[Deoee]

Shure 1540 earpads are a great match for the 400i.

I am selling my pair for $23 shipped, if you are interested. I have moved on to the Monolith M560 headphones since I got them half price $199 on sale for $100 last week. Check my trader feedback if interested and PM me.

The 1540 pads make the bass vibrate your head a little bit in EDM, lol its quite impressive. Hm5 leather does as well, but not to the same extant, there is something special about that Alcantara material

I'd be interested but I'm from EU.
If you will ship to Germany too, I'd get them

 

[pbarach]

Do the Focus Pad-A (which Hifiman sells) reduce the brightness of the 400i cans?

 

[mandrake50]

It depends on what you call brightness. I have had people refer to brightness as an elevated upper midrange/lower treble. I have also talked to some that meant elevated response from maybe 8K up.
The focus A pad was developed to mimic the effects of the Jerg pad. It has a soft material on the inside with holes in it. The intent is to reduce reflections. The focus A is my pad of choice for both the 400i and the 560.
In the 560 it definitely helps with the 3.5 to 6 K peakiness that it has. I think with the 400i it gives a bit more mellow sound, but doesn't seem to affect the true high frequencies very much (maybe 8K and up). I also like the bass with the focus A better on both headphones. Perhaps this is just a matter of the change in balance when using the "A".

So what are you thinking about when you say "brightness". Although the term is sued all over Head-Fi, it seems to mean different things to different people.

 

[Little Bear]

So what are you thinking about when you say "brightness". Although the term is sued all over Head-Fi, it seems to mean different things to different people.

Lack of common understanding on that and many other terms can compound the problem of describing sound to one another. To me, "bright" means too much treble. "Dark" means not enough treble. IMO, the 400i is neither. Well balanced is what I would call it.

 

[mandrake50]

Yes though many comment on them being bright, I have never found them to be bright at all. Back when I got mine they were part of a demo tour type thing. I remember putting them on for the first time and immediately thinking.. WOW these are real nice. I have an elevated sensitivity to harsh upper midrange and treble. Yes the are pretty balanced for my tastes anyway.

 

[panos444]

Hello,
i own Hifiman He400i and i am planing to buy an amp, a dac and a phono. My digital source is my pc (mobo: gigabyte x370 k7 gaming and spakers: Kef Egg with intergrated dac) and my turntable is Dual 604.
I would like to spent around 600€. (I live in Europe!)
Now Massdrop has Gustard H10, would be a good movement? Also has Grace Design m9XX, as a combo dac/amp.
Any suggestions? Thank you.

 

[GirgleMirt]

For me, bright is simply treble/mid emphasis, as even if the treble isn't emphasized, more mids might also give it that 'piercing' 'quality'; same as bass being bit lower volume than mids/highs... Then there's neutral; bass/mids/highs are balanced. Warm is opposite of bright with more bass & less mids/treble.

Yes though many comment on them being bright, I have never found them to be bright at all.

Wow these are pretty strong words... Older version of 400i I'm guessing? Oh well you can read from the last few pages, but again listening to them & comparing them to Q701, there is definitely at least a hint of brightness on the 400i, unless it's sample variance and all of that. But again I guess it depends what your reference is. My 2 cents; although the Q701 have been described as bright sounding, to me they sound less bright than the 400i; the 400i has a more mid/high emphasis, and although the bass is present, it is definitely less present than Q701 for instance, in relation to its mids/highs. If you're listening to say vocals which have some hint of brightness/harshness, the 400i will represent it very clearly and when compared to Q701 the Q701 will sound less harsh/smoother. Same would go vs K550, Bosshifi B8, etc.

To me the 400i definitely sounds a tad bit brighter than it sounds warmer. It's somewhat close to neutral, but imho, definitely bright leaning.

(starting around here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/hifiman-he-400i-impressions-and-discussion.698974/page-816, and to continue the discussion.. heh)

And related to the other: I don't think the soundstage is the issue at play here, it should have the vice versa effect on the bass, and perhaps its relative position matters more; if its further back, and unnaturally wide: the bass doesn't have the same impact/feel if the soundstage is narrow and closer to you/in your head. Think about where you would stand/sit related to the orchesta/band, and what kind of a venue/placement it'd be.

I thought the Q701 had more bass for the first weeks I had the 400i, as it was my first planar, and it took my brain to accommodate mainly on how the sound is being generated. The so-called brain burn in on the technical side, (not to mention how it takes a while for your brain to accommodate and get accustomed to the wholly different FR), is quite a task for your brain. The airwaves no longer comes from a directed small cone to your ear: but from a larger vibrating plane. My suggestion to actually get past this brain burn in, is listen to them, and nothing else for a couple of weeks.

