[StanD]

  I don't believe in cables that much either. I mean, it has yet to be proved. I'm more a scientific kind of guy. However I do love the placebo effect. Just got the Forza Audioworks Hybrid HPC and it feels like the HE-500 has been reborn. It really hasn't, it's just my mind playing tricks on me. Still.. I love it 

 

Hey, I don't need to be fooled, I love these cans. 

 

[Textfeud]

  Hey, I don't need to be fooled, I love these cans. 

I would compare it with buying a jacket. They are both warm enough, but one looks nicer and is more expensive. The quality is the same but you will be happier with the one that looks nicer, and therefore you will start to believe that it's the better jacket. 

 

[StanD]

  I would compare it with buying a jacket. They are both warm enough, but one looks nicer and is more expensive. The quality is the same but you will be happier with the one that looks nicer, and therefore you will start to believe that it's the better jacket. 

But this is the same jacket, maybe with a new belt around it, hold it, that wasn't a cable was it?

 

[hifimanrookie]

  I would compare it with buying a jacket. They are both warm enough, but one looks nicer and is more expensive. The quality is the same but you will be happier with the one that looks nicer, and therefore you will start to believe that it's the better jacket. 

am sorry my friend..but this comparision wont stick on jackets..i am actually very into jackets...and i found out there ARE BIG differnences how efficient wintercoats keep the cold,wind, water out and ventilate...i have some sailers (in my friendscircle) who once in a while attend a worldwide challenge between the bigger sailships on sea...and i trust them very much when they say some coats are just better in what they need then others..and yes...u have to pay for that..
 
and no matter how many people tell my cables are just a bunch of placebo effects i DO believe cables make a difference in ur soundexperience..whether for for the better of for worse...i even believe in vibration feet...as i tested it rigourelously on my very microphic full tube amp, the 337...i think i tapped the poor amp a million times while trying out  different kind of anti-vibration feet and other thingies...and they WORK (some of them DO..not all!!!!) with the feet i kept (almost the least expensive ones i tested!) made the amp sound like a solid block...u couldnt hear the tapping in ur music anymore...and pls dont tell me i imagined that..as if u really start that one u have to get to a loony house..as u cant block tapping noises with ur mind..if u can..then ur one of those people on that new excellent series that started: 'the tomorrow people' with their special mind powers..i love that series!!..hehehehe
 
and i talked with a friend of mine who installs all kind of electrical installations...(he is an engineer in electronics and some more)...and his company just finished an update on the Dutch ex-queens (Beatrix) new home security/monitoring system last year..so he knows one thing or two on how electricity and current etc. can influence monitors and listening mics etc. and how to minimize interference in the signal
 
he at first was just like u guys when i told him about my upgraded toxic cable and my upgraded powercables and me even connecting the powercables correctly fasewise (my powercables has a RED DOT on the life/positive wire side in the wallsocket..so i had to get a little screwdriver with a light in it that lights up to find the postive wire on the wallsocket (in europe we have shuko plus with two pins, plus and negative..so u use it both ways, 'in fase' and otherway around).
 
on both accounts he heard differences especially when changing the standard cable to my toxic cable...the feet were a nobrainer also...it was clear to hear...but i have to confess he had a hard time hearing any differences while alighning the fases on the powercables (i had two)..but as i once said before..my ears are very sensitive..so its possible he just didnt hear it being a huge hardcore metallica fan listening to levels i cant even imagine..hehehe
 
so...in short..most of my friends (who listened to my 337 rig)now are (somewhat) believers that headphone cables, (good but affordable) vibration feet on tubeamps, and in a certain extent powercables actually contribute to a better (OR WORSE) soundexperience...almost all agreed its hard to hear differences on USB cables..or nonexisting..
 
but as i said before...it makes no sense upgrading to expensive quality cables while using a rig thats not able to show that..some amps are only about raw power and no finesse and details or are just not good enough soundwise (like my budget mstage) to show it...with those amps its ofcourse nonsense to do that..!!
 
