HiFiman HE-500 (HE as in High End) Proving to be an enjoyable experience in listening.

[ostewart]

Anyone using a balance cable with their HE-500's? If is so are you sticking with silver, like the stock cable, or did you move to a copper cable. Thanks in advance!

Copper, Atlas Zeno in my case.

 

[ilikepooters]

Only mods i've done to mine is silver cable (made no difference), Lawton Audio angled leather pads (really good, better soundstage and confort) and i've removed the cloth from the grills which has made the sound a bit more airy.


Paired with Bifrost 4490 Gen 5 USB and Schiit Lyr 3

I'm happy with how they are sounding at the moment.

 

[bagwell359]

Woven mesh grills are the best way to cut down treble reflections and keep an actual protective layer on the back.
The weave means there is no flat surface, so all the waves break up nicely, and you get just about the same open sound as if it wasn't there at all.

I really have no idea why nobody else is using them.
They also look great.

Without a shred of doubt the fuzzor mod deals with treble reflections at the ear far more than any of the rear screen mods I tried - even none.

I tried about 6 different types of mesh - including woven mesh - and found a very sparse 1/2" mesh groundcloth to be the most open sounding that gives some protection (not dust obviously) - I reported on this about 6-8 months ago in this thread (multiple posts). The percentage of coverage and width of the grids are the two critical factors. Big gaps with thick grids were the worst. Narrow grids and low percentage of coverage was the best. The very tight mesh I found was not at all airy (nearly 40% coverage) and closed down the sound similar to stock - so little change.

 

[GREQ]

Without a shred of doubt the fuzzor mod deals with treble reflections at the ear far more than any of the rear screen mods I tried - even none.

I tried about 6 different types of mesh - including woven mesh - and found a very sparse 1/2" mesh groundcloth to be the most open sounding that gives some protection (not dust obviously) - I reported on this about 6-8 months ago in this thread (multiple posts). The percentage of coverage and width of the grids are the two critical factors. Big gaps with thick grids were the worst. Narrow grids and low percentage of coverage was the best. The very tight mesh I found was not at all airy (nearly 40% coverage) and closed down the sound similar to stock - so little change.

Your experience goes in totally the opposite direction to mine.
Simply, I can only disagree with you.

I've tried fuzzor, various front damping materials, a few different grills including without grills and quite a variety of ear pads with mine over the past 6 years.

 

[bagwell359]

Your experience goes in totally the opposite direction to mine.
Simply, I can only disagree with you.

I've tried fuzzor, various front damping materials, a few different grills including without grills and quite a variety of ear pads with mine over the past 6 years.

How can modifying treble going out the rear even come close to the changes from the fuzzor mod? On the rear the effect of the stock mesh is strongest at 400Hz and below. The treble can't go out the rear and do a left turn through the pads to effect what ones ear is hearing. It doesn't go thru the the membrane either. The effect of increased treble quantity and quality by taking off the rear mesh is due to the decrease in lower mid -> bass - I.E. its heard differently due to changes in output elsewhere.

I've used a number of pads also, dynamat, felt, etc. as well. Dynamat and felt good when used correctly, the pad I liked the most after testing is the MrSpeaker Ether Angled, haven't heard yours.

We're both obvious fans of the HE-500. Carry on, but I'm dead sure about fuzzor >>> rear screen for curing treble and midrange unwanted reflections. Of course both mods are better than either alone - as long as we stick with our own rear mod.

 

[Slim1970]

Woven mesh grills are the best way to cut down treble reflections and keep an actual protective layer on the back.
The weave means there is no flat surface, so all the waves break up nicely, and you get just about the same open sound as if it wasn't there at all.

I really have no idea why nobody else is using them.
They also look great.

Those grilles look very cool. Where did you get them?

 

[bagwell359]

OK, my recipe book of HE-500 mods, use them or not as the spirit moves you. Ranked in order of my opinion of positive effect.