I don't think this really applies with headphones as you really don't have a forward/backward soundstage in headphones like you do speakers... With headphones for me it's really mainly inside your head and left/right, with sometimes sounds seeming to come from top or the back, but for me at least, the sound coming from the front really doesn't work for my ears/brain, which is why I had some trouble adjusting to headphones at first. Basically nothing in front, just in your head...

So yeah for me, for the bass balance, front/rear simply does not apply, and I really have to go with SPL; bass vs mids vs treble.. And in those terms, there's just no way you can say the 400i doesn't have a bit more mids/treble than bass...

I thought the Q701 had more bass for the first weeks I had the 400i, as it was my first planar, and it took my brain to accommodate mainly on how the sound is being generated. The so-called brain burn in on the technical side, (not to mention how it takes a while for your brain to accommodate and get accustomed to the wholly different FR), is quite a task for your brain. The airwaves no longer comes from a directed small cone to your ear: but from a larger vibrating plane. My suggestion to actually get past this brain burn in, is listen to them, and nothing else for a couple of weeks.

Additionally, the thing with dynamics drivers, (excluding the latest tech) in general: as they technically cannot push out the sub-bass, there's a hump in the mid-bass accentuating our perception of the bass. It's basically always there, in its relation to the sub-bass roll off, the amount just differs depending on the can.

So... Do you just ignore this bass 'boost' and claim dynamic headphones don't have more bass? That would go against logic; like a woman with a D cups and a woman with B cups, and then you'd be claiming that they have the same size breasts because the woman with D cups has implants and that just augments her breast size... Well yeah...! That's the point!

If it's highly pronounced, it's probably viewed as a 'basshead' can, and it does indeed "its job" for the most genres where people crave for bass. It doesn't mean that it recreates the bass technically well or accurately, and certainly doesn't work for all the genres. I could point you out to some IDM goodness - basically I can't even listen to most of the EDM stuff, as the sub-bass is either wholly forgotten; most likely due to production issues, as the texture there might be hard to hear, or haven't been heard at all whilst producing the track - works well if you can't hear the flaws.

Well, to state the obvious, there's also the amount of bass; some headphones have just more pronounced bass/mids/treble, and in absolute terms, imho, the 400i has a brighter sound than Q701... hehe, I don't know going back and forth, when there's more mids/highs, and the highs are much more pronounced compared to the bass, I have to say it's brighter!

Again, I've had the 400i on my head for a good 45m, currently listening to Pink Floyd's Any Colour you like, this track definitely doesn't have a bright sound in any sort of way, it's really more of a mid/bass reverby/dark sound, definitely no inherently bright/harsh sound to it, and the overall 'vibe' of the song is definitely not in the 'bright' range, definitely what I'd describe as a 'dark' overall sound... And again, by putting on the Q701, instantly, the sound takes on a darker character; the warm sounding reverb is made more present and enveloping, and the guitar and all just gets pushed a little bit more into that 'dark' sound... Going back to 400i; everything sounds 'brighter', the dark enveloping reverb sound 'shrinks', the guitar gets more present, and the sound presentation clearly takes on a brighter/more lively presentation.

And again, there's a difference on how the driver creates the bass, dynamic drivers have this snappier thump/kick which the planars do not have. It's been covered here before, the description varies: but it's related on how the air is being moved from a technical standpoint. Depending on the description, you might even assume that planars lack the bass impact/slam; it's not the case, it's just generated differently, and its feel overall differs. I've described my LCD-X for example having face-melting qualities in that department.

Yeah I definitely wouldn't say the 400i lack impact. My main issue is that to get the same 'weight', or bass slam, as you do on the Q701, the 400i has to be on a much louder volume, and then the mids/highs are just again so much louder. Which again translates to brighter sound. Ex: Pink Floyd's Eclipse on Q701, at the start of the track, the drums are much more pronounced than the synth & guitar, and the dark reverb sound is very significant. Going to the 400i, the cymbals instantly become a lot more evident, so is the synth + guitars, and the dark reverb/echo sound has definitely 'shrunk' overall, sound became less dark, even the vocals are more present, the sound has definitely taken a brighter character.

So if you're going back and forth between 400i & Q701, to me this is clear as day and simply isn't even in the debatable category, that the 400i sound brighter! Not really to the Grado extent or whatnot, but to me someone who says they sound 'bright' is definitely more correct than someone who would say that they sound warm/dark...

So yeah, for me at least, bright songs definitely gets me reaching for the Q701 to tame the harshness/brightness... But YMMV!