like my matrix mstage that i had...i bought my first toxic cable when i had that amp with a he300...and it almost didnt improve the sound at all!! only thing that stood out  was far less microphics and looked more sexy.. i really had a hard time hearing differences in sound between the standard cable and the toxic...BUT ON THE OTHER HAND WITH MY MODDED 337 AND MY MODDED HE500 THE DIFFERENCE WAS NIGHT AND DAY changing cables..some with more impact then others...
1. biggest impact was the headphone cable (especially the balanced 8wire with seperated sleeved cables for left and right i have now)...the he500 loves balanced cabling!
2. with lesser impact..but shows differences in how the bass is delived and how lower the noise level becomes: good powercable with quality connectors
3. minimal impact..fase allighing between wallsocket and shuko plugs.. a bit more soundstage in the sound (but that can be placebo!)
4. no change at all..USB cable between my external USB amp and my laptop...but i didnt expected anything more as its only 0-1's that goes through that cable..lolz
 
but as always..on this point i have a VERY DIFFERENT opinion to most of u guys here on this thread..funny is that on a few other threads on which i am active in (also on other forums), that members are much open and confident in how a good cable influences the sound experience...but yes..i have to admit..they do invest more in their rig then the regular nowadays he500 owner does on this thread...an amp of 1000usd is almost considered outrageous money for a headphone amp here for a he500...on other forums/threads thats just the beginning...its considered budget model...AND no...almost no one has to much money...or are rich..some just put money aside for a while and then invest in a good amp..instead of jumping immediately on a hype wagon of budget amping...like is happening now...dont get me wrong..most of the amps mentioned are good for the money and for some the only way to listen to a wonderful headphone, like the he500 is...i respect that..but if u do have the budget..try and find out whats best for ur he500..u will be surprised how much better that he500 can sound then ur experiencing now with the right investment... 

 
 
ps..dont get me wrong..I TOTALLY LOVED MY MSTAGE (version 1)...IT PUNCHED WAY ABOVE ITS PRICEPOINT.. and if u dont have an headphone who needs current and ur on a budget..then i believe that amp is a nobrainer!

 

[StanD]

Cables and vibration feet are different topics.
Comparing microphone cables which are for higher gain, higher impedance circuits is not the same as headphones are lower impedance, not high gain and cables for cans do not need such shielding or very low capacitance. IMO, as an example, speaker wire will sound just as good as expensive headphone cables, sans placebo effects. That said, if one enjoys fancy cables, go for it. I'm here to balance the scales (not balanced cables), just say'in. 

 

[ben_r_]

  Cables and vibration feet are different topics.
Comparing microphone cables which are for higher gain, higher impedance circuits is not the same as headphones are lower impedance, not high gain and cables for cans do not need such shielding or very low capacitance. IMO, as an example, speaker wire will sound just as good as expensive headphone cables, sans placebo effects. That said, if one enjoys fancy cables, go for it. I'm here to balance the scales (not balanced cables), just say'in. 

A COAT HANGER has been PROVEN to sound exactly the same. There have been many studies done. No one can tell the difference from MANY A/B blind tests, but like religion, as long as people want to believe itll always be true to them. And also like religion, the industry certainly isnt complaining, they are making a killing off of peoples faith. Monster for example has made MILLIONS. The people who post a ton advocating how great expensive cables are probably make cables and sell them on eBay so it's in their best interest to spread the faith.
 
Now, that being said, if you accept that cables make no difference and are just buying them because they can look awesome and can be better than the ones that came with your cans (like the TERRIBLE HiFiMan cables) that is a valid reason and why I make my own cables. Just for looks and better feel or functionality.

 

[hifimanrookie]

  Cables and vibration feet are different topics.
Comparing microphone cables which are for higher gain, higher impedance circuits is not the same as headphones are lower impedance, not high gain and cables for cans do not need such shielding or very low capacitance. IMO, as an example, speaker wire will sound just as good as expensive headphone cables, sans placebo effects. That said, if one enjoys fancy cables, go for it. I'm here to balance the scales (not balanced cables), just say'in. 

what balance? that u love shiit amps? and that everything that costs a bit more then what they pump out is not done? u dont even try to have an open mind..like i did...i went from very affordable but still good stuff to what i have now and will get soon something very special.....
 
