[Joong]

they sound nothing alike.

Partly because the decay rate is different.
Noticeable difference of frequency responses after 10k would make considerable differences of overtones.
These overtones defines characteristics of phones.
Therefore there are considerable difference between when we don't ignore the FR after 10k, where the fundamental tunes gets their overtones.

 

[kid vic]

they sound nothing alike.

This is why I always get annoyed when people start asking for graphs or trashing headphones according to a graph they've seen somewhere. Synesthesia isn't that accurate.

 

[kid vic]

Partly because the decay rate is different.
Noticeable difference of frequency responses after 10k would make considerable differences of overtones.
These overtones defines characteristics of phones.
Therefore there are considerable difference between when we don't ignore the FR after 10k, where the fundamental tunes gets their overtones.

??
Not sure what that has to do with these two headphones that audibly sound nothing alike. Decay rates don't explain the massive gulf in tone, measurement doesn't tell us why the soundstage is massively different between the two either. Overtones are not quite enough to explain the differences between them.

 

[Joong]

Timbre is nothing but different weighted combination of overtones.
The difference of timbres between phones are well understood by science.

 

[kid vic]

Timbre is nothing but different weighted combination of overtones.
The difference of timbres between phones are well understood by science.

Ok, I understand that. I was thinking along a slightly different line but thats ok.
The reason I have different headphones and have tried several amps is because of these overtone differences, but obviously the science used to create this graphs is not reflecting the "subtleties" in overtone. If someone were to look at this graph and think the Utopia is a Hifiman ripoff or that the HE500 is a budget Utopia they would be in for serious let down.
My point is that graphs do not tell you what the headphones sound like. You don't need to be a scientist to hear the vast gulf of timbre between these two headphones but apparently the science that understands timbres effects can't accurately measure and show the differences in timbre.

 

[cskippy]

BTW, that Utopia in that graph is the original Utopia that Tyll loved, not like production versions.

 

[Slim1970]

I have them both and I confirm what everyone else is saying about these two headphones. In that they sound nothing alike. I’m not even sure how their frequency responses track so close.

 

[Fegefeuer]

This beauty of a cable is on the way to me. Outstanding work by Firschi.

 

[Joong]

Ok, I understand that. I was thinking along a slightly different line but thats ok.
The reason I have different headphones and have tried several amps is because of these overtone differences, but obviously the science used to create this graphs is not reflecting the "subtleties" in overtone. If someone were to look at this graph and think the Utopia is a Hifiman ripoff or that the HE500 is a budget Utopia they would be in for serious let down.
My point is that graphs do not tell you what the headphones sound like. You don't need to be a scientist to hear the vast gulf of timbre between these two headphones but apparently the science that understands timbres effects can't accurately measure and show the differences in timbre.

My comment of the graphs are based on my mathematical imagination as engineer.
I don't know by my first hand experience that difference of timbres by the band between 10k to 20k which is always crazily different from phone to phone, which seems like a finger print.
That finger print seems the timbre.
Be not so serious about my comment.

 

[kid vic]

My comment of the graphs are based on my mathematical imagination as engineer.
I don't know by my first hand experience that difference of timbres by the band between 10k to 20k which is always crazily different from phone to phone, which seems like a finger print.
That finger print seems the timbre.
Be not so serious about my comment.

Lol you may as well redact your post then. Happy listening

 

[bagwell359]

If we could look at the THD and ringing behavior of both cans, that would explain a lot, then of course there is the listening tests.

I'm in the midst of a long term study on different backs for the HE-500 (and 4XX). I found that a 3/4" hole with about 60% coverage (pic in 4XX thread) is worse then the stock screen or no screen. Next stop something like the back of the Sundara. Nice to see some measurements - but they wouldn't stop me making my own subjective judgements.

 

[Joong]

Lol you may as well redact your post then. Happy listening

However I consider that view as serious fact based on scientific observation.
When I said overtones, I referred to harmonics or / and overtones.
Those harmonics and overtones constitute timbre with which we can identify difference of musical instrument on the same fundamental tone.
In general upto 2k there are many phones share the same curve as in he500 and utopia, whereas the band between 10k and 20k seems to be far more different shapes each other, where many overtones and harmonics are staying that determine the timbre.

 

[alphanumerix1]

got my he500 recently and im liking it alot.

 

[bagwell359]

got my he500 recently and im liking it alot.

When you get a chance toss in a review. What are you using for cables and pads?

 

[alphanumerix1]

When you get a chance toss in a review. What are you using for cables and pads?

Just a venus xlr cable and focus A pads.