 

[mandrake50]

It is all very relative. Well written post BTW. Keep in mind that I have never listened to the Q701, so I have no way to compare the two. I have also read the statements that the 400i is bright, but have not been able to reconcile this with my experience. I was using them with electronics that have been judged to be a bit more on the mellow side. Except my (now gone) magni2 /Modi 2. Using the Liquid Carbon with various DACs or the H10 just don't make me think the headphones are bright. Yes my 400i are the first iteration. Also, I am coming from using different headphones than you probably are. For instance I do not find them bright at all compared the the 560. They are a bit brighter than the HD600, for sure.

In any case, I can only report my perception and that in relation to my frame of reference for comparisons, and gear.. not to mention my choice of program material. All of which need to be considered. Taking all of that into consideration, and notwithstanding other opinions, I just cannot label the 400i as a bright headphone.

Obviously MY mileage does vary on this one.

 

[Little Bear]

In any case, I can only report my perception and that in relation to my frame of reference for comparisons, and gear.. not to mention my choice of program material. All of which need to be considered. Taking all of that into consideration, and notwithstanding other opinions, I just cannot label the 400i as a bright headphone.

Obviously MY mileage does vary on this one.

I think everyone's mileage varies to one extent or another. It's probably not useful to say that headphone x is bright or dark or warm or whatever, except in comparison to headphone y. The frequency response of our ears varies somewhat from person to person as well, making subjective impressions hard to trust.

 

[mandrake50]

I think everyone's mileage varies to one extent or another. It's probably not useful to say that headphone x is bright or dark or warm or whatever, except in comparison to headphone y. The frequency response of our ears varies somewhat from person to person as well, making subjective impressions hard to trust.

Absolutely. I have only one frame of reference and that is my personal auditory perceptual system.. which is influenced by many things, including all of the possible biases and the total of my listening experience.

There is also the often discussed unit to unit production variations that occur within the same model. Even more so over time with undocumented production changes. If we judge by reports, Hifiman may have more of this than other manufactures.

Which all goes to prove what is said so often, the only way to decide whether a headphone, or any other piece of audio gear, is right for you, is to listen to it.
It is a shame that some people are not in a position to do this. In this case it is always good to try to read many, many reviews. Look for reviews from people that have a history of doing reviews that match with what you hear. Then decide based on this, and hope.

 

[DavidA]

Absolutely. I have only one frame of reference and that is my personal auditory perceptual system.. which is influenced by many things, including all of the possible biases and the total of my listening experience.

There is also the often discussed unit to unit production variations that occur within the same model. Even more so over time with undocumented production changes. If we judge by reports, Hifiman may have more of this than other manufactures.

Which all goes to prove what is said so often, the only way to decide whether a headphone, or any other piece of audio gear, is right for you, is to listen to it.
It is a shame that some people are not in a position to do this. In this case it is always good to try to read many, many reviews. Look for reviews from people that have a history of doing reviews that match with what you hear. Then decide based on this, and hope.

Well said and agree with you about everyone hearing differently and the only way to tell if you will like the sound is to hear it yourself. You have a great point in trying to find those that have similar impression to you to give a good validation to a review.

 

[marhol]

Absolutely. I have only one frame of reference and that is my personal auditory perceptual system.. which is influenced by many things, including all of the possible biases and the total of my listening experience.

There is also the often discussed unit to unit production variations that occur within the same model. Even more so over time with undocumented production changes. If we judge by reports, Hifiman may have more of this than other manufactures.

Which all goes to prove what is said so often, the only way to decide whether a headphone, or any other piece of audio gear, is right for you, is to listen to it.
It is a shame that some people are not in a position to do this. In this case it is always good to try to read many, many reviews. Look for reviews from people that have a history of doing reviews that match with what you hear. Then decide based on this, and hope.

I agree with mandrake50 here as well. My HE-400i is with the backplate, completely in the stock form. I´ve heard my HE-400i with various sources and head amps and I stand by my first impression - for me HE-400i with the backplate is a very slightly warm/neutral headphone. Certainly warmer than HE-560, HE-6 or HD 800 for instance. Sorry I haven´t heard Q701 or HE-400i without the backplate. But as far as I know (from various impressions here or other forums) newer HE-400i seems to have a bit larger soundstage
slightly less sub bass and a bit brighter overall sound signature.

 

[drwlf]

The focus A pad was developed to mimic the effects of the Jerg pad. It has a soft material on the inside with holes in it. The intent is to reduce reflections. The focus A is my pad of choice for both the 400i and the 560.

You're talking about stock Focuspads, not the A:s, as they're the ones with velour insides.

 

[drwlf]

My 2 cents; although the Q701 have been described as bright sounding, to me they sound less bright than the 400i; the 400i has a more mid/high emphasis, and although the bass is present, it is definitely less present than Q701 for instance, in relation to its mids/highs.