i have always been open to new stuff (also in my two other hobbies being improving cars and building extreme PC's) ..thats why i came across blue circle and hifiman (in the past) and toxic cables...if i would be like u (or sound like u)...burning down every other opinion then urs with the suggestion u do it for the greater good (quoting u: balancing the scales)...
i have a VERY long history with higher end quality speaker stuff of the likes of luxman and some other smaller higher end brands...and i only went to headphone stuff because i became daddy...that was only because i forced myself to have an open mind, as i was very biassed about headphones before that...i always thought they were rubbish in portraying the heart of the music as they were on ur ears..but i changed my opinion...and how i changed it!

i sold all my speaker rig 10 years ago..and never looked back

 
so although i believe what ur trying to do..showing that inexpensive stuff can give u a good listening experience, its not about balancing the scales...its how u believe it has to be...leaning on ur own experiences and ur own rig... i think we all do that...in a way... i try to keep myself a bit open towards budget stuff lately as i see that people with lower budget still need a good amp for their he500...so i respect that deeply...and i will never try to even the scales because i believe that investing in the RIGHT COMPONENTS for ur rig does contribute to a better listening experience..u do urself short if u dont at least try it...just to compare the change...as always..more money doenst mean better sound...its all about getting the best balance in ur rig...a thing i learned on the hard way with my car hobby..... and in that case it did hurt badly..litererarely...

 
but i think as long headfi exists this discussion exists...and it will always exist...as most of us dont have a unlimited budget to find that blissful rig...so we keep on balancing the scales on debates like this...

 
but i do love u...in a non gayish way ofcourse.

.as u have the same kind of passion as i have for what u believe in..and i can only respect that!

 

[hifimanrookie]

 
A COAT HANGER has been PROVEN to sound exactly the same. There have been many studies done. No one can tell the difference from MANY A/B blind tests, but like religion, as long as people want to believe itll always be true to them. And also like religion, the industry certainly isnt complaining, they are making a killing off of peoples faith. Monster for example has made MILLIONS. The people who post a ton advocating how great expensive cables are probably make cables and sell them on eBay so it's in their best interest to spread the faith.
 
Now, that being said, if you accept that cables make no difference and are just buying them because they can look awesome and can be better than the ones that came with your cans (like the TERRIBLE HiFiMan cables) that is a valid reason and why I make my own cables. Just for looks and better feel or functionality.

i can go a long way with this statement..like the brand u mentioned and ray samuels audio(who's owner i found out on a clip has a aventador! just for selling amps! lolz)  make a fortune in making people belive what they sell is the truth in audio... and am not even talking about beats...

 
yes...i agree with u also that if ur looking for a cable just because of the reasons u mentioned u just do it...
 
but a coathanger? in my country most of those hangers are from aluminum...never saw a headphone wire made of aluminium...

 
and no..i dont make cables..i even tried to mod my pads on my he500 that i had..to no avail..had to buy the excellent modulor pads instead....and i dont work for any brand..i just love to listen to music and in so i try to make my rig as good as possible... and now i have some budget i can do what i am doing now

 
 
but still i find it very curious that some DIY cable builders (no pun intended..i respect what u do!)..say exactly the same thing..that people better buy cables for their looks and anti microphic reasons..and that cables improving soundexperience is rubbish (more or less)... it makes me wonder where that comes from.....

 

[ben_r_]

 
i can go a long way with this statement..like the brand u mentioned and ray samuels audio(who's owner i found out on a clip has a aventador! just for selling amps! lolz)  make a fortune in making people belive what they sell is the truth in audio... and am not even talking about beats...

 
yes...i agree with u also that if ur looking for a cable just because of the reasons u mentioned u just do it...
 
but a coathanger? in my country most of those hangers are from aluminum...never saw a headphone wire made of aluminium...

 
and no..i dont make cables..i even tried to mod my pads on my he500 that i had..to no avail..had to buy the excellent modulor pads instead....and i dont work for any brand..i just love to listen to music and in so i try to make my rig as good as possible... and now i have some budget i can do what i am doing now

 
 
but still i find it very curious that some DIY cable builders (no pun intended..i respect what u do!)..say exactly the same thing..that people better buy cables for their looks and anti microphic reasons..and that cables improving soundexperience is rubbish (more or less)... it makes me wonder where that comes from.....