1. fuzzor mod: radically cuts down amusical reflections on ear facing side. Recently, I changed the short thick one at each end (left & right) from felt to dynamat. I also added a thin felt strip over the middle bar that sits just between the edges of the pad (visible to the ear). The dynamat damps the physical structure so bass notes don't rattle, smear, or drown out what's above/near them musically.

2. pads - when I looked at them (MrSpeakers Ether Flow Closed) the first time, I wondered how it could be any good - blocking so much of the membrane. The reason I got them is the measurement of the HE-6 and HE-500. Sr members of Head-FI and (that other site) both agreed they measured flatest and best with these pads. My take is that the membranes are slightly out of time sync from outer edge to the middle. This is clearly heard as less time smear, less cruft - more blackness and more true harmonics and more stage cues when you make the change. Soundstage also got deeper - but its the almost HD600 like clarity around the notes that grabs your attention. I tried six other pads including the usual suspects, and odd stuff like Delkoni fenestrated (meh) and Fostex FH500 (neh) - nothing was close.

3. change backing screen to one with much greater open space. Lose a bit of signal from about 350 Hz down, but that whole hollow/reverb low mid into the upper bass thing - which is essentially amusical is gone. the width of the stage goes from 210 degrees with two big posts getting the way about 50 and -50 degress to an open and full 230 degrees. It's got a good rectangular size and is pretty deep too.

4. cable. the stock cable actually is awful. I bought a black dragon v1 as part of another deal, and was amazed at how good it was. Less microphonic, seemed to cut down the false sheen of things like cymbals, any decently made O2 free non microphonic cable is liable to do the trick.

5. rear damping. More dynamat, more felt. The dynamat is very helpful for the bass, and the screen not rattling (even with the retainer ring in). make a fairly small snake out of the dynamat, and press it in good at the intersection of the driver surround and the side, and than do a small felt strip around higher up on the cup. after the screen is in, you can do small dynamat around the edge at the intersection of the screen and the cup - do that after you are sure you won't be going in again - a mess to remove. I'd omit the felt if doing this again.

My pics are crappy, I'll try again around the 25th

Brought forward for reference.

 

[GREQ]

Those grilles look very cool. Where did you get them?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Woven-Wire-...hash=item3cf6a98b89:m:m9J9fUQ8Wvv1jaJ8qyr4Apw
I bought the mesh-count of 20.
Cutting it to fit is kinda tricky without proper tools, and edges can get quite sharp, but it actually fits under the plastic ring that holds the stock grill in place.

 

[GREQ]

How can modifying treble going out the rear even come close to the changes from the fuzzor mod? .

Because the stock flat metal grill reflects more sound back to the ear than what bounces around between the driver from your ear/skin which is naturally bumpy, curved and absorbs sound energy.
Fuzzor was one of the least exciting mods I've ever done on the HE-500. I heard very little difference, but it was incremental enough for me to leave it in.

 

[bagwell359]

Because the stock flat metal grill reflects more sound back to the ear than what bounces around between the driver from your ear

Wait. You are claiming that more treble gets to your ear in reflections from the stock screen that what bounces around on the ear side? Please provide evidence of this claim.

Fuzzor was one of the least exciting mods I've ever done on the HE-500. I heard very little difference, but it was incremental enough for me to leave it in.

Without the fuzzor details in the mids and highs get smudged, and there is a hardness that creeps in making me want to take them off. A certain sign of reflections causing major problems in clarity - similar to dipoles in rooms with too much reflection and not enough diffraction/absorption. I listen to a loaned HE-6 which is unmodified, and while it's easy to tell the driver itself is superior the HE-500, all the untreated issues really drags down the performance.

I've read every word here and on 3 other sites re: modifying the HE-6 and HE-500. I've adopted some, and modified some, and done each one at a time so I could quantify/qualify them. I'd like to hear what you've come up with. I respect your work and conclusions, but as you said, much of it is diametrically opposed to mine.