...
I don't think this really applies with headphones as you really don't have a forward/backward soundstage in headphones like you do speakers... With headphones for me it's really mainly inside your head and left/right, with sometimes sounds seeming to come from top or the back, but for me at least, the sound coming from the front really doesn't work for my ears/brain, which is why I had some trouble adjusting to headphones at first. Basically nothing in front, just in your head...

So yeah for me, for the bass balance, front/rear simply does not apply, and I really have to go with SPL; bass vs mids vs treble.. And in those terms, there's just no way you can say the 400i doesn't have a bit more mids/treble than bass...
...

So... Do you just ignore this bass 'boost' and claim dynamic headphones don't have more bass? That would go against logic; like a woman with a D cups and a woman with B cups, and then you'd be claiming that they have the same size breasts because the woman with D cups has implants and that just augments her breast size... Well yeah...! That's the point!


Well, to state the obvious, there's also the amount of bass; some headphones have just more pronounced bass/mids/treble, and in absolute terms, imho, the 400i has a brighter sound than Q701... hehe, I don't know going back and forth, when there's more mids/highs, and the highs are much more pronounced compared to the bass, I have to say it's brighter!

Again, I've had the 400i on my head for a good 45m, currently listening to Pink Floyd's Any Colour you like, this track definitely doesn't have a bright sound in any sort of way, it's really more of a mid/bass reverby/dark sound, definitely no inherently bright/harsh sound to it, and the overall 'vibe' of the song is definitely not in the 'bright' range, definitely what I'd describe as a 'dark' overall sound... And again, by putting on the Q701, instantly, the sound takes on a darker character; the warm sounding reverb is made more present and enveloping, and the guitar and all just gets pushed a little bit more into that 'dark' sound... Going back to 400i; everything sounds 'brighter', the dark enveloping reverb sound 'shrinks', the guitar gets more present, and the sound presentation clearly takes on a brighter/more lively presentation.


Yeah I definitely wouldn't say the 400i lack impact. My main issue is that to get the same 'weight', or bass slam, as you do on the Q701, the 400i has to be on a much louder volume, and then the mids/highs are just again so much louder. Which again translates to brighter sound. Ex: Pink Floyd's Eclipse on Q701, at the start of the track, the drums are much more pronounced than the synth & guitar, and the dark reverb sound is very significant. Going to the 400i, the cymbals instantly become a lot more evident, so is the synth + guitars, and the dark reverb/echo sound has definitely 'shrunk' overall, sound became less dark, even the vocals are more present, the sound has definitely taken a brighter character.

So if you're going back and forth between 400i & Q701, to me this is clear as day and simply isn't even in the debatable category, that the 400i sound brighter! Not really to the Grado extent or whatnot, but to me someone who says they sound 'bright' is definitely more correct than someone who would say that they sound warm/dark...

So yeah, for me at least, bright songs definitely gets me reaching for the Q701 to tame the harshness/brightness... But YMMV!

Although the HRTF differs from people to people aka. we hear things differently, none of the FR measurements posted online in various places support your theses, generally speaking.
400i has the 6-9k peaks, which can and will cause problems for some listeners, but overall the Q701 is peakier, and the sub bass roll off is horrendous. Hence, I cannot comprehend your comparison of Q701 having "more" bass presence than the 400i. If your definition for bass stops at 100hz, and we're not talking about the common dynamic driver mid-bass hump, and we can exclude unit variance/broken drivers, I'm truly at loss about your perception. Sic.

About your comments regarding the soundstage, I cannot take them too seriously. Kind of negates a lot of technical discussion regarding headphones?

About the women and their breasts, I don't get it at all.

The comparison with the Pink Floyd track, and your "perception" can be explained by many other things: openness of the cans, the soundstage positioning, and the technical differences with the driver, e.g. the impulse response, attack/decay properties, micro/macro detail extraction, distortion/harmonics. The track does sound more fluid on the Q701, but dark, not by a long shot.

As I said, there's a difference how dynamic drivers and planars move the air. The common dynamic driver mid-bass hump along with sub-bass roll off doesn't translate to good bass in my books, even though it can be enjoyable. As I said, it's accentuated and artificial - your brain most likely interprets it as "more" bass, similar to a feeling a Subpac does with headphones.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I loved the 400i, warm no, bright no, not to my ears. If anything it would be going towards bright as opposed to warm, but I couldn't say I felt it reached either extreme to any great extent. If you want to hear a dynamic driver do sub bass very well the MDR Z1R nails it pretty darn well and without an overbearing mid bass hump overtop as well (although it is elevated from neutral for sure).