Just for reference: LINK

 

[ThurstonX]

  Hey, I don't need to be fooled, I love these cans. 

 
Not trying to fool you, but did you order those Q701 pads yet? 

 

[StanD]

  Cables and vibration feet are different topics.
Comparing microphone cables which are for higher gain, higher impedance circuits is not the same as headphones are lower impedance, not high gain and cables for cans do not need such shielding or very low capacitance. IMO, as an example, speaker wire will sound just as good as expensive headphone cables, sans placebo effects. That said, if one enjoys fancy cables, go for it. I'm here to balance the scales (not balanced cables), just say'in. 

 
 

 
what balance? that u love shiit amps? and that everything that costs a bit more then what they pump out is not done? u dont even try to have an open mind..like i did...i went from very affordable but still good stuff to what i have now and will get soon something very special.....
 
i have always been open to new stuff (also in my two other hobbies being improving cars and building extreme PC's) ..thats why i came across blue circle and hifiman (in the past) and toxic cables...if i would be like u (or sound like u)...burning down every other opinion then urs with the suggestion u do it for the greater good (quoting u: balancing the scales)...
i have a VERY long history with higher end quality speaker stuff of the likes of luxman and some other smaller higher end brands...and i only went to headphone stuff because i became daddy...that was only because i forced myself to have an open mind, as i was very biassed about headphones before that...i always thought they were rubbish in portraying the heart of the music as they were on ur ears..but i changed my opinion...and how i changed it!

i sold all my speaker rig 10 years ago..and never looked back

 
so although i believe what ur trying to do..showing that inexpensive stuff can give u a good listening experience, its not about balancing the scales...its how u believe it has to be...leaning on ur own experiences and ur own rig... i think we all do that...in a way... i try to keep myself a bit open towards budget stuff lately as i see that people with lower budget still need a good amp for their he500...so i respect that deeply...and i will never try to even the scales because i believe that investing in the RIGHT COMPONENTS for ur rig does contribute to a better listening experience..u do urself short if u dont at least try it...just to compare the change...as always..more money doenst mean better sound...its all about getting the best balance in ur rig...a thing i learned on the hard way with my car hobby..... and in that case it did hurt badly..litererarely...

 
but i think as long headfi exists this discussion exists...and it will always exist...as most of us dont have a unlimited budget to find that blissful rig...so we keep on balancing the scales on debates like this...

 
but i do love u...in a non gayish way ofcourse.

.as u have the same kind of passion as i have for what u believe in..and i can only respect that!

There you go again with analogies from amps to lifestyle. 

 OK, we all love each other in a non-gayish manner.
Cables and amps are different stories.
To me there is nothing in cables that will improve the sound, other than imagination. Aesthetics and possible comfort issues, I can believe in that and the cost basis is a personal thing.
Amps, well I prefer a clean sound, some will paint that  with the 'Analytical ' label. That either puts me in the SS camp or pure tube big dollar category. As you already know I'm not a fan of adding even order harmonic distortion or the "Warm" sound, hence the only tubes amps I like, sound like a good SS Amp. IMO once you can drive cans beyond earsplitting levels with enough headroom, you don't need more power as there is nothing to be gained from that. Once you reach a low enough level of distortion that no human being can possibly perceive there is nothing to be gained from further improvements, other than playing with Lab equipment and enjoying bragging rights. Of course the human aspect of once you've spent the money, you better enjoy it and let the imagination loose. 

  But as I always say, if someone wants to spend more and they enjoy it, that's fine with me. I have no right to restrict what anyone does or wants in these matters.
I have friends that sink money into these nice toys and have listened often enough to know from where I sit,  where it's at. Id rather sink some money into a Nikon 3000mm AFS VR f2.8 lens and upgrade my vacation.
One last thing, I ain't kiss'in you, even if you're from The Netherlands. 

 My wife would throw me and my headphones out of the house.

 

[StanD]

   
Not trying to fool you, but did you order those Q701 pads yet? 