My results with my HE-500 as they are now vs when I bought them does fit pretty closely with my experiences of owning and selling dozens of dipoles, and setting up rooms to support them and other high end speakers, kit building, and speaker and electronics mods. My effort to get closer to the music has succeeded with these. IHope you feel the same about yours.

 

[GREQ]

Wait. You are claiming that more treble gets to your ear in reflections from the stock screen that what bounces around on the ear side? Please provide evidence of this claim.



Without the fuzzor details in the mids and highs get smudged, and there is a hardness that creeps in making me want to take them off. A certain sign of reflections causing major problems in clarity - similar to dipoles in rooms with too much reflection and not enough diffraction/absorption. I listen to a loaned HE-6 which is unmodified, and while it's easy to tell the driver itself is superior the HE-500, all the untreated issues really drags down the performance.

I've read every word here and on 3 other sites re: modifying the HE-6 and HE-500. I've adopted some, and modified some, and done each one at a time so I could quantify/qualify them. I'd like to hear what you've come up with. I respect your work and conclusions, but as you said, much of it is diametrically opposed to mine.

My results with my HE-500 as they are now vs when I bought them does fit pretty closely with my experiences of owning and selling dozens of dipoles, and setting up rooms to support them and other high end speakers, kit building, and speaker and electronics mods. My effort to get closer to the music has succeeded with these. IHope you feel the same about yours.

Currently the only 'evidence' I have is my own recalled experiences, going from stock to modified versions.
It was quite easy to try out different grills, since you can just leave the cans on your head, pick up the next grill and hold it in place... not very scientific, but the differences are clearly audible and definitely a more reliable memory.

I could tear off all the fuzzor and mods, return my he-500 to stock and take some measurements with my miniDSP EARS, put the fuzzor back on and remeasure, and then do the same with stock grills vs my own, but I don't feel the time investment is worth the reward for a headphone that is gradually becoming less relevant (not to us, but generally speaking).

In my experience, most of the treble from large planars (and most dynamic drivers) emanates from the outer edges, so even simply adding a donut of felt or any damping material on the ear-side of the driver would help reduce most of the splashiness or harshness in the sound. Whether or not you're losing some microdetail by adopting a brute-force method that isn't as delicate as the fuzzor is something for the generations to debate and is of little interest to me.
I'm currently using fuzzor and a layer of arctic cotton/bamboo or something like that.. basically a non-synthetic thermal-insulation material.
Also my DIY pads are a touch narrower and deeper than stock, which warms up the sound slightly overall.
Of course most of what I'm talking about has little to do with treble reflections, I just wanted to elaborate on my methodology a little so you can understand what angle I'm taking on this.

It's been a while since I've revisited the core mods in my HE-500, so I might give the 'tear-down and measure' idea a go.
I'll just have to put a few other planar transplant and modding projects to the side for a while. Things get a bit complicated quite quickly with nearly 100 headphones cluttering up the place...

 

[bagwell359]

Currently the only 'evidence' I have is my own recalled experiences, going from stock to modified versions.
It was quite easy to try out different grills, since you can just leave the cans on your head, pick up the next grill and hold it in place... not very scientific, but the differences are clearly audible and definitely a more reliable memory.

Yes, holding them up is what I did with the 5-6 ones I tried - took some pics back on this thread

I could tear off all the fuzzor and mods, return my he-500 to stock and take some measurements with my miniDSP EARS, put the fuzzor back on and remeasure, and then do the same with stock grills vs my own, but I don't feel the time investment is worth the reward for a headphone that is gradually becoming less relevant (not to us, but generally speaking).

I agree. I wouldn't do it.

In my experience, most of the treble from large planars (and most dynamic drivers) emanates from the outer edges, so even simply adding a donut of felt or any damping material on the ear-side of the driver would help reduce most of the splashiness or harshness in the sound. Whether or not you're losing some microdetail by adopting a brute-force method that isn't as delicate as the fuzzor is something for the generations to debate and is of little interest to me.

