd also have to upgrade my SMSL SP200 amp. Perhaps it's a more realistic goal to get a second HE-500 and grill mod it.

 

[bagwell359]

I have the latest version of the Sundara so I don't know if that changes anything, but I perceive the highs to be quite subdued and laid back, though not lacking in detail, air or speed. Owning brighter headphones, this one doesnt strike me as bright at all. And the sub bass is fast, and nicely seperated as planars usually have. Extension could be better but is not bad until 30hz. I have been hunting down the original HE-6 here in Holland but without any luck. If I succeed then I'd also have to upgrade my SMSL SP200 amp. Perhaps it's a more realistic goal to get a second HE-500 and grill mod it.

The only '22 Sundara I heard only had 25 hrs on it, so possibly its not broken in yet? Or it could be the lack of sub bass, giving it a lighter more treble feel. Also the Heretic has a brightish treble too. The bass is quick as say the 5XX, but it doesn't do much under 45 Hz, and what it does lacks the visceral feel of my 500/6 SE/5LE and even - my HD-600 on the BHC.

HE-6 getting high in price, but the bass impact is another whole class above any of these cans. The 500 also likes a big amp too

 

[The Third]

The only '22 Sundara I heard only had 25 hrs on it, so possibly its not broken in yet? Or it could be the lack of sub bass, giving it a lighter more treble feel. Also the Heretic has a brightish treble too. The bass is quick as say the 5XX, but it doesn't do much under 45 Hz, and what it does lacks the visceral feel of my 500/6 SE/5LE and even - my HD-600 on the BHC.

HE-6 getting high in price, but the bass impact is another whole class above any of these cans. The 500 also likes a big amp too

Output power of the SP200 at high gain is 3 watt per channel at 32ohm, which I feel is sufficient for the HE500, right? And I would definitely agree with the statement that the smaller bass presence of the Sundara give it a lean/bright impression when A-B'ing it with my stock HE500, though this impression subdues when running it as a daily driver and I feel it is very neutral and better than the HD600. From my past research the HE6 really does sound like my type of headphone, as I love the exciting speedy sound of the HE400 but the detailed mids of the HE500 as well, which the HE-6 seems to combine alongside upgraded soundstage and detail. If I buy it, It's going to cost me an arm upgrading, that's for sure xD

 

[bagwell359]

Output power of the SP200 at high gain is 3 watt per channel at 32ohm, which I feel is sufficient for the HE500, right?

Yeah, should do fine. But more is always welcome.

And I would definitely agree with the statement that the smaller bass presence of the Sundara give it a lean/bright impression when A-B'ing it with my stock HE500, though this impression subdues when running it as a daily driver and I feel it is very neutral and better than the HD600.

I was amazed at how much the 600 doesn't like SS amps, even the Rag 1, Bryston BHA-1, not even the v281 couldn't do as good a job as the $318 XDUOO T26, and the BHC w/ or w/o the speedball. My 600 and BHCs is the cheapest combo I have or heard that actually satisfies my desire for bonafide sound, and I'm a born critic.

From my past research the HE6 really does sound like my type of headphone, as I love the exciting speedy sound of the HE400 but the detailed mids of the HE500 as well, which the HE-6 seems to combine alongside upgraded soundstage and detail. If I buy it, It's going to cost me an arm upgrading, that's for sure xD

I disagree a bit. First of all the 6 crushes any 400 IMO. I think the soundstage of the 6 is smaller than the 500, in particular in the mids. The 6 also is a bit zingy unless you put it on some very good equipment. But the bass impact on a potent SS amp is beyond your imagination - plain and simple. The 6 screw is more technical than the 500 but a lot of that is due to the zing.

For a mega HFM fan, I'm a heretic on the 6 screw. At least 7.5 years old, possibly over driven, no repair path. No thanks. The 6 SE (either) doesn't have the bass impact, but overall is a calmer listen with technical detail not fueled by the zing. Now if I could get my hands on a "code" modified 4, 5, 6, etc. in good shape - that's another story.