I will, I promise you. Currently I'm entertaining the thought of getting a fully loaded Bifrost. That means unless I find a compelling reason not to, I'm pulling the trigger in around a week or so.
Schiit, I could have it here on Monday, if I hit the button at Amazon. I must resist...I must resist...I must resist

 

[hifimanrookie]

There you go again with analogies from amps to lifestyle.   OK, we all love each other in a non-gayish manner.
Cables and amps are different stories.
To me there is nothing in cables that will improve the sound, other than imagination. Aesthetics and possible comfort issues, I can believe in that and the cost basis is a personal thing.
Amps, well I prefer a clean sound, some will paint that  with the 'Analytical ' label. That either puts me in the SS camp or pure tube big dollar category. As you already know I'm not a fan of adding even order harmonic distortion or the "Warm" sound, hence the only tubes amps I like, sound like a good SS Amp. IMO once you can drive cans beyond earsplitting levels with enough headroom, you don't need more power as there is nothing to be gained from that. Once you reach a low enough level of distortion that no human being can possibly perceive there is nothing to be gained from further improvements, other than playing with Lab equipment and enjoying bragging rights. Of course the human aspect of once you've spent the money, you better enjoy it and let the imagination loose.    But as I always say, if someone wants to spend more and they enjoy it, that's fine with me. I have no right to restrict what anyone does or wants in these matters.
I have friends that sink money into these nice toys and have listened often enough to know from where I sit,  where it's at. Id rather sink some money into a Nikon 3000mm AFS VR f2.8 lens and upgrade my vacation.
One last thing, I ain't kiss'in you, even if you're from The Netherlands. :wink_face:  My wife would throw me and my headphones out of the house.

Ur funny..hehehe dont worry..i wont kiss u..i only kiss women as i have portuguese blood in my Vains

And i agree with u how u explain where ur coming from...i dont like warm sounding tube amps also..thats why the 337 surprised me..on a meeting a tubeamp owner told me he found my amp almost sounding like a ss amp ans sounded very fast and powerful, he prefered the more warmer mellow tube sound..

 

[StanD]

Ur funny..hehehe dont worry..i wont kiss u..i only kiss women as i have portuguese blood in my Vains

And i agree with u how u explain where ur coming from...i dont like warm sounding tube amps also..thats why the 337 surprised me..on a meeting a tubeowneepr told me he found my amp almost sounding like a ss amp ans sounded very fast and powerful, he prefered the more warmer mellow tube sound..

My wife says that she still will not let me vacation in The Netherlands, she doesn't trust me anymore.

 OK, so I made that up.
What I like about this thread is that there are no outbursts and angry fights over what we should be enjoying.
Although that pesky monkey with a memory won't let me forget about those Q701 pads.
Edit: OK, so he has my best interests at heart.

 

[ThurstonX]

  I will, I promise you. Currently I'm entertaining the thought of getting a fully loaded Bifrost. That means unless I find a compelling reason not to, I'm pulling the trigger in around a week or so.
Schiit, I could have it here on Monday, if I hit the button at Amazon. I must resist...I must resist...I must resist

 
"I will, I promise you." Just want to get that down for posterity 

  Seriously though, not pushing it (NB: I've yet to start a thread for this "mod" or even post pictures, just fielded the occasional question and PM).  And of course I can't promise you'll love the sound.  I can promise you'll prefer the comfort over either stock pad.  While I'd love to try the Lawton pads, $100 is... well, 3x what I paid for the AKGs.  Annnnnnnnnnnd cue the pads version of the above cost vs. performance debate 

 
The Bifrost is a bute.  Why not get it fully tricked out from Schiit and spring for FedEx 2-Day?  Except for shipping, the price is the same.  I'm glad I did.  OK, now that was mean 

  Are you getting USB?  Are you getting the Uber Analog upgrade?  What about cables.  PYST?  I got them because they're the least expensive really short interconnects I could find.  One was defective, and Schiit shipped a replacement pair pronto (I did provide a lot of test results isolating the cable).  Of course, I unscrewed both ends, saw what I figured was the dodgy end, and used my half-ass soldering skills to make it work.  So far so good.  And yes, I definitely hear a difference between the PYST cables and the generic consumer (came with CD or DVD player) red & white interconnects.
 
Enjoy that Schiit, whatever version you get.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
PIH!  Just checked Amazon and see the Uber Bifrost is Prime!  Bugger bugger bugger #%$! #%$! #%$!