HFM used to put felt/other materials in front of the drivers (1/4 in the case of the six screw HE-6). I don't like that. Headphones don't have room matching issues, but they sure have near field reflection issues. The issue is to get rid of some of the ones bouncing around cancelling out direct to the ear signals. Felt when not directly in the way of music is useful from mids up, and for bass - dynamat to quell vibrations.

I'm currently using fuzzor and a layer of arctic cotton/bamboo or something like that.. basically a non-synthetic thermal-insulation material.
Also my DIY pads are a touch narrower and deeper than stock, which warms up the sound slightly overall.
Of course most of what I'm talking about has little to do with treble reflections, I just wanted to elaborate on my methodology a little so you can understand what angle I'm taking on this.

It's been a while since I've revisited the core mods in my HE-500, so I might give the 'tear-down and measure' idea a go.
I'll just have to put a few other planar transplant and modding projects to the side for a while. Things get a bit complicated quite quickly with nearly 100 headphones cluttering up the place...

Where are you using the bamboo, and whats the trade name?

100.... whoa... I have two tuner rebuilds, and cap upgrades of my DAC, AMP, and CD on my to do list - by 2020 I should be done.... Oh yeah and find one more top notch headphone.

 

[GREQ]

Where are you using the bamboo, and whats the trade name?
.

Pretty sure it's this stuff (or similar)
https://www.amazon.com/Quilters-Dream-Orient-Midloft-Batting/dp/B07BGG75F6

But they do different blends, cotton, bamboo, silk... and they all attenuate slightly differently.
In reality there are so many different natural and synthetic batting blends, one could spend months trying them all out in various ways, but to what end?
I've honestly got more use out of cheap synthetic 'Thermolam' which is often used as the underside layer for iron-board covers, or 'cheap' winter clothing.
It just worked much better in a lot of vintage orthodynamic mods, and is a much more homogeneous sheet of material compared with the natural (and expensive) alternatives.

..dynamat to quell vibrations.
.

I'm quite the fan of sorbothane as an alternative to dynamat, but I heard no(?) difference when I tried it out on the HE-500.
It's also much easier to work with and clean up after.

100.... whoa... .

I'm on a massive cull right now, but I think I'll settle with about 35 various headphones, iems and buds.
The past 10-15 years have been a wild ride.

 

[bagwell359]

Pretty sure it's this stuff (or similar)
https://www.amazon.com/Quilters-Dream-Orient-Midloft-Batting/dp/B07BGG75F6

But they do different blends, cotton, bamboo, silk... and they all attenuate slightly differently.
In reality there are so many different natural and synthetic batting blends, one could spend months trying them all out in various ways, but to what end?
I've honestly got more use out of cheap synthetic 'Thermolam' which is often used as the underside layer for iron-board covers, or 'cheap' winter clothing.
It just worked much better in a lot of vintage orthodynamic mods, and is a much more homogeneous sheet of material compared with the natural (and expensive) alternatives.


I'm quite the fan of sorbothane as an alternative to dynamat, but I heard no(?) difference when I tried it out on the HE-500.
It's also much easier to work with and clean up after.


I'm on a massive cull right now, but I think I'll settle with about 35 various headphones, iems and buds.
The past 10-15 years have been a wild ride.

I've wondered if the Code Sex HE-6 mods use some soft of fabric. Some say its cryogenic.... Interesting at least.

I use sorbothane. Like if for feet and other audio stuff. But for the small spaces I like the dynamat - I take off the backing and lay it in there, and form fit it. Clean up is OK, but it's tough to get 100% off.

I'm on a cull myself, 4 gone/going, 1 coming - 5 total

 

[Slim1970]

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Woven-Wire-...hash=item3cf6a98b89:m:m9J9fUQ8Wvv1jaJ8qyr4Apw
I bought the mesh-count of 20.
Cutting it to fit is kinda tricky without proper tools, and edges can get quite sharp, but it actually fits under the plastic ring that holds the stock grill in place.

Thanks, I may look into this.