 

[TWerk]

@bagwell359

I really love the HD600 on my solid state Audeze Deckard - but then to be fair I love just about everything with it - including our Hifimans.

Could also be case of I don't know what I'm missing as that's always a possibility in this hobby.

 

[bagwell359]

@bagwell359

I really love the HD600 on my solid state Audeze Deckard - but then to be fair I love just about everything with it - including our Hifimans.

Could also be case of I don't know what I'm missing as that's always a possibility in this hobby.

I thought my 600 was fine on my Rag 1 until SilverEars lent me his stock BHC about 4 years ago. Whoa I was I wrong. Then he lent me his BHA-1 and yup, not as good as the much cheaper BHC. More recently got my hands on a v281 and XDUOO T-26, and the $319 OTL crushed my Rag yet again on the 600.

I also got a HD-800 in my hands, and it was better on my BHCs (I built my own)

If you a fan of natural timbre, you have no idea of how crazy great the 600 and sound on an OTL tube amp.

 

[vlach]

If you a fan of natural timbre, you have no idea of how crazy great the 600 and sound on an OTL tube amp.

Good to hear you got your hands on the HD-800. I am particularly interested to hear your thoughts about the HD-600 vs the HD-800 on the BHC and also where the HD-800 ranks in the company of your Hifiman cans.
Overall, is the HD-800 superior to any of your Hifiman cans?

 

[bagwell359]

Good to hear you got your hands on the HD-800. I am particularly interested to hear your thoughts about the HD-600 vs the HD-800 on the BHC and also where the HD-800 ranks in the company of your Hifiman cans.
Overall, is the HD-800 superior to any of your Hifiman cans?

I had the 800 (nee S) with the treble mod for about 50 hrs a few months ago. I ran it on my Rag 1 and BHCs. It sounds a bit bleached on the Rag 1, but the sound stage was there. On the OTL it was much richer sounding. Awesome harmonics, and a slight bass boost, and some EQ made it a must get. However the owner decided after hearing it on the BHCs that he couldn't part with it.

The 600 gets slammed by the 800 in terms of sound stage, technicals. But unmodified (I had the 800S on loan about 3 yrs ago too, and with no EQ) the timbre in the mids is just not like say the 600, or at the other high end: the Voce. It's more like a very good HFM can - needs EQ to listen to very well recorded acoustic music (piano/female vocals/violin) and not say to yourself "no, not right".

 

[Tempest228]

Been trying to understand why my HE-500 have developed this distortion (buzzing or rattling sound) in the mids. If I do a full range sweep bass and high frequencies are fine, it's just the mids that have a distortion. I've tried seperate sources, both produce the mid distortion. Could a faulty cable cause this or am just coming to the end of life for these cans?

 

[bagwell359]

Been trying to understand why my HE-500 have developed this distortion (buzzing or rattling sound) in the mids. If I do a full range sweep bass and high frequencies are fine, it's just the mids that have a distortion. I've tried seperate sources, both produce the mid distortion. Could a faulty cable cause this or am just coming to the end of life for these cans?

If you don't have alternate cables, flip the cables in to isolate it to the headphone (most likely) or the cable. Is it the original connectors? They get loose very easily, make sure they are seated properly.

 

[Tempest228]

If you don't have alternate cables, flip the cables in to isolate it to the headphone (most likely) or the cable. Is it the original connectors? They get loose very easily, make sure they are seated properly.

Not the original connectors, 2.5 conversion that has been working for a while now. Been swapping the cables around but it seems inconsistent when it happens. Sometimes it happens on one side, then flip nothing happens. Try again and it happens on both sides.

 

[bagwell359]

Not the original connectors, 2.5 conversion that has been working for a while now. Been swapping the cables around but it seems inconsistent when it happens. Sometimes it happens on one side, then flip nothing happens. Try again and it happens on both sides.

2.5's bend easily. Can you gently pressure them from different sides while in and you